The end of CD's debunked

WilliamM2

mantis wrote: »

I gotta a question for all of you who still want to use the CD format, why?

To get the music on the hard drive. There really isn't much available for download that I want. HD tracks has a few, but they are all titles I already have.

It's odd that people think $10 is way to much for a CD, and the music industry is ripping us off. But $20 for a download is OK? And I would never pay for lossy files like itunes, completely worthless.

sucks2beme

Let's face it. They still market vinyl. So the CD really isn't going away.
It won't be mainstream, very large, or relevant, but it still will be there.
But for 99% of the world, it won't matter. You have to wonder if Best Buy will
still be around in a couple of years.

Gadabout

George Grand wrote: »

The Oracle has spoken.

Wasn't that the drugged, mostly naked girl, on top of the mountain in 300?

Scott

amulford

You just made envision Dan in mostly not there sheer rags writhing around on the ground in rapturous ecstasy. Now I have to gouge out my minds eye with a dull pencil. Thanks, thanks a WHOLE bunch....

inspiredsports

mantis wrote: »

. . . I gotta a question for all of you who still want to use the CD format, why? If you can store all your music in one place , take up about a 12 inch or less square space . . .

Maybe some people have bigger houses with more storage space?

BlueFox

Good to see some serious discussion occurring again in this thread. The other CD thread was closed for no apparent reason. Let's hope the powers that be let this thread stay open.

CDs will decline in sales until at some point a manufacturer will decide it is no longer worthwhile to manufacture/sell them. At that point, others will follow, but niche players will exist for some time. However, when this will occur is open.

tonyb

The artist still has to make money. If the cd went away, that leaves them with low profit streaming. Highly unlikely unless bands decided to take up marketing, distribution and sales....also unlikely. They can also boost up the cost of a downloaded song to satisfy the artist, but as a consumer where does that leave you ? Toss in the worldwide web and bootlegging and there is no way a band/artist is going to make money in that fashion. There has to be either a continuation of physical media, or a huge jump in price for downloaded music. Don't see any middle ground here.

rromeo923

Ok. Can of worms is now opening.

All music is available for free.
High res 24/96 or even 24/192 is available for free.

If you are in the know and can obtain an invite to certain bit torrent sites then everything is there for the taking.
There is one site that has multiples of most albums/cds ever made.
Ex.
Steely Dan - Aja [1977] Bookmark
70s, pop, rock, fusion, rhythm.and.blues, jazz.rock
3 weeks ago 879.11 MB (Max) 3,190 501 7
− 1980 - Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab / MFSL 1-033 / Half-Speed Mastered / Vinyl
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / 24bit Lossless 8 3 years ago 879.11 MB 133 21 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless 7 6 months ago 250.43 MB 5 2 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 7 6 months ago 64.95 MB 43 12 0
− 1984 - Vinyl
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 256 7 3 weeks ago 79.94 MB 0 1 0
− 1984 - MCA / MCD01745 / Hoffman Mastered / CD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless / Log (100%) / Cue 10 1 year ago 229.94 MB 42 20 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 320 9 5 months ago 91.44 MB 5 1 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 9 5 months ago 68.06 MB 9 5 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V2 (VBR) 9 5 months ago 55.87 MB 0 0 0
− 1984 - MCA / MCAD 37214 / Remastered / CD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless / Log (100%) / Cue 9 2 years ago 241.58 MB 183 20 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 320 7 4 years ago 91.63 MB 209 16 3
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 7 3 years ago 68.75 MB 190 16 1
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V2 (VBR) 11 3 years ago 57.77 MB 56 2 0
− 1988 - Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab / UDCD 515 / 24 Karat Gold CD MFSL Mastered / CD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless / Log (100%) / Cue 11 2 years ago 234.27 MB 232 64 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 320 10 1 year ago 91.59 MB 28 7 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 7 3 years ago 70.29 MB 238 53 1
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V2 (VBR) 10 1 year ago 59.31 MB 4 1 0
− 1999 - MCA Records / 0 08811 20562 1 / Canada / CD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless / Log (100%) / Cue 9 10 months ago 245.59 MB 1 1 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 7 10 months ago 72.65 MB 10 3 0
− 1999 - MCA / 088 112 056-2 / Remastered / CD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless / Log (100%) / Cue 10 2 years ago 247.55 MB 243 23 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 320 8 1 month ago 91.71 MB 1 0 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 7 4 years ago 72.00 MB 1,412 182 0
− 2007 - Cisco Music / CLP-1006 / Cisco 30th Anniversary Audiophile LP / Vinyl
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / 24bit Lossless 10 2 years ago 473.45 MB 41 6 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / 24bit Lossless 9 3 months ago 800.06 MB 18 12 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless 7 6 months ago 212.81 MB 1 2 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 320 9 2 months ago 91.06 MB 10 5 0
− 2010 - Geffen / UIGY-9026 / SHM-SACD / SACD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / 24bit Lossless 18 6 months ago 788.73 MB 40 15 1
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / 24bit Lossless 19 2 months ago 754.84 MB 34 23 1
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless 7 6 months ago 243.33 MB 4 2 0

That is an example of one album/cd available to download for free in different forms.

