Polk Audio SDA CRS+ Mods...

evhudsons

That's a good idea to put the tweeters on one side so he will see the difference and order new ones for the other side. I'm giving the first pair to him anyway. I forgot that the 1c's have the blade/blade connection. I'll make him a new cord, but he hasn't given me his mancave configuration yet.

I got my crossovers back from the Vr3MxSTYLER2K3, and put in the dynamat, the new rdo198's, norez, and sealed all the drivers, tweeters, and passive radiator along with the binding board. It took longer than I thought it would, but that is because I was trying to be careful.

I had to leave town after putting the speakers back together, but I left them on the whole time I was gone to get some extra burn time. They sound really really great, so I'm really excited to hear them get better.


The friendly warnings from Nspindel about audible changes regarding the new crossovers were spot on, so I am comparing them in my mind to before I put in the rdo194's.

The rdo198's immediately sounded better than the stock sl2000, but not so much the rdo194's, until I came back after a weekend away. The improvement is much better. At first, the tweeters were the show, with the mid drivers being subdued a lot. Now after four days, the improvement is steady. Some music really sounded small, but I decided to put in a loud action movie on day 3 to stretch the limits a bit. Everything is super clear, every word was more than audible, and the trebles were great. At moderate levels, the sound was in between good and average, but as I crank it, it gets much better. Last night I went back to music, and was getting back to the joy of listening to a spatial stage, but it wasn't back to the concert in the living room feel I had before the crossover change and when I had the rdo194's in.

I'm really glad I had the warnings. Without them, and especially if I had done the crossovers myself, I would have gone a little mad at myself for **** with something I shouldn't have. I checked my interconnect cord, because I was wondering if they were loose. It was fine, so I checked to make sure all drivers were working, and that everything was in correct phase, they were.

I double checked how I put the crossovers back on the inductors. I found Toolfanforlife's thread where the pictures of the stock crossover were connected to the inductors. The front wire was connected to the left side, and the rear wire connected to the right. I don't know if it would make a difference anyway, but I wanted to make sure I had it connected right. It was.

Although I resealed the drivers, the bass is there but much less pronounced. I'm assuming that is coming back with further burning. Eventually I'll put in the rings once I get my post count high enough, but I think next will be upgrading the inductors. I understand it will require further burning, but at least now I will get a taste of the improvement.

This morning, day five, I was jamming out. My wife although super supportive, was not in a rocking great mood, so I put on some "tranquility" music from satellite, and she as well as the dogs loved the spa treatment feel filling the great room. When I left the house she was already walking around with a smile and a towel wrapped around her hair, and the dog was completely relaxed upside down on the couch. He really loves music now. The spatial feel is now coming back more and more. I am quite happy with the way it has improved already. The tweeters are now sounding more natural, and the mids are starting to produce more, and the passive radiator is producing more bass.

For someone else not sure about doing the crossovers, have someone else do it. It was the right thing for me to do, as there is a learning curve and I didn't want to experiment with my crossovers. Everything else I can do myself, but the crossovers came back beautiful, and I know that they are done right. With the burn in period, I'm sure I would lose some sleep not knowing if I messed up or not. Plus, it was obvious that it was difficult to do without Gimpod's boards.


I'm still amazed at how I went from cursing a storm up after dropping the speaker separating two drivers, to having a whole new outlook on my musical life by discovering I could upgrade and modernize my speakers. I'm also amazed how I went wondering if I was crazy to hold onto my speakers against the advice of others with modern electronics to knowing that I am not crazy and can do something about it and now really blow some minds with the amazing sound.

It's really incredible, especially how Darqueknight using the schematics to make something Polk audio had not actually produced. I feel very humble and grateful for the pavework everyone has done and all the helping and sharing.


I will add to this post later as the burn continues. So thanks again to all!

VR3

Thanks for the nice thorough write up!!

Keep us posted on all the changes!

Thanks for the opportunity to mod your crossovers and thanks again for the delicious fish! It was awesome!

evhudsons

Quick update:

Yesterday I got home, actually heard real bass coming from the speakers. That has never happened before, not that kind of bass. It wasn't loud, but it was certainly a real sub sounding bass. I suppose that is because of the sealed drivers. I was so excited about that that I took my car subwoofer out, sealed that up quite tight, and now that is sounding really tight and deep.

Last night I listened to music, and the quality seemed to simply explode back to incredible. Now the real excitement of just sitting there in awe is there, and it is getting better and better.

It is now apparent that the crossover mod and tweeter upgrade was a massive and huge improvement. The speakers now sound waaay better than when the rdo194's were in prior to the crossover upgrades.

