The end of CD's debunked
Comments
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This really got side-tracked from CDs, and digital downloads, into stealing music. However, it is sort of related. Interestingly, a major reason why the record companies, and artists, hate digital downloads is because it is very easy to make perfect copies that are indistinguishable from the original. Of course, some people will say they can tell the difference, but most know that is not true.
Yep, I'd be one of those that would say I can absolutely hear a difference. Especially if it's been copied multiple times (say 10 or more of the same file). I would think if you looked at a wave form of the copied file in fine enough detail, you would see the differnce. I have not done this however. I can hear the difference without a doubt though. Anyone who believes there is a perfect transfer of any form of energy is not looking at (or listening to) reality.
Greg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee -
So if you leave your door unlocked, anyone is free to take what they want? But don't worry about your MP3 collection, worthless even for free.
Point, set, match!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
This is a very good point. My mother falls into this category, and I know that she still wants to have her music on physical media (CD). She does not want an iPod, and she doesn't like playing music on her phone, even though she has a phone that can do it. I can understand this since they did not grow up with computers and MP3 players. I believe that after that generation starts to move into the afterlife, physical media will then be phased out, but probably not before. Mind you, this is not something I really want to think about since my mother is in that category.George Grand wrote: »CD's are going away? In the land of flashing vcr clocks? I don't think so. They may go away when (as usual) the baby booms decide they've had enough, but that won't happen as long as the most important downloads in a boomer's life are still the all so important one first thing in the morning, and that lucky Viagra one.
You are correct that streaming can be low profit, but a digital download purchase has a higher profit margin. There is also more profit per song or album compared to a CD due the lower overhead costs. I honestly don't see how you come the conclusion that they would have to automatically raise the price of downloads. As far as piracy (both online and via physical media), that happens now and isn't going away. However, I don't think the percentage of piracy would change if physical media were phased out.The artist still has to make money. If the cd went away, that leaves them with low profit streaming. Highly unlikely unless bands decided to take up marketing, distribution and sales....also unlikely. They can also boost up the cost of a downloaded song to satisfy the artist, but as a consumer where does that leave you ? Toss in the worldwide web and bootlegging and there is no way a band/artist is going to make money in that fashion. There has to be either a continuation of physical media, or a huge jump in price for downloaded music. Don't see any middle ground here.
This is a valid point. However, I just don't understand what is so difficult about making a backup of your library to an external drive. Even my non-computer-savvy mother understands the purpose of backups and is able to easily manage them herself. You simply copy the library to an external drive and keep it in a safe place; so easy even my mother can do it!Because, hardware fails.
Media sticks around, is stable and tangible.
I agree with this.And your "customer base" that you are basing your thoughts on? They are a minority in the marketplace. Why? One, they have the money to pay someone like you to come in to their house and do it for them. Two, they have the money to BUY the gear in the first place. The vast majority of people out there do not have those resources available to them. Most here don't have that level of resources available to them. Most here can do for themselves out of a desire to have what they can't afford and the necessity to learn because they can't afford professional services.
First, on iTunes, it would have cost you $9.99 for the entire album, not $12. This is the way they have always done it as far as I know ($0.99 per song or $9.99 per album). That album is also $8.99 via digital download on Amazon. So, the price difference certainly isn't what you make it out to me. However, I do believe that digital downloads should be less expensive than the CD's due to the lower overhead costs, and this is a mistake that the record companies are making.Also, I'll break it down for you this way. The last CD I bought is from Gretchen Lieberum called "siren songs". On this CD, there are 11 songs. If I bought this album on iTunes it would have cost me $.99 each plus taxes and fees. It would have been about $12 in total. That's just for standard MP3 quality. It's more for the higher quality and/or lossless rips. I paid $9 at Amazon.com with free super saver shipping and no sales tax. I also have high quiality digital copies of this entire CD on my media server and my phone. I can use my digital copies in any device/system I want because I don't have to deal with DRM.
It seems like you don't understand the concept of lossless. The bitrate of a compressed lossless file (i.e. FLAC or Apple Lossless) is irrelevant. They are still lossless and contain the exact same audio data that the uncompressed WAV file had.I'm partially calling BS on this because just this past week, out of 8 different combination of artists I downloaded that claimed to be lossless rips, were not. The worst was around 800kbps and the highest was 1200-ish. How do we know those are true lossless rips? If anything, its impossible to find true lossless rips of everything.