Many times sounding as good or better than cd. Especially some of the vinyl rips.

Anyway have fun with this.

tonyb

You just made the artists point, so I wouldn't count on anything for free very long.

rromeo923

I went and saw Mike Doughty live last week. I probably wouldnt have if I hadnt downloaded his music and found out about him.
During the show he announced that they would be recording the show and it would be available for purchase. He then said " Please buy the cd or wait a few days and find it on the internet and download it for free. I don't care I just want people to hear my music."

I have never sold anything I have downloaded and have given away much of it. I have turned others onto music that they would never have heard and as a result they have either bought or attended concerts of those artist.

Just sharing the groove. This is an age old practice. Just like copying cassettes, cd's etc.

inspiredsports

rromeo923 wrote: »

. . . "I don't care I just want people to hear my music." . . .

. . . is not realistic, unless the artist is already independently wealthy, and touring / playing out is just his/her hobby.

Drenis

rromeo923 wrote: »

Ok. Can of worms is now opening.

All music is available for free.
High res 24/96 or even 24/192 is available for free.

If you are in the know and can obtain an invite to certain bit torrent sites then everything is there for the taking.
There is one site that has multiples of most albums/cds ever made.
Ex.
Steely Dan - Aja [1977] Bookmark
70s, pop, rock, fusion, rhythm.and.blues, jazz.rock
3 weeks ago 879.11 MB (Max) 3,190 501 7
− 1980 - Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab / MFSL 1-033 / Half-Speed Mastered / Vinyl
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / 24bit Lossless 8 3 years ago 879.11 MB 133 21 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless 7 6 months ago 250.43 MB 5 2 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 7 6 months ago 64.95 MB 43 12 0
− 1984 - Vinyl
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 256 7 3 weeks ago 79.94 MB 0 1 0
− 1984 - MCA / MCD01745 / Hoffman Mastered / CD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless / Log (100%) / Cue 10 1 year ago 229.94 MB 42 20 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 320 9 5 months ago 91.44 MB 5 1 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 9 5 months ago 68.06 MB 9 5 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V2 (VBR) 9 5 months ago 55.87 MB 0 0 0
− 1984 - MCA / MCAD 37214 / Remastered / CD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless / Log (100%) / Cue 9 2 years ago 241.58 MB 183 20 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 320 7 4 years ago 91.63 MB 209 16 3
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 7 3 years ago 68.75 MB 190 16 1
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V2 (VBR) 11 3 years ago 57.77 MB 56 2 0
− 1988 - Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab / UDCD 515 / 24 Karat Gold CD MFSL Mastered / CD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless / Log (100%) / Cue 11 2 years ago 234.27 MB 232 64 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 320 10 1 year ago 91.59 MB 28 7 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 7 3 years ago 70.29 MB 238 53 1
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V2 (VBR) 10 1 year ago 59.31 MB 4 1 0
− 1999 - MCA Records / 0 08811 20562 1 / Canada / CD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless / Log (100%) / Cue 9 10 months ago 245.59 MB 1 1 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 7 10 months ago 72.65 MB 10 3 0
− 1999 - MCA / 088 112 056-2 / Remastered / CD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless / Log (100%) / Cue 10 2 years ago 247.55 MB 243 23 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 320 8 1 month ago 91.71 MB 1 0 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / V0 (VBR) 7 4 years ago 72.00 MB 1,412 182 0
− 2007 - Cisco Music / CLP-1006 / Cisco 30th Anniversary Audiophile LP / Vinyl
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / 24bit Lossless 10 2 years ago 473.45 MB 41 6 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / 24bit Lossless 9 3 months ago 800.06 MB 18 12 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless 7 6 months ago 212.81 MB 1 2 0
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? MP3 / 320 9 2 months ago 91.06 MB 10 5 0
− 2010 - Geffen / UIGY-9026 / SHM-SACD / SACD
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / 24bit Lossless 18 6 months ago 788.73 MB 40 15 1
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / 24bit Lossless 19 2 months ago 754.84 MB 34 23 1
[ DL | FL | RP ] ? FLAC / Lossless 7 6 months ago 243.33 MB 4 2 0

That is an example of one album/cd available to download for free in different forms.