I have a feeling that by tonight or tomorrow, my concert in a living room will have returned.

I'm glad you enjoyed the fish! My wife went out yesterday and caught 32 large yellowtail snappers while I was slaving away at work.

nspindel

This thread is epic. We should make it a sticky in Vintage Speakers.

evhudsons

Due to not getting enough burn time in from calling my friends on the East coast, and realllly good friends flooded in Vermont, my response is a little tardy. I'm not sure how many hours I have burned in, but although I am over 500 hours, it isn't 500 hours of sustained volume. I turn it down at night, and it's low to moderate while I'm at work. Now I have it on here and there but there is still the ever improving sound quality. Sometimes my sound gets a little thin, then the soundstage and brilliance just overwhelms me. It's starting to settle down to the overwhelming stage now. It was going in, then out again, and coming back at surprising moments. I know now that without the gurus on this forum, I would not have found this path to auditory freedom. My wife always second guesses me, then laughs at me, then as my conviction becomes true, she becomes my best believer. Yesterday she sat on the couch, listening to HER music, for hours, during daylight hours. She wasn't aware that I noticed, and I think we all go in our place musically so upgrading the speakers, at least mine, has been the best happening to my house musically upgrade wise in the last 20 years.

I forgot to mention that I did jb weld the drivers while I had them out.
I also got my propeller shop genius to weld me a pair of stands from the spec sheet from scrap boatyard aluminum. The stands reallly helped, and it is another obvious upgrade. I have four holes drilled in 3/8ths I think, so now I will spike them once I find out the best way.


good luck to all from the hurricane, and I am glad to hear everyone is ok, including Ben, whom I don't know, but I'm sure he is a stand out guy.

VR3

Glad to hear they are burning in nicely..

Did you fill the stands with sand or shot?

nspindel

If you've got over 500 hours on them, you should be good to go. Very glad that you're so happy with the results. And if the wife likes it, you're in real good shape...

evhudsons

Yes, the speakers have seemed to finally settled in very nicely! It's not easy impressing much less appeasing the wife sometimes. I had a hard time convincing her to keep these speakers until she heard the vast improvement.

I didn't put anything in the stands, as they are not hollow, certainly one direction away from spec, but they are better than the old ones by far. I had been using a wobbly one I got from B**e for the 301 speakers. It was the closest stand I could find that would be high enough. They are garbage though, and unsafe for my speakers. I don't have spikes yet, but I did use some speaker connectors temporarily. I'll post pictures here in case you have good ideas. My system is not normally sloppy with wires dangling, but I haven't decided yet where exactly to place my speakers for optimum listening. The reason they are spread so far apart is that I have a pulldown movie screen for night movies and using my ps3 to stream music, and I have a large subwoofer behind my left speaker that I can't move yet because of the drop down screen. Eventually I'll get rid of the tv, mount a flat screen and put the sub under that but not standing on it of course. Keep in mind I've been on a tight budget, and am far from audiophile beauty, but I'm working on it. I have no shame issues, so feel free anyone to chime in with good ideas about what I can do to make it all better.
The holes I have in my stands right now are 3/8ths, but I can easily make larger ones if needed. The stands look good standing back, but as you can see closer up the welding is apparent. You don't see it though unless you get down and really look. But..a budget is a budget, and it was almost like recycling!

evhudsons

Oh, while I'm thinking about it, I did discover one unusual thing. In one speaker, the one I originally dropped, one mid driver was a 6511, the other 6510. I assumed the other was the same way, but when I put everything back and was jb welding, I noticed that the other speaker unchanged previously had a 6503 and a 6510. I thought for a second that maybe I had put in the replacement driver incorrectly, but I looked at everything including the old broken drivers I kept for no real reason, but everything was in order. The only thing I could think was that a long time ago I had a technician work on one tweeter, but maybe he replaced the driver and I just don't remember. I vaguely remember him saying he didn't replace the tweeter but fixed something else, so I'm assuming it's the safety jumper.

VR3

Hmmmmmm

Incredible room - love it.

Love the floor! I would definitely say they are a little far apart! Lookin good though!!

Keep us updated if anything changes!

nspindel

evhudsons wrote: »

Oh, while I'm thinking about it, I did discover one unusual thing. In one speaker, the one I originally dropped, one mid driver was a 6511, the other 6510. I assumed the other was the same way, but when I put everything back and was jb welding, I noticed that the other speaker unchanged previously had a 6503 and a 6510. I thought for a second that maybe I had put in the replacement driver incorrectly, but I looked at everything including the old broken drivers I kept for no real reason, but everything was in order. The only thing I could think was that a long time ago I had a technician work on one tweeter, but maybe he replaced the driver and I just don't remember. I vaguely remember him saying he didn't replace the tweeter but fixed something else, so I'm assuming it's the safety jumper.

