Audiophile vs. Listener
Must one be an audiophile to enjoy 2-3k speakers, and matching high end components? By this I mean would someone who enjoys listening to music enjoy say $500. speakers, and a $300 receiver just as much? Does the average listener get as much out of high end gear to justify the cost, vs. an audiophile?
Post edited by mara5 on
Comments
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If you sit down and actually listen to music, then yes. If your just partying with your buddies, probably not. By that i don't mean to say you can't enjoy the music.
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No, you don't need to be an audio nerd to enjoy music. They are 2 different (although sometimes connected) concepts. You can thoroughly enjoy driving, without being a car nut, no?Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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That sums it up well Steve. I've invested pretty close to 5k this past year (everything in sig is less than a year old). Hate to say it, but strictly due to conveneince, I probably get more use from my phone for music then I get from my stereo. Granted, I'm not home alot - but sometimes it just feels good to get yourself something nice from time to time.65" Sony X900 (XBR-65X900E)
Pioneer Elite SC-37
Polk Monitor 70's (2)
Polk Monitor 40's (4)
Polk Monitor CS2
Polk DSW Pro 660wi
Oppo BDP-93
Squeezebox Duet
Belkin PureAV PF60
Dish Network "The Hoppa" -
If one can sit through the entirety of Jazz at the Pawnshop and claim to have enjoyed the experience - one is probably an audiophile.
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mhardy6647 wrote: »If one can sit through the entirety of Jazz at the Pawnshop and claim to have enjoyed the experience - one is probably an audiophile.
Either that, or a ****. Actually, I do not mind disk 2, so I guess that makes me a half-a$$ audiophile. :rolleyes:Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
It's a good question.
When gear is good and I can sit and listen to the music , then yeah it really doesn't matter what it costs or how high end Audiophile it is. I enjoy my rig but enjoy my house system as well. I have In wall and In ceiling speakers everywhere in my house. I have Outdoor speakers on my deck and I can sit in the bath , Deck , be in my garage , lay in my bed , take a shower etc and enjoy what I'm listening to.
What happens to most is they study the gear and it's flaws. They look for holes and try to fix them. I know as I have done this most of my life. But when you find gear you love the way it sounds , it really doesn't matter it's price.
I loved every single system I ever built and most of them are not Audiophile grade systems. Some where / are but everyone has a wallet limit and you do what you can do with the funds you have. When you have kids , home , 2 cars , wife , etc sometimes your dream system gets put on hold. You build what you can. But when you sit down and listen to your favorite music and get lost in the music is when the magic happens. This can be had at any price my friend.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Most people should be able to hear the difference at that level if they allow themselves to get into the music and listen with a consistent attention. But as chumlie says, if it's just background music for conversation, party, or ribald drinking--then that's a problem.
I suggest keeping on eye on this site for mini-Polk regional meetings and looking for one close to you--then drop by and get your 'listen' on. Like Steve says above, you can certainly 'feel' the difference between a Yugo and a High Performance sedan when you're driving them.
On another matter, Mark has a point above, but perhaps one that is too esoteric for the question asked?
Dan also has a point. As I thoroughly enjoy many of my vintage receivers and speakers even though they may not be quite as resolving as my "best" equipment!
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
I am not an "audiophile", but I think I have a good ear. This is funny because I have been tossing around the idea of changing my SL2000s with RT0-198s on my RTA8ts. I have heard great things about the tweeter upgrade, but after listening to Nora Jones on the SL2000s, well, it just seems that these tweeters were made for her. Not that she is all I listen to, but to change and not get that "warm fuzzy" would suck just the same, even if other things sounded better.
Guess its a toss up. Good thing about these tweets is that they are plug and play and could switch back pretty easily.
After getting a lot more power, I am falling in loving in love with my 23 year old speakers all over again. The SL2000s dont bother me in any way shape or form. -
I've never had a problem listening to my 21 year old RTA-8Ts with the original tweeter either. And after putting more power to them, the thoughts of upgrading them went by the wayside.