On the other hand, if you were concerned whether they were directly encoded from a CD rip, that is a valid point. I've seen some uploads where the lossless files were encoded from a lossy file; those are worthless. What I recommend is looking for uploads where the EAC log file is included. That is a very good indicator that they were direct from a CD rip.
This is another very good point. I don't bother with CD's anymore, but I do still collect vinyl. There is certainly some amount of nostalgia to it, and it is nice sometimes to pull out a record and play it the old fashioned way.Have to agree with markmarc and inspiredsports here!
Also, as an academic and avid reader/writer I really can't imagine either my Home Office or actual office with one or two tiny hard drives and something like an ipad for all of my reading and music. The very idea of entering an antiseptic/sterile/empty space devoid of everything that reminds me of "my life's journey" is very disturbing. I have several thousand books in my home office, hundreds of CDs, tapes, LPs, etc. When I enter that inner sanctum I can "see" that I am surrounded by many of the great minds and artists of the past and present--I feel that I am "home". The feeling of satisfaction and peace that is experienced there allows me to both relax and to work with much inspiration.
I don't understand why that would be considered "cluttered" space? I would call it a "welcoming"! It also reminds me of a life in the library which has always had its 'mystery' for me--you can't instantaneously access it, it takes some "effort" and in such a moment/space that is that effort, new ideas arise--are born. But enough for now.
cnh
This concerns me as well. DRM really is more of a punishment for the honest people than anything. It prevents them from using the music freely as they could with non-copy-protected physical media, which is a deterrent to digital downloads in my opinion. On the other hand, it doesn't do anything to stop piracy. Pirates will find a way around it and still manage to make it available. DRM is just a waste of time for everyone.sucks2beme wrote: »This is my concern.
People in the music business read a thread like this.
They then conclude that DRM is very important.
They then put DRM on everything. No more copying
to your music server or making a personal copy for the car.
You now have to lug around a device like an IPOD with their
DRM rights and good luck moving it around without a DRM mishap.
You upgrade devices, and you always run the risk of blowing it all
out of the water. No reselling allowed. You own it conditionally.
However, it seems like this is slowly changing for the better. More distribution sites are starting to offer DRM-free alternatives, even iTunes. This also means that some record companies are starting to see the light. I really hope that this trend continues, and more record companies get a clue.
And you would still be incorrect.Yep, I'd be one of those that would say I can absolutely hear a difference.
The number of copies means nothing when it comes to digital formats. Nothing is lost or gained between each copy.Especially if it's been copied multiple times (say 10 or more of the same file).
You would think wrong then. In fact, it's really easy to prove to yourself! Download Audacity, which is a free audio editor. This software will allow you took at the waveforms in as much detail as you want. However, I doubt you will do this, much less come back here and admit that you were wrong.I would think if you looked at a wave form of the copied file in fine enough detail, you would see the differnce. I have not done this however. I can hear the difference without a doubt though.
I could say the same about warped version of reality. Enjoy your flat earth...Anyone who believes there is a perfect transfer of any form of energy is not looking at (or listening to) reality.
You win 1000 internets my good sir!CD says: "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated". -
CD's aren't going anywhere, for one simple fact: Greed trumps narcissism. That's why you can still find Metallica, Lady Gag-Gag, and Madonna in stores.I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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You made your points but you didn't have to be an a$$hole about it.Because, hardware fails.
Media sticks around, is stable and tangible.
And your "customer base" that you are basing your thoughts on? They are a minority in the marketplace. Why? One, they have the money to pay someone like you to come in to their house and do it for them. Two, they have the money to BUY the gear in the first place. The vast majority of people out there do not have those resources available to them. Most here don't have that level of resources available to them. Most here can do for themselves out of a desire to have what they can't afford and the necessity to learn because they can't afford professional services.
Also, I'll break it down for you this way. The last CD I bought is from Gretchen Lieberum called "siren songs". On this CD, there are 11 songs. If I bought this album on iTunes it would have cost me $.99 each plus taxes and fees. It would have been about $12 in total. That's just for standard MP3 quality. It's more for the higher quality and/or lossless rips. I paid $9 at Amazon.com with free super saver shipping and no sales tax. I also have high quiality digital copies of this entire CD on my media server and my phone. I can use my digital copies in any device/system I want because I don't have to deal with DRM.