Interesting, hopefully people smarter than I can chime in here. Here's what I know. The CRS+ was available in three different versions, simply referred to as the 1986, 1987, and 1989 versions. The 1986 version had a blade/blade interconnect, and both drivers were 6510's. The 1987 version was pin/blade, and had a 6510 and 6503. The 1989 version was pin/blade, but a 6510 and 6511. It almost sounds as if you've got one speaker that's a 1987 and one that's a 1989.

My sophomoric analysis of the crossover schematics of the 1987 and 1989 version is that the two xo's are the same, but I could be wrong. So I don't think you can tell the difference between 1987 version and 1989 version by looking at the crossovers. But if they are the same, then I think you should be able to swap in a 6511 for the 6503 and then have a matched set.

Can you post serial numbers for the two speakers? The serial numbers can tell a lot, but others on here are the authority figures there.

heiney9

I can't remember if CRS's were sold as a single or as a pair per box. That would explain EVhudson's oddity. I know the electronics store I worked at in the 80's was a smaller mom and pop store and we didn't take inventory or rotate inventory regularly so I could see how an older model could become inter mixed with a newer model.

If they were sold in the same box as a pair, then it's a mystery. IIRC, the CRS's were sold individually so that's probably what happened.

H9

nspindel

CRS+'s were sold one speaker per box.

dorokusai

nspindel wrote: »

CRS+'s were sold one speaker per box.

Correct.

evhudsons

I checked for the serial numbers, and there is a plate on the back of each speaker but no numbers listed. I did buy them on base in the Philippines, and it was probably 1989. They had a nice little show room and a couch to audition the speakers. The way things were done at the time, I wouldn't doubt anything. They look the same, both crossovers TL'd no problem. I think I will get another 6511 from polk if they are still available. I know for a long time they weren't but I think I saw a more recent post that they are making them now mainly due to club Polk interest.

Last night was fantastic, musical nirvana. Went to beer school, came home drank a couple of Abita's and let the music envelope me completely.

Life is grand!

nspindel

6511's are available from Polk. They are slightly different in appearance from the originals, but are intended to be drop-in replacments.

evhudsons

:biggrin:awesome, I'll call them tomorrow and get it shipped out. Nothing like a company that brings back drivers to make old faithful happy.

evhudsons

Another quick update: I am limited on budget right now, but really wanted to properly spike the speakers, not how I had them as pictured above. On a whim, I went to the only HT store in Key West and asked the owner if she had any spikes. I have had history with her wanting to buy from her, but she admitted she didn't know anything technical after I had asked a 1080i vs 1080p question and she had never heard of either. I still tried to buy something and get her to match prices, but she said, I'll tell you what we'll meet halfway, you buy from me and I'll bring my expertise. So, she rolled her eyes when I walked in, and of course didn't know what spikes were, then she remembered something, came out with 8 spikes and sold them for $10. Sold! She thought they were just junk laying around but an employee had talked her into keeping them a couple of months ago.
I put them on, and good lard, it just came alive! I still don't understand how such a simple thing can make that much of a difference, but it did! Wow. It wasn't so much the bass as it was the entire sound stage just opened up, as if it simply doubled. I had read tons about this simple upgrade, but it just seemed like a nice thing to do rather than being a top ten thing to do. If anyone is skeptical, just do it. I really didn't think it would do that much, especially being a smaller speaker.

I am supremely happy, but still have to do the inductors soon. After that, I will reward my self with the arduous task of re-veneering.

The only problem I am having now is leaving the room to go to bed.

nspindel

I had the same reaction when I spiked my 1C's. Couldn't believe my ears.

Which inductors are you going to use?

evhudsons

I believe it was these:

http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catal...2=4&niveau3=70

I still have a hard time believing that such a cheap and simple thing could be so great of a change. I mentioned it to a physicist friend last night while at beer school, and he said it made perfectly good sense to him, something like the more surface area touching from the speaker to the stand to the floor the more the entire stand and speaker would move, rather than containing the movement in the drivers themselves. It went over my head somewhat, but the proof is in the air.

VR3

That lady should not own a HT shop lol - what the heck? lol

nspindel

evhudsons, that link's not working for me. Obviously you're going for Solens. I have a pair of them already, waiting for me to start modding up my CRS+'s. I haven't auditioned them yet, but DarqueNight's already done a lot of homework on these inductors, he's got a nice thread where he compares them to NorthCreeks. You can't go wrong following his advice... My problem is that any time I'd have available to work on the CRS+'s in my shop is spent sitting on my **** listening to my 1C's!

