The AI-1 Dreadnought Project Pt.2 - Upgrade to 1000VA Transformer

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Comments

  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,490
    edited March 2012
    I wouldn't concern yourself too much about it. Plitron makes very good transformers and as I have said, there is no better alternative (that I know of). Plitron toroids are used in a number of well respected companies' audio gear. I think the results will be very good! the question is, will they be as good as the Avel Lindberg transformer Ray and Larry bought? Or better?:eek::wink::cool:


    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,541
    edited March 2012
    I placed an order for the Jantzen perfect lay inductors today. I also ordered Jantzen 0.4 mH 22 AWG, 1.25 mH 20 AWG ( part #1137, $5.63 each) and 2.50 mH AWG inductors (part #1695, $6.61) for my three pairs of CRS+'s. Solen does not offer a perfect lay 0.4 mH, 1.25 mH or 2.50 mH perfect lay inductor.

    Bev Ruggiero at Parts Express said my parts should arrive sooner than 8 weeks because they are preparing a large order from Jantzen and will tack my order on to theirs.


    I received an email that these have shipped!!!!
  • RickTfromAZRickTfromAZ Posts: 122
    edited March 2012
    That's Great Larry! I didn't know that you had placed an order. Now we get two reviews! Here's Hoping for the Best.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,671
    edited March 2012
    The Jantzen 0.65 mH/26 AWG/ inductors were not appropriate substitutes for the 0.7 mH/25 AWG original inductors. There were detrimental bass effects: loss of weight, detail, and articulation. Tactile sensation was also diminished. Vocals and solo instruments in the center also appeared to move backward a couple of feet. I thought (hoped) these would work since the Jantzen part is within 7% of the original part's nominal value and the Jantzen part's DCR is within 4% of the original part. The original 0.7 mH inductors were reinstalled.

    The Jantzen 0.4 mH/22 AWG inductors provided a little more detail, particularly with vocals, than the original 0.4 mH/22 AWG inductors.

    Details coming later in a separate thread.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,541
    edited March 2012
    Waiting!!!:wink:


    I have mine but it will be a couple weeks before I have time to install them...
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,541
    edited March 2012
    Need more popcorn!!!:wink:
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited March 2012
    Plitron shipped today, tracking does not show a delivery date yet but will post when it is available.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,671
    edited March 2012
    The Jantzen 0.65 mH/26 AWG/ inductors were not appropriate substitutes for the 0.7 mH/25 AWG original inductors. The original 0.7 mH inductors were reinstalled.
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    I have mine but it will be a couple weeks before I have time to install them...

    I am going to order some 0.75 mH Jantzen inductors (26 AWG, 1.80 ohm DCR) and unwind them to 0.7 mH. My report will be submitted after I have tried the unwound 0.75 mH inductors.

    The Jantzen perfect lay inductors appear to be comparable in performance and construction to the Solen perfect lay inductors. The Jantzen inductors sounded harsh in the highs and smeared in the bass upon first listening. The sound significantly improved after a few hours of play time. I did not condition the Jantzen inductors on the Cable Cooker as I did with the Solens. I didn't feel like going through the numerous removal and install iterations.

    In contrast to the Jantzens, the Solens sounded better than the original inductors right from the beginning and got better with time. I replaced all of the on-board inductors (0.4 mH, 1.25 mH and 2.5 mH) in my three pairs of CRS+'s with equivalent Jantzen parts and I replaced the two 0.4 mH inductors in the high frequency section of my 1.2TL's with Jantzen parts.
    thsmith wrote: »
    Plitron shipped today, tracking does not show a delivery date yet but will post when it is available.

    OK. Thanks.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited March 2012
    thsmith wrote: »
    Plitron shipped today, tracking does not show a delivery date yet but will post when it is available.

    Shows arriving March 28, I will turn it around asap to Ray.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • RickTfromAZRickTfromAZ Posts: 122
    edited March 2012
    I am going to order some 0.75 mH Jantzen inductors (26 AWG, 1.80 ohm DCR) and unwind them to 0.7 mH. My report will be submitted after I have tried the unwound 0.75 mH inductors.

    Good idea. It's going to be interesting to see where the DCR ends up.
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,541
    edited March 2012
    What about winding more to the 0.65 to get the 0.7 ??
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited March 2012
    Plitron arrived today and will get in the mail to Ray Saturday. 2 suprises, 1 was the $25 brokerage fee and 2 it fits my enclosure as by their specs it would be too tall.

    DSCN2093.JPG
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,541
    edited March 2012
    Great!!!

    How many wires does it have coming out of it?
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited March 2012
    10 Larry, I was real happy to see it fits the enclosure.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,671
    edited March 2012
    thsmith wrote: »
    Plitron arrived today and will get in the mail to Ray Saturday. 2 suprises, 1 was the $25 brokerage fee and 2 it fits my enclosure as by their specs it would be too tall.