I simply enjoy my music & movies, without trying to make it a chore or a religious experience.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
This is funny because I have been tossing around the idea of changing my SL2000s with RT0-198s on my RTA8ts. I have heard great things about the tweeter upgrade, but after listening to Nora Jones on the SL2000s, well, it just seems that these tweeters were made for her.
You'll enjoy Nora a lot more with the RD0194-1's, I guarantee it.
FYI, you can't use RD0198-1's in your speakers.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Must one be an audiophile to enjoy 2-3k speakers, and matching high end components? By this I mean would someone who enjoys listening to music enjoy say $500. speakers, and a $300 receiver just as much? Does the average listener get as much out of high end gear to justify the cost, vs. an audiophile?
Once you have experienced better gear, listening to less is rather pointless unless it's background noise in which case it probably doesn't matter much.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I think that if you are an audiophile your gona have to break your bank for a system and max out what you can afford to move up the ladder
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I think that if you are an audiophile your gona have to break your bank for a system and max out what you can afford to move up the ladder
WTF does that mean?If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money. -
You'll enjoy Nora a lot more with the RD0194-1's, I guarantee it.
FYI, you can't use RD0198-1's in your speakers.
Thanks F1. I always get them confused. Guarantee eh? You're making it tough not to do this. -
well, you can always switch them back out if you don't like them.
IMHO, the whole reason for this hobby is to enjoy the music. if you think you have to spend a ton of coin to do that, you may be misguided. But you will get more enjoyment out of better gear, if you are listening to the music. Better details, more precise imaging, increased attack, finite decay, etc etc...
It's just that you get into diminishing returns the higher up the food chain you go. You're chasing after the last couple of percent of perfection, and it costs. You don't have to go there. Again this is just my humble 2 cents. -
Must one be an audiophile to enjoy 2-3k speakers, and matching high end components? By this I mean would someone who enjoys listening to music enjoy say $500. speakers, and a $300 receiver just as much? Does the average listener get as much out of high end gear to justify the cost, vs. an audiophile?
That all depends on what floats your boat. Generaly speaking, the answer to your question is Yes, but, the only way to truely get a handle on it is to go listen to some other gear first and then justify the costs in your head. If you never heard better, then 500 buck speakers and a 300 buck avr is primo.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
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Kitchen
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Grant Fidelity tube dac
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lsi 9's -
Must one be an audiophile to enjoy 2-3k speakers, and matching high end components? By this I mean would someone who enjoys listening to music enjoy say $500. speakers, and a $300 receiver just as much? Does the average listener get as much out of high end gear to justify the cost, vs. an audiophile?
Just to stir the pot....
The average listener is akin to the average wine drinker who likes a wine but can't tell you why and isn't generally interested in delving deeper than that.
Generally speaking, as one is motivated to listen to higher end gear and asks/investigates why higher end gear offers a better sonic experience, the one learns more to appreciate what can be achieved.
I would concede the point that there is a diminshing return on cost vs sound, but even then, to those in pursuit of getting that incremental improvement it is worth the cost.
I would also say that better gear will reveal sonics in music that can offer more than just the 'wow' factor for good sound - it can enable one to actually enjoy/appreciate the music even more.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
I think Audiophile & Listener are pretty much one & the same thing...except the audiophile spends so much time with their head's up their **** that they never really get to listen. With them it's all about uber gear or it just can't sound any good. Typical audio B.S."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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I think that a "listener" is someone who enjoys the music as it comes.PC,car stereo,boombox,etc.My wife is like this and enjoys the hell out of her pop country and '80's hair bands when she listens.
An audiophile IMHO is a "listener" that wants the music to always sound the best it possibly can.And continually strives to get it to sound better.We all listen to music,we audiophiles just prefer to listen to it at it's best possible quality.Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC
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I’M OFFENDED!!!! -
Must one be an audiophile to enjoy 2-3k speakers, and matching high end components?
Probably, who else would put in that effort and money?
By this I mean would someone who enjoys listening to music enjoy say $500. speakers, and a $300 receiver just as much?