But hey, you know all that already, don'tcha. 'Cause you know, you can see the future in your personal quest to save the world from bad audio (with iTunes digital formats) one thread at a time.
Yeah, I'll keep buying CD's and running screaming from anything that has to do with Apple/Steve Jobs.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Interesting , personally I don't think it's about the money per song or disc for me anyway. Sitting at home and purchasing a song and having it right now is worth a bit more.To get the music on the hard drive. There really isn't much available for download that I want. HD tracks has a few, but they are all titles I already have.
It's odd that people think $10 is way to much for a CD, and the music industry is ripping us off. But $20 for a download is OK? And I would never pay for lossy files like itunes, completely worthless.
iTunes does need to offer lossless music to make this transition smooth. Right now 256k is not good enough for my favorite music. I want at least CD quality or better.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Thats fine. People dedicate full rooms to media storage and are cool with that. They are also cool with going into this room , finding what they want and loading it into the player as well.inspiredsports wrote: »Maybe some people have bigger houses with more storage space?
Some like megachangers , have a few of them to hold their entire library , this works 2. I was once that person. I still have my megachanger but it's retired to the basement.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I gotta a question for all of you who still want to use the CD format, why?
If you can store all your music in one place , take up about a 12 inch or less square space , have access to all your music with a OSD or a App on your Smart phone Tablet etc , get the same or better quality in replay , have all the artwork , written notes from the artist at your finger tips , what makes you hold on?
I still buy 90% of my music on cd's, rip to hard drive in flac, and stream them throughout the house on various squeezebox's. I will buy the odd mp3 file from amazon, but mostly older music, which quality usually isn't the best anyways. After my first purchase of a squeezebox duet, it really prompted me to expand my collection, it was so convienent to listen, but still was the best quality possible.
I have bought lossless downloads from MusicGiants when they were in business, but the drm was a pain, and always had to burn to a cd to strip it, so that it may be streamed. HDTracks is a decent site, although the pricing is a bit high, but the quality is next to none. We need more sites like that before the cd goes away, if that ever truly happens. -
BTW, the best program I've found is dbpoweramp for ripping. It isn't free, cost is like $35, but it lets you do so many things with your music, it is well worth the price of admission.
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Interesting , personally I don't think it's about the money per song or disc for me anyway. Sitting at home and purchasing a song and having it right now is worth a bit more.
You must have missed this:There really isn't much available for download that I want. HD tracks has a few, but they are all titles I already have.
I see no point in downloading music I already own. 95% of my collection isn't available in lossless anyways. I may have to wait 2 days for Amazon to deliver, but it's a higher quality format, and it's usually far less per disc than itunes.iTunes does need to offer lossless music to make this transition smooth. Right now 256k is not good enough for my favorite music. I want at least CD quality or better
Doesn't matter to me what itunes does, I'll never buy ianything. -
BLAH BLAH BLAH
One thing you should get through your obtuse head is that you shouldn't tell people what their actual personal experience was if you weren't there to witness it yourself.
The rest of your babbling, I don't care about.
Oh and why don't I "just put it on an external hard drive"? Because, genius, hardware fails. You even agreed with that and then offered a hardware solution to the problem anyway. What's the matter with you?Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
You made your points but you didn't have to be an a$$hole about it.
Yes I do.
If I don't, you butt tubas take far too much license with my words and get off of trying to prove me wrong on some puny little insignificant detail while ignoring the bigger picture. I obviously wasn't enough of an a$$hole though since that happened anyway.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
One thing you should get through your obtuse head is that you shouldn't tell people what their actual personal experience was if you weren't there to witness it yourself.
So you agree that copying a digital file 10 times changes it's sound? Why should anyone let misinformation like that pass? Some things are not debatable. -
LOL! You're the first to call someone out for ignoring facts, yet you attack someone else for doing the same. You're a hypocrite, plain and simple.One thing you should get through your obtuse head is that you shouldn't tell people what their actual personal experience was if you weren't there to witness it yourself.
Why? Because I pointed out your errors and weakened your argument? How about you try something daring and admit when you are wrong. I've done it before, and I managed to survive.The rest of your babbling, I don't care about.
