SDA SRS 2 Pin/Blade Crossovers

dcmartinpc
dcmartinpc Posts: 844
edited August 2011 in Vintage Speakers
OK, Most of you probably already know what happened, but because of what appears to be a robbery, I am minus a pair of SRS 2 P/B crossovers.

I need to get these speakers up and running again. I have the schematics for the crossover boards. Here are the options I am currently toying with...

1.) Pick up a set of Gimpod's boards and have a set built up on them
2.) Have a set built point to point
3.) Try to find a stock set and forego this whole modding thing...


Advice????

We can talk about the problems in the other thread. I would like to focus on the options here :smile:

Don
Living Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)

Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)

Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9
Post edited by dcmartinpc on
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Comments

  • intangible
    intangible Posts: 262
    edited August 2011
    This sounds like a great excuse to go active, if you've ever had the urge.

    I've noticed a lot of the fellows with Klipsch speakers build large outboard crossovers on blocks of wood, which lets them use comically sized inductors. I know replacing the stock inductors is less popular here, but this would also be a good excuse to try it out. Those crossovers are fairly complex, though, so building new ones would be expensive, either on a circuit board or point to point.
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  • dcmartinpc
    dcmartinpc Posts: 844
    edited August 2011
    intangible wrote: »
    This sounds like a great excuse to go active, if you've ever had the urge.

    I've noticed a lot of the fellows with Klipsch speakers build large outboard crossovers on blocks of wood, which lets them use comically sized inductors. I know replacing the stock inductors is less popular here, but this would also be a good excuse to try it out. Those crossovers are fairly complex, though, so building new ones would be expensive, either on a circuit board or point to point.

    My only concern with active is the "SDA" circuit. I am not sure how I would replicate that....

    Don
    Living Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)

    Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)

    Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2011
    intangible wrote: »
    This sounds like a great excuse to go active, if you've ever had the urge.
    Not with these speakers.

    Don, your only issue with Gimp's boards or point to point will be sourcing new inductors with the correct DCR.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • dcmartinpc
    dcmartinpc Posts: 844
    edited August 2011
    I am going to show some of my ignorance here, but is the only inductor in the crossover the large inductor that hangs off the back, I can't remember the looks of the crossover in my head.... If so, I do still have those :D

    Thanks in advance,

    Don
    Living Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)

    Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)

    Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited August 2011
    The most viable option is to get Gimpod's boards and then rebuild the x-over to spec.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited August 2011
    According to the schematics posted by DK, you have 6 inductors in each xover as follows:

    0.4 mH - 2 each
    0.7 mH - 1 each
    2.75 mH - 2 each
    16 mH - 1 each

    That's alot of inductors. I know most here say do not replace the inductors unless you find new ones with the exact same DCR. IIRC, Doro says he always replaces the inductors, even with those that have a lower DCR.

    I've done the latter in some Def Tech speakers on the advice of Danny Ritchie. I included them in new outboard crossovers I built using point to point wiring, sonicaps/mills. The improvement, after burn in seemed well worth it.

    I couldn't pinpoint the changes brought about by the inductors alone since I did the whole xovers at once but I certainly hear no bad effects.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • dcmartinpc
    dcmartinpc Posts: 844
    edited August 2011
    Ouch! That is close to $600 in inductors from North Creek!!!


    Don
    Living Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)

    Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)

    Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited August 2011
    Go with Solen..
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  • intangible
    intangible Posts: 262
    edited August 2011
    Face wrote: »
    Not with these speakers.

    Having no experience with active crossovers myself, I will take your word for it, but would you mind expounding? It appears to me that it could be done with one amp for the standard drivers, on for the dimensional drivers, and either two amps for the differing tweeters or with a single amp and a smaller passive crossover.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited August 2011
    You can't run active with SDA's. They are a whole other animal because of the SDA circuit.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited August 2011
    +1 for using Gimpod's crossovers. I have done the 3.1TL's using them and he makes it so easy (as long as you can solder) by following the instructions on his site. That is the way I recommend.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2011
    dcmartinpc wrote: »
    Ouch! That is close to $600 in inductors from North Creek!!!
    Except for the 16mH, the rest would be a waste from NC.
    intangible wrote: »
    Having no experience with active crossovers myself, I will take your word for it, but would you mind expounding? It appears to me that it could be done with one amp for the standard drivers, on for the dimensional drivers, and either two amps for the differing tweeters or with a single amp and a smaller passive crossover.
    heiney9 wrote: »
    You can't run active with SDA's. They are a whole other animal because of the SDA circuit.