I don't think so.
Does the average listener get as much out of high end gear to justify the cost, vs. an audiophile?
No, I think it maybe just more expensive background noise. -
:mad:JHC! I just blew Gatoraide all over my monitor! Don't do that Phil!
pearsall001 wrote: »I think Audiophile & Listener are pretty much one & the same thing...except the audiophile spends so much time with their head's up their **** that they never really get to listen. With them it's all about uber gear or it just can't sound any good. Typical audio B.S.Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
But when you sit down and listen to your favorite music and get lost in the music is when the magic happens. This can be had at any price my friend.
Very well said.
Personally I look at the amount of money some people spend on their systems with disdain, as an electronic audio system at any price is a poor substitute for a live performance. As a performing classical tympanist I may be a bit biased in that regard, but I am steadfast in my opinion that no amount of electronic gear can reproduce the sounds produced by a hall full of million-dollar violins, woodwinds hand-crafted from African mpingo, and of course sheets of copper hammered into tympani covered by calf-skin heads, all played by musicians with the passion and dedication to make a career from doing so.
Now, that said, I will admit that I do spend more on audio gear than anyone else I know. But to me, there comes a point of greatly diminishing returns--a point where one can no longer rationalize the cost of an upgrade with a commensurate improvement in sound. Perhaps it is my own perception of the word, but to me, an "audiophile" is one who has not only made a hobby out of upgrading their audio gear, but one who is addicted to it... And addiction is never a good thing. Once the addiction sets in, people will spend obscene amounts of money on "upgrades" that have absolutely no effect on sound whatsoever, giving rise to a snake-oil salesman's wet dream of a market. A market, for example, where one can simply give a name like "VibraPortal Galaxirius" to a glob of hardened putty, couple it with some vague but ridiculous claims it will have on your audio gear and sell it for hundreds of dollars. For these reasons I do not consider the word "audiophile" to be a compliment by any means. I generally equate the word to someone who has more dollars than sense.
One must never underestimate the power of persuasion of marketing coupled with the placebo effect. If you can't pick out the difference in a double-blind test, then as far as you are concerned, no difference exists. If no one or no thing can tell the difference in a double-blind test, then no difference exists, period. Either way, you certainly should not pay for it. Unfortunately the audiophile market has had a spillover effect on the consumer market, and there are what I would consider snake-oil products that you can find in your local big-box electronics store.
My advice? Same as with most purchasing decisions. Set your budget first, and spend your money on things that you prefer, not things that someone else tries to convince you that you should prefer. I do not mean to say that one should not seek any guidance at all, but merely to look at every claimed upgrade with a skeptic's eye--or ear, in this case. Caveat emptor. The final purchasing decision should always be left to an audition in your own listening space.
And as mantis said, regardless of what your budget is, you can build a system you will be quite happy with.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
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Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII -
@mara,
I agree with everyone here ... but I'll give my take as well.
If you enjoy music - whatever it is - jazz, rock, classical, trip hop, etc. - it probably doesn't matter what you're listening to it on. All of us started somewhere right? I had a JVC boombox in college and then just my computer and some Logitech Z5500s. I enjoyed the same music I enjoy now back then too. (similar to what Keiko's saying).
If you pick up some nice gear -things we all learn about here on CP - amps, DACs, speakers, cables, etc. - and feel like your favorite songs sound even better, then it's a win. I personally have not had as much time lately to just sit and listen - usually working or reading and it's background. I'm house sitting for my parents at the moment and I've been listening to my dad's little squeezebox radio while I worked on a class project. It works and the songs are the same - but damn I miss my rigs. If you get that feeling ever, then it's worth the $$
The average Joe just doesn't know about all this stuff - so it's less about ignorance.