Anything mechanical can fail, and that includes CD players. Not to mention that the CD's themselves can get damaged, including by a bad CD player. In addition, they sometimes even go bad just from sitting due to improper sealing. Quite frankly, your argument against hardware failure doesn't really bode well, nor does it strengthen the support for CD's. Do you make a backup of all your CD's? If not, you run the risk of losing your music.Oh and why don't I "just put it on an external hard drive"? Because, genius, hardware fails. You even agreed with that and then offered a hardware solution to the problem anyway. What's the matter with you?
As for the logic behind backing up to a second (external) drive, if you can't understand that then I don't know what to tell you. It seems you are being intentionally obtuse to avoid facing the truth. -
Yet another thread flushed down the crapper...............this is what happens when good intentions meet know it alls.
Fact is that cd sales have dramtically decreased in the last 5 years and will continue to do so. If the question is as simplistic as "Will cd's be forever banished from the face of the earth?' then the answer is obviously no. But another decline in sales could realistically happen and continue to do so for a long time. The cd sections of every store that I visit now take up about 25% of the space that it did even 2 years ago. I think there is a valid point both ways, but I guess it isn't fun unless you can call people names and tell them how stupid they are.:rolleyes:Shawn
AVR: Marantz SR-5011
Center Channel: Polk LsiM706c
Front: Polk LsiM703
Rear: LSI fx
Subwoofer: SVS 20-39pci
Television: Samsung UN58NU7100FXZA
DVD Player: Sony PS4 -
It seems like you don't understand the concept of lossless. The bitrate of a compressed lossless file (i.e. FLAC or Apple Lossless) is irrelevant. They are still lossless and contain the exact same audio data that the uncompressed WAV file had.
On the other hand, if you were concerned whether they were directly encoded from a CD rip, that is a valid point. I've seen some uploads where the lossless files were encoded from a lossy file; those are worthless. What I recommend is looking for uploads where the EAC log file is included. That is a very good indicator that they were direct from a CD rip.
I invite you to educate me then. Realistically, I'm trying to grasp how a compressed lossless file retains its true unaltered sound source from a compressed file. That to me, sounds like a definition for a lossy format.
For the record, a couple of the sources I tried WERE EAC tagged but still showed a low bitrate. I am frustrated with being told what I should be knowing about these formats over my current collection which is all 128-320kbps material. So while theoretically these files I did acquire should be better, realistically their bitrate tells me they are not.
Now unless people are sources newsgroups to find this material I have no clue. However I did the whole young dumb and download everything and it certainly got me anywhere. I'm done with cutting corners. But in order to do that, your telling me my concept is wrong so show me the education on this and teach me the right stuff since what I've been shown is wrong?
I'm still firm that true lossless material doesn't exist in the download world. (Outside of HD websites offering this) -
I invite you to educate me then. Realistically, I'm trying to grasp how a compressed lossless file retains its true unaltered sound source from a compressed file. That to me, sounds like a definition for a lossy format.
It's uncompressed on playback. Like a zip file. Maybe this will help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLAC -
I invite you to educate me then. Realistically, I'm trying to grasp how a compressed lossless file retains its true unaltered sound source from a compressed file. That to me, sounds like a definition for a lossy format.
GOGGLE is you friend, I suggest you start doing some research and not get one sided info from one person.
As far as lossless compression are you familiar with a very common program called WINZIP which is typically used to compress computer files? FLAC works EXACTLY like that. If you use WINZIP to compress a report or whatever if it wasn't EXACTLY the same when you uncompress it, programs like Word or Excel would not be able to open and read the file.
If you can't really grasp that, then you have your work cut out for you to understand.
Not trying to be harsh, but it's pretty simple.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Drenis, lossless formats like FLAC, APE or Apple Lossless work similar to a ZIP or RAR file. The difference is, the type of mathematical formulas they use are more optimized for audio. This simply means they will be able to compress audio data more efficiently than ZIP or RAR.I invite you to educate me then. Realistically, I'm trying to grasp how a compressed lossless file retains its true unaltered sound source from a compressed file. That to me, sounds like a definition for a lossy format.
For the record, a couple of the sources I tried WERE EAC tagged but still showed a low bitrate. I am frustrated with being told what I should be knowing about these formats over my current collection which is all 128-320kbps material. So while theoretically these files I did acquire should be better, realistically their bitrate tells me they are not.