    H9
    H9 hit it on the head, it would be much more complex than your average active setup.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • dcmartinpc
    dcmartinpc Posts: 844
    edited August 2011
    Is solen my best bet for Inductors then? It is sounding like Gimpod boards are the way to go with replacement inductors. I have the 16mH still since I did not send it with the crossovers. That will save me some. I need to add this up!

    Don
    Living Room: Adcom GFP-750 (Upgraded), Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP-83, Pioneer DV-79AVi, Parasound HCA-3500 (Upgraded), SDA SRS 2 P/B (Gimpod, Sonicaps, & Mills)

    Theater: Denon 4311ci, Oppo BDP-93, Parasound HCA-2205+HCA-2200II, Polk LSi9, LSiC, LSiFX, LSi7, Custom 18" TC Sounds sub with 2 18" PR, Sharp XV-Z12000, Pioneer Kuro KRP-500M (isf Enabled)

    Bedroom: HK AVR354, Pioneer DV-47a, Parasound HCA-1500a, Polk LSi9
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2011
    Solen would have too low of a DCR.

    From a quick search, these are close.

    http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-core-19-awg/

    http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-core-20-awg/

    http://www.parts-express.com/mfg/jantzen/jantzen.cfm#20gauge
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited August 2011
    If nothing else Don, get the boards to have them in case the situation doesn't get resolved. Not sure how many runs he's making but those are going give you the least amount of headaches going forward if you don't ever see your stock x-overs again.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • gimpod
    gimpod Posts: 1,793
    edited August 2011
    drumminman wrote: »
    According to the schematics posted by DK, you have 6 inductors in each xover as follows:

    0.4 mH - 2 each
    0.7 mH - 1 each
    2.75 mH - 2 each
    16 mH - 1 each

    That's alot of inductors. I know most here say do not replace the inductors unless you find new ones with the exact same DCR. IIRC, Doro says he always replaces the inductors, even with those that have a lower DCR.

    I've done the latter in some Def Tech speakers on the advice of Danny Ritchie. I included them in new outboard crossovers I built using point to point wiring, sonicaps/mills. The improvement, after burn in seemed well worth it.

    I couldn't pinpoint the changes brought about by the inductors alone since I did the whole xovers at once but I certainly hear no bad effects.

    Sorry but wrong, The SRS SDA 2 pin/blade crossover is the same (component wise) as the SDA 1C and the inductor values are as follows;

    0.4 mH - 2 each
    0.13 mH - 1 each
    2.50 mH (L1) - 1 each
    1.25 mH (L2) - 1 each
    9.6 mH (Big round one) - 1 each

    Don, you my be in luck. I'm sending you a PM on this (it may take me a bit to get it all figured out) Be patient grasshopper.
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited August 2011
    gimpod wrote: »
    Sorry but wrong, The SRS SDA 2 pin/blade crossover is the same (component wise) as the SDA 1C and the inductor values are as follows;

    0.4 mH - 2 each
    0.13 mH - 1 each
    2.50 mH (L1) - 1 each
    1.25 mH (L2) - 1 each
    9.6 mH (Big round one) - 1 each

    Don, you my be in luck. I'm sending you a PM on this (it may take me a bit to get it all figured out) Be patient grasshopper.

    Oops! Sorry, I looked at the schematics for the SRS - I missed the "2" in the title :eek:
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • Marty913
    Marty913 Posts: 760
    edited August 2011
    Face wrote: »
    Solen would have too low of a DCR.

    From a quick search, these are close.

    http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-core-19-awg/

    http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/air-core-20-awg/

    http://www.parts-express.com/mfg/jantzen/jantzen.cfm#20gauge

    Not to hijack the thread but related somewhat. If you can't find the exact inductance (.13 for example), do you go one up or one down - or is it more complicated than that.
    Sony 60'' SXRD 1080p
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    Panasonic BD35 Blu-Ray
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    Center=Polk CS10, Surround = Athena Dipoles, Sub= Boston 12HO
    Music/Video Streaming = Netgear NEO550
    TT = Audio Technica
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited August 2011
    I believe they can wind custom values for you.

    If not, go up and you can wind them down yourself. There are online inductor calculators you can use or you can pick up a LCR meter to check your work.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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