Many times sounding as good or better than cd. Especially some of the vinyl rips.

Anyway have fun with this.

I'm partially calling BS on this because just this past week, out of 8 different combination of artists I downloaded that claimed to be lossless rips, were not. The worst was around 800kbps and the highest was 1200-ish. How do we know those are true lossless rips? If anything, its impossible to find true lossless rips of everything.

WilliamM2

rromeo923 wrote: »

All music is available for free.
High res 24/96 or even 24/192 is available for free.

If you are in the know and can obtain an invite to certain bit torrent sites then everything is there for the taking.

So if you leave your door unlocked, anyone is free to take what they want? But don't worry about your MP3 collection, worthless even for free.

rromeo923

@Drenis

I would agree with you if I d/l from just any site. However, every one of the torrents uploaded to this particular site (which is near impossible to get an invite to) is verified before it is posted.

@ Inspired

Definite catch 22 for the artist. If you are a nobody and want your music heard you put it out there for free. If you are very famous, rich etc. you can afford to put the music out there (if you choose) because you can.

Go to livemusicarchive and see how many bands allow this. Lots more dont really care, but there record companies do etc.

There are definitely artist who do not allow this and fight it tooth and nail.

Many kids today trade hard drives with tons of music being "given" away. Bit Torrent sites do it on a larger scale.
Not sure what the future may bring but I dont d/l as much anymore because of free streaming and sites like Live Music Archive. It is just out there.

rromeo923

WilliamM2 wrote: »

So if you leave your door unlocked, anyone is free to take what they want? But don't worry about your MP3 collection, worthless even for free.

Every "cd" available on a Bit Torrent site is being "shared by people"

On the good sites you MUST maintain a ratio of uploaded/downloaded in order to be a member.
Think about having all your music that you have on a hard drive and allowing certain other people of like mind to have access to it.
Sharing.

WilliamM2

rromeo923 wrote: »

Every "cd" available on a Bit Torrent site is being "shared by people"

No, it's called piracy.

On the good sites you MUST maintain a ratio of uploaded/downloaded in order to be a member.
Think about having all your music that you have on a hard drive and allowing certain other people of like mind to have access to it.
Sharing.

By "people of like mind", you mean fellow thieves? I don't care if you do it, but don't try to pretend you are not stealing. It just makes you look foolish.

rromeo923

I have music that I have bought. I am willing to give that music to anyone.
I gave away all my cassettes. I have given away lots of cds. I have lots of digital files that were either ripped by myself or given to me from other people via, ftp server, bit torrent, hard drive trades etc. Those I also give away.

I support musicians by attending concerts. Purchasing Live Streaming. I buy T-Shirts, I take people to concerts. I give away free burned cds for people to check out a group. This results in musician support.


Don't consider myself a thief.
Actually the opposite.

heiney9

Actually you are a thief. It's called piracy and it's partly to blame why we are in this mess. I'm not going to play innocent and say I've never borrowed and copied friends cd's but I certainly don't make it a point to go out on the internet and amass a huge collection of pirated music which it what you are doing.

You can paint it philanthropic or for the better good all you want, but you are stealing and perpetuating thievery by actively participating.

H9

sucks2beme

There will be people looking for the guys running that web site.
Let's hope they settle with just going after them and not you.
BTW, I hope your virus protection is up to date.

inspiredsports

rromeo923 wrote: »

I have music that I have bought. I am willing to give that music to anyone. I gave away all my cassettes. I have given away lots of cds. I have lots of digital files that were either ripped by myself or given to me from other people via, ftp server, bit torrent, hard drive trades etc. Those I also give away.

I support musicians by attending concerts. Purchasing Live Streaming. I buy T-Shirts, I take people to concerts. I give away free burned cds for people to check out a group. This results in musician support.


Don't consider myself a thief.
Actually the opposite.

I guess I can almost understand that you charged the buyers money when you recently sold your SL2000's and Sherbourn amp in the Classifieds, but how do you square the fact you charged folks hundreds of dollars for the dozens of SACD's and DVD's you sold there?

If I'd intercepted that music after you shipped it and before your buyer received it, I'm so glad you wouldn't consider me a thief.


And regarding, "(QUOTE=rromeo923;1683025) I have music that I have bought. I am willing to give that music to anyone.". Really ???


You are either very young and haven't thought your position through very well, or you are a Hypocrite!

steveinaz

CD says: "The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated".

markmarc

Nicely put Inspired!