Now unless people are sources newsgroups to find this material I have no clue. However I did the whole young dumb and download everything and it certainly got me anywhere. I'm done with cutting corners. But in order to do that, your telling me my concept is wrong so show me the education on this and teach me the right stuff since what I've been shown is wrong?
I'm still firm that true lossless material doesn't exist in the download world. (Outside of HD websites offering this)
There are no psychoacoustic models used in lossless formats, and they do not make changes to the underlying audio data. Just like when zipping and unzipping a data file, you will get exactly the same audio data from a lossless format as what you put in. If you want to compare for yourself, there are couple of easy ways to do so. Rip a track from your CD to a WAV file, then compress it to FLAC/APE/ALAC, and uncompress it to a new WAV file. Then you can do a binary compare between the two WAV files with a file comparison utility (i.e. Beyond Compare), or you can even open them up in an audio editor (i.e. Audacity) and compare the actual waveforms. The files and the waveforms will be identical.
If your downloads included the EAC log file, and it showed no errors, you should be fine. As far as ways to get them, I am staying out of that. However, it sounds like rromeo might be willing to help you with that. -
GOGGLE is you friend, I suggest you start doing some research and not get one sided info from one person.
As far as lossless compression are you familiar with a very common program called WINZIP which is typically used to compress computer files? FLAC works EXACTLY like that. If you use WINZIP to compress a report or whatever if it wasn't EXACTLY the same when you uncompress it, programs like Word or Excel would not be able to open and read the file.
If you can't really grasp that, then you have your work cut out for you to understand.
Not trying to be harsh, but it's pretty simple.
H9
What the hell man? Most of where I learn my **** is from you so stop chewing me out.
I'm quite familiar how Winzip works. I'm not a moron. However trying to learn or execute doing things right nets these responses always.
You're a hardass just like me except I get frustrated with your responses. Yes google is my friend but for heaven sake if I read the wrong thing. I can't count on one hand how many things I've researched and asked around here to be told I'm wrong.
I'm not trying to be hard but it IS simple to ask to learn the right stuff.
/end -
BTW thanks for the education on zipping files. All someone had to say was that FLAC was unaffected when lossless rips of 1411 kbps is compressed and reverted back to a lossless state. I assumed it was purely 1411 and no compression. Who knew 900 kbps files were fine too.
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As far as ways to get them, I am staying out of that. However, it sounds like rromeo might be willing to help you with that.
When did I state that I was looking for source material to download and keep that is pure lossless? Put on some glasses. I said that I found some files (I decided to experiment with this thing called LEARNING that people do) and posted my conclusions. Thanks for pointing me out to be some criminal. -
BTW thanks for the education on zipping files. All someone had to say was that FLAC was unaffected when lossless rips of 1411 kbps is compressed and reverted back to a lossless state. I assumed it was purely 1411 and no compression. Who knew 900 kbps files were fine too.
Ummmmmmm..........that's been stated several times all over these types of threads.Who knew 900 kbps files were fine too.
What do you mean by this? FLAC uncompresses on the "fly" so the output is ALWAYS 1411kbps, never less.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I based it on this line: "Now unless people are sources newsgroups to find this material I have no clue. However I did the whole young dumb and download everything and it certainly got me anywhere."When did I state that I was looking for source material to download and keep that is pure lossless? Put on some glasses. I said that I found some files (I decided to experiment with this thing called LEARNING that people do) and posted my conclusions. Thanks for pointing me out to be some criminal.
I obviously misread it, it happens. However, I'm not going to apologize since you are clearly overreacting to the situation. Heiny9's response to you was fairly blunt, but certainly not rude. However, you decided to snap at him as well. -
What the hell man? Most of where I learn my **** is from you so stop chewing me out.
I'm quite familiar how Winzip works. I'm not a moron. However trying to learn or execute doing things right nets these responses always.
You're a hardass just like me except I get frustrated with your responses. Yes google is my friend but for heaven sake if I read the wrong thing. I can't count on one hand how many things I've researched and asked around here to be told I'm wrong.
I'm not trying to be hard but it IS simple to ask to learn the right stuff.