A 'Matrix' analogy pops into my head. But no. I won't do it
ALL BOXED UP for a while until I save up for a new place
Home Theater:
KEF Q900s / MIT Shotgun S3 / MIT CVT2 ICs | KEF Q600C | Polk FXi5 | BJC Wire | Signal / AQ ICs | Shunyata / Pangea PCs | Pioneer Elite SC 57 | Parasound NC2100 Pre | NAD M25 | Marantz SA8001 | Schiit Gungnir DAC | SB Touch
2 Channel:
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Like I said, if you never heard better, then it doesn't exist in your brain. If you never tried those fur lined slippers from Cabela's, then your Walmart slippers are comfy enough.
Don't ask why I chose slippers as a comparison in audio....I'm getting older, cut me some slack.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
One must never underestimate the power of persuasion of marketing coupled with the placebo effect. If you can't pick out the difference in a double-blind test, then as far as you are concerned, no difference exists. If no one or no thing can tell the difference in a double-blind test, then no difference exists, period.
Double blind tests as they relate to audio are completely worthless. Do you really think that a $200.00 Japanese receiver sounds the same as a pair of Futterman OTL tube mono blocks as the results of a double blind test showed?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
If you never tried those fur lined slippers from Cabela's, then your Walmart slippers are comfy enough.
I'm wearing a pair of Cabela's right now, nothing else comes close.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Sorry I didn't quote the entire thing, but it would have made my post here harder to read. However, I want to say that that was a great post, and I wholeheartedly agree with it!A lot of good commentary.
I think you summed it up quite well. If you're really enjoying the music, the actual equipment it's played on will be of less importance. Now, that's not to say that I don't enjoy nice equipment, but I listen for the music. At work, I listen to music on a pair of inexepensive Creative powered speakers, and I thoroughly enjoy the music. At home and in the car I have some much nicer Polks (SR and LSi), and while I really do enjoy the higher sound quality, it's the music that matters.If you enjoy music - whatever it is - jazz, rock, classical, trip hop, etc. - it probably doesn't matter what you're listening to it on. All of us started somewhere right? I had a JVC boombox in college and then just my computer and some Logitech Z5500s. I enjoyed the same music I enjoy now back then too. (similar to what Keiko's saying).
I completely disagree. I think they are good for showing us what we really can and cannot hear; in other words, separating out the placebo effect from actual differences. However, if you don't believe in them, so be it.Double blind tests as they relate to audio are completely worthless.
If that's what the test showed, sure. In fact, I consider that a real complement to the designer of the tube amps. It sounds like they managed to avoid the rolling off the high end and higher distortion of that are typical of a tube amp.Do you really think that a $200.00 Japanese receiver sounds the same as a pair of Futterman OTL tube mono blocks as the results of a double blind stest showed?
I've heard tube amps, and I can see why some may like them, however, they are not my cup of tea. The rolled off highs are just too laid back for my tastes. I'll stick with my SS equipment with flat frequency response and lower distortion; well, as long as I don't overdrive the amp, which I don't. -
So you've heard one, two tube amps? I can direct you to some bright sounding tube amps if you like. Get out there a little more and you'll see your stereotype is dead wrong and most DBT's are worthless.
I've heard tube amps, and I can see why some may like them, however, they are not my cup of tea. The rolled off highs are just too laid back for my tastes. I'll stick with my SS equipment with flat frequency response and lower distortion; well, as long as I don't overdrive the amp, which I don't."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Even if that changed my opinion of tube amps, it still wouldn't change my opinion of DBT testing. Oh, and bright doesn't equal flat frequency response.So you've heard one, two tube amps? I can direct you to some bright sounding tube amps if you like. Get out there a little more and you'll see your stereotype is dead wrong and most DBT's are worthless. -
well, you can always switch them back out if you don't like them.
IMHO, the whole reason for this hobby is to enjoy the music. if you think you have to spend a ton of coin to do that, you may be misguided. But you will get more enjoyment out of better gear, if you are listening to the music. Better details, more precise imaging, increased attack, finite decay, etc etc...
It's just that you get into diminishing returns the higher up the food chain you go. You're chasing after the last couple of percent of perfection, and it costs. You don't have to go there. Again this is just my humble 2 cents.
Exactly Anthony, you said it much better than I.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