I love how easy it is to listen to music via my server setup, but I won't make the same mistake I made back in 1985 when I sold all my lp's most of which had only been played once or twice. I'm keeping my cd's, they take up no more space than one of my speaker boxes, and they won't fail unlike my main and backup hard drives.

rromeo923

inspiredsports wrote: »

I guess I can almost understand that you charged the buyers money when you recently sold your SL2000's and Sherbourn amp in the Classifieds, but how do you square the fact you charged folks hundreds of dollars for the dozens of SACD's and DVD's you sold there?

If I'd intercepted that music after you shipped it and before your buyer received it, I'm so glad you wouldn't consider me a thief.


And regarding, "(QUOTE=rromeo923;1683025) I have music that I have bought. I am willing to give that music to anyone.". Really ???


You are either very young and haven't thought your position through very well, or you are a Hypocrite!

I have definitely sold cds, SACDs and DVD audio's and and an amp and some SL2000 tweeters on here. I am sure if you ask anyone who bought anything from me the price was more than fair and the transaction was quick and handled professionally.

As I have offered before. If you send me a hard drive I will fill it with music and send it back to you . No cost.

It is very possible that I am older than you and have bought more music, attended more concerts and given away more music and concert tickets than you and most people in the world.


Anyway. My last comment on this.

Can of worms :arrowu:

inspiredsports

rromeo923 wrote: »

I have definitely sold cds, SACDs and DVD audio's and and an amp and some SL2000 tweeters on here. I am sure if you ask anyone who bought anything from me the price was more than fair and the transaction was quick and handled professionally.

As I have offered before. If you send me a hard drive I will fill it with music and send it back to you . No cost.

It is very possible that I am older than you and have bought more music, attended more concerts and given away more music and concert tickets than you and most people in the world.


Anyway. My last comment on this.

Can of worms :arrowu:

You quite missed the point.

Why didn't you give away the CD's instead of charging for them as you boasted in post #52?

I'm confused as it appears you feel music has no value and should be freely given and taken, yet you charged for it. Seems hypocritical to me.

I also don't understand how you can "give away" copies of music that does not belong to you.

You seem to concurrently believe in both theft (as you give away what isn't yours) and ownership (as you sell for money).

cnh

Have to agree with markmarc and inspiredsports here!

Also, as an academic and avid reader/writer I really can't imagine either my Home Office or actual office with one or two tiny hard drives and something like an ipad for all of my reading and music. The very idea of entering an antiseptic/sterile/empty space devoid of everything that reminds me of "my life's journey" is very disturbing. I have several thousand books in my home office, hundreds of CDs, tapes, LPs, etc. When I enter that inner sanctum I can "see" that I am surrounded by many of the great minds and artists of the past and present--I feel that I am "home". The feeling of satisfaction and peace that is experienced there allows me to both relax and to work with much inspiration.

I don't understand why that would be considered "cluttered" space? I would call it a "welcoming"! It also reminds me of a life in the library which has always had its 'mystery' for me--you can't instantaneously access it, it takes some "effort" and in such a moment/space that is that effort, new ideas arise--are born. But enough for now.

cnh

chumlie

I agree with you Rick and anyone that calls you a thief really should take a look in the mirror. I too have spent thousands of dollars on cd's. lp's, casettes, and yaeh even 8-tracks. And will continue to do so. P S. I'm looking for a hard drive now.

WilliamM2

chumlie wrote: »

I agree with you Rick and anyone that calls you a thief really should take a look in the mirror.

Why? I don't have any pirated music.

I too have spent thousands of dollars on cd's. lp's, casettes, and yaeh even 8-tracks. And will continue to do so. P S. I'm looking for a hard drive now.

So how many groceries do I have to buy before it's okay to just walk out of the store without paying for them?

inspiredsports

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Why? I don't have any pirated music.

ditto

WilliamM2 wrote: »

So how many groceries do I have to buy before it's okay to just walk out of the store without paying for them?

and +1

BlueFox

This really got side-tracked from CDs, and digital downloads, into stealing music. However, it is sort of related. Interestingly, a major reason why the record companies, and artists, hate digital downloads is because it is very easy to make perfect copies that are indistinguishable from the original. Of course, some people will say they can tell the difference, but most know that is not true.

sucks2beme

This is my concern.
People in the music business read a thread like this.
They then conclude that DRM is very important.
They then put DRM on everything. No more copying
to your music server or making a personal copy for the car.
You now have to lug around a device like an IPOD with their
DRM rights and good luck moving it around without a DRM mishap.
You upgrade devices, and you always run the risk of blowing it all
out of the water. No reselling allowed. You own it conditionally.