/end
Simmer down, you sure are sensitive. Sorry I don't sugar coat it and make it all pretty. Plus, remember written words on a screen take on a whole life of their own based on interpretation. Sometimes this board is a great resource, but certainly confirmation outside is a good thing. I learned a lot about tubes when I was a tube noob several years ago, but I learned a lot more outside CP.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
So you agree that copying a digital file 10 times changes it's sound? Why should anyone let misinformation like that pass? Some things are not debatable.
I was referring to my personal experience with iTunes.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
BLAH BLAH BLAH
No, stupid. I am referring to my experience with iTunes. I don't care what you think is "fact". I looked at iTunes YEARS ago when it first came out and it was (and still is) a veritable ripoff. Especially since I can make higher quality rips at home from actual CD's. My experience is exactly what I related.
As far as the hardware goes, genius, yeah, a CD player can fail. But you know what? I JUST BUY ANOTHER ONE. If the hard drive fails with ALL of my data on it, I am up the creek. I might be able to recover the data. But the chance of getting it all back is low. If the CD player fails, IT DOESN'T TAKE MY CD'S WITH IT.
And you didn't point out anything. You're using flawed logic to dispute a point I didn't make. That's a fallacy.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
You brought up the issue with album costs, and you were just plain wrong. Deny it all you want, and try to pass the blame onto me, but it's not going to change the fact that you were wrong.No, stupid. I am referring to my experience with iTunes. I don't care what you think is "fact". I looked at iTunes YEARS ago when it first came out and it was (and still is) a veritable ripoff. Especially since I can make higher quality rips at home from actual CD's. My experience is exactly what I related...And you didn't point out anything. You're using flawed logic to dispute a point I didn't make. That's a fallacy. I let you try and figure out which one.
That's not accurate either. A defective CD player can certainly damage CDs, either via the lens hitting the CD itself via improper focusing, or via a bad loading mechanism. I've experienced both.As far as the hardware goes, genius, yeah, a CD player can fail. But you know what? I JUST BUY ANOTHER ONE. If the hard drive fails with ALL of my data on it, I am up the creek. I might be able to recover the data. But the chance of getting it all back is low. If the CD player fails, IT DOESN'T TAKE MY CD'S WITH IT.
As for your constant rhetoric about hard drives going bad, it just sounds like you're too lazy to backup; either that, or too thick to understand it. You may not lose digital music, but you can still lose your documents and other important data.Based on your posts, as well as others regard for you around here, I've learned that I shouldn't care what you think about me. However, you are welcome to continue to judge me if it so pleases you, your majesty. -
Some folks retrace the Oregon Trail, others wait for the interstate to be built.
Those of you currently working in the hard drive arena remind me of the Donner Party, blazing the way, but stranded and eating each other to survive.
I'm waiting until the new interstate is built before I leave the CD highway.VTL ST50 w/mods / RCA6L6GC / TlfnknECC801S
Conrad Johnson PV-5 w/mods
TT Conrad Johnson Sonographe SG3 Oak / Sumiko LMT / Grado Woodbody Platinum / Sumiko PIB2 / The Clamp
Musical Fidelity A1 CDPro/ Bada DD-22 Tube CDP / Conrad Johnson SD-22 CDP
Tuners w/mods Kenwood KT5020 / Fisher KM60
MF x-DAC V8, HAInfo NG27
Herbies Ti-9 / Vibrapods / MIT Shotgun AC1 IEC's / MIT Shotgun 2 IC's / MIT Shotgun 2 Speaker Cables
PS Audio Cryo / PowerPort Premium Outlets / Exact Power EP15A Conditioner
Walnut SDA 2B TL /Oak SDA SRS II TL (Sonicaps/Mills/Cardas/Custom SDA ICs / Dynamat Extreme / Larry's Rings/ FSB-2 Spikes
NAD SS rigs w/mods
GIK panels -
Greg, the interstate is built, this has been in the works for atleast 10 years. The only downside is the record companies aren't making true lossless available on a large scale. The future is here and digital streaming (our own music via a HD), etc is here to stay, but I don't see the silver disc going away anytime soon.
Is incorporating digital lossless music take a bit of a learning curve? Sure it does. Are there ways to screw it up if you don't do your homework? Sure there is.
Some have chosen to embrace it others haven't yet and yet others will go kicking and screaming into it when it finally becomes the norm. When that will be is not known.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