    The spec I posted listed a height of 80mm (3.15") and diameter of 165mm (6.5") for the Plitron 6166. I assume your case is 4" tall?
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,671
    edited March 2012
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    What about winding more to the 0.65 to get the 0.7 ??

    That's not something I'd want to get into. I would have to acquire the exact same wire, solder it to the existing leads, neatly wind it, then glue it in place.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited March 2012
    It is Ray, maybe my MM to Inches conversion was off.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,541
    edited March 2012
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    thsmith wrote: »
    10 Larry, I was real happy to see it fits the enclosure.

    I was happy as well, Have fun putting it together once Ray gets done fondling it for a few days. :-)

    I'm looking forward to his findings..
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 14,541
    edited March 2012
    That's not something I'd want to get into. I would have to acquire the exact same wire, solder it to the existing leads, neatly wind it, then glue it in place.

    I purchased an extra one this is why I asked your thoughts on doing so. They are not very expensive so I wouldn't be out much if I did it.. :-)
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited March 2012
    The spec I posted listed a height of 80mm (3.15") and diameter of 165mm (6.5") for the Plitron 6166. I assume your case is 4" tall?
    Ray, here are the specs from their site which are obviously incorrect. Hope that is not a bad sign.

    Height: 117.5 mm
    Width: 250.8 mm
    Length: 250.8 mm

    http://shop.plitron.com/shopexd.asp?id=317
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,490
    edited March 2012
    At least the specs that Ray will measure and give us will be accurate. Looking forward to your measurements Ray. Appreciate you guys doing this for us.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • fjrossfjross Posts: 183
    edited March 2012
    thsmith wrote: »
    Plitron arrived today and will get in the mail to Ray Saturday. 2 suprises, 1 was the $25 brokerage fee and 2 it fits my enclosure as by their specs it would be too tall.

    DSCN2093.JPG
    So the brokerage fee was added to the $305.00 that you where quoted originally for a total of $330.00 shipped? The reason I asked is that Melonie from Avel Lindburg is going to see how much a minimum run of (10) AV-1000 units would cost to custom run. The results of Rays test would sway me if the sound of the Piltron was superior to the A-L. Depending on price and the results of the Piltron, I would like to see how many people might be intrested in the AV 1000va if we needed to get 10 sold.
    Mcintosh MC-501 mono blocks
    Mcintosh C-45
    Mcintosh MVP-871
    PS AUDIO AV5000
    MIT 3.3 Shotgun biwire speaker interface
    MIT 3.3 Shotgun XLR interconnects
    Polk 2.3TL's Gimpod boards/F-1 modded crossovers/dynamat/JB weld/Larry's rings/Blackhole 5 strips
    Polk 3.1 TL's mint/stock (purchased new)
    Polk SDA-2's
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited March 2012
    That's correct.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited March 2012
    Plitron is in the mail on it's way to Ray.

    Question for everyone that has built one and used Dynamat, Do you dynamat under the transformer or let it sit on top of enclosure and put dynamat around it?
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,671
    edited March 2012
    thsmith wrote: »
    Question for everyone that has built one and used Dynamat, Do you dynamat under the transformer or let it sit on top of enclosure and put dynamat around it?

    See figure 3 near the beginning of this thread.

    See post #33 of the following thread:

    The-AI-1-Dreadnought-Project-Pt.1/page2
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • thsmiththsmith Posts: 6,092
    edited March 2012
    Thanks DK, that's what I figured but wanted to double check. I am already to go when the Plitron returns.

    Do you have any expectations how the Plitron will compare to the ones you have tested?
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
  • headrottheadrott Posts: 5,490
    edited March 2012
    fjross wrote: »
    So the brokerage fee was added to the $305.00 that you where quoted originally for a total of $330.00 shipped? The reason I asked is that Melonie from Avel Lindburg is going to see how much a minimum run of (10) AV-1000 units would cost to custom run. The results of Rays test would sway me if the sound of the Piltron was superior to the A-L. Depending on price and the results of the Piltron, I would like to see how many people might be intrested in the AV 1000va if we needed to get 10 sold.

    Would it actually be the AV-047528? Or just a 1KVA transformer with the potted center and a magnetic screen on it?

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....


    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,671
    edited March 2012
    thsmith wrote: »
    Do you have any expectations how the Plitron will compare to the ones you have tested?

    No.
    headrott wrote: »
    Would it actually be the AV-047528? Or just a 1KVA transformer with the potted center and a magnetic screen on it?

    That is a good question which should be asked of A-L.
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • transmastertransmaster Posts: 428
    edited April 2012
    I happen to know Sunair which makes commercial general coverage receivers, and transceivers use these toroidal transformers in their power supplies. I have a couple of their receivers this transformer, at least dimensionally is identical I have no idea was there spec's are.
    Radio Station W7ITC
  • transmastertransmaster Posts: 428
    edited April 2012
    dup post
    Radio Station W7ITC
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