I agree iwth Vr3 - that woman is in the wrong line of work.

Toolfan66

I just don't see how anybody here could be skeptical of putting on spikes .. IMO if you plan on running your speakers before upgrades it should be the first thing you do if you really want to hear what they can do..

anyone here not getting it done needs to get it done. when you decouple the speakers from the floor you will think you just purchased a new set of speakers and hear what you have been missing..

Toolfan66

Those things you call spikes scare me as they look weak and if they bend your speakers will be on the floor.. Not a good thing!!

evhudsons

Here's the link again:

http://www.solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catalogue_fiche.php?id=872&recherche=&numRows=&manufacturiers=&niveau1=1&niveau2=4&niveau3=70

Yeah that lady is something else. She used to be a front desk receptionist, came into a little money and decided to buy the business. It came with employees that sort of knew what they were doing sometimes, but she hasn't a clue to anything about anything audio or video.

I'll find out this weekend how 1c's sound, can't wait! Last night I was cranking King Crimson's Lark's Tongues in Aspic pt1, and I felt like the Memorex guy in the chair being blown back. It's a pretty good SDA tester, as it goes from string instruments to birds, to full blown wall of rock and then back again, with instruments flying all around.

I have a subwoofer, but since I've got these burned in and now on spikes, I don't bother. They sound fantastic.

What did you use for spikes on your 1c's? I want to spike my friends but am not sure yet what to get as I haven't seen the bottoms. The spikes I got for my stands I simply screwed through the holes, but I imagine I'll have to drill holes and insert them somehow.

It'll have to be a separate trip up to do those, but it would be nice to have the right ones.

I read Darqueknights thread, extremely informative as usual!

heiney9

evhudsons wrote: »

and I felt like the Memorex guy in the chair being blown back.

That would be the Maxell guy :biggrin:

H9

nspindel

That looks like the correct inductor.

evhudsons wrote: »

What did you use for spikes on your 1c's? I want to spike my friends but am not sure yet what to get as I haven't seen the bottoms. The spikes I got for my stands I simply screwed through the holes, but I imagine I'll have to drill holes and insert them somehow.

Larry's spikes. They pair well with Larry's rings:biggrin: Larry, you ever going to do a round of spikes again?

evhudsons

lol, my memory is sometimes suspect, yes the Maxell guy!

Larry, you are right. One of the things did bend, so I took them off. That's when I went to the HT store in hopes of them having spikes. Now that they are on, they are like new speakers. I still don't fully understand how it could help that much, but it is right up there with new tweeters and crossovers. I would actually say to someone now after doing the mods I've done with all of your help, spike first. Then get tweeter &/or crossovers and tweeters, then the SDA cable upgrade and the regular speaker wires too, JBL weld, dynamat, no rez, and once I get to try your rings, I'll probably bump that up to number three on that list. I tried to PM you a couple of times but for some reason it must not be working.

I am more than in for some rings if you still have any for the CRS+! And if you can do spikes too, then I'm in for that for me as well as my friend's 1C's.
They might be my 1C's after this weekend, lol.

evhudsons

By the way, those things pictured were just speaker wire connectors. I was jut trying to see what they would do. Even though they look like "spike", they had essentially no effect on the sound and as you said were dangerous anyway. Once I put proper spikes on them, they just became monster speakers, awesome, incredible, I can go on.

evhudsons

I just got from Miami and fixed up my friends 1c's. I replaced one pair of tweeters, put on dynamat, armacelled the driver seals, used black polish on the black wood cabinet. I removed the base simply because they were damaged somewhat, and looked like the particle board was coming apart. Plus in order to satisfy to a degree the waf, it made them shorter and less imposing. I cleaned the drivers, used an electronic cleaner on the connections and the crossover, vacuumed on dust cap so it's popped back out. By then I was falling in love with them and hadn't even heard them yet.
For lack of anything better, I put felt pads under the base for now. I made the SDA cord, new wires, got it into the house through mountain moving, fired it up.


WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



It's the first time hearing another SDA speaker. My friend's wife was constantly complaining that they were huge, looked awful, and "besides, they are from the 80's, they are old, they are crap!" That was the issue it seems.
We had friends over to watch the FSU game, and we got the speakers done and in just in time to play beforehand, and it was unanimous, they looked great, and sounded amazing. I love my CRS+, I really do, but I was blown away. Suddenly I was ready to take them home with me, and they were already sold to everyone there if it was put up for sale.
Two speakers, no surrounds, no sub. It sounded like a concert, sounded like surrounds all over, and as it was pointed out earlier, "where did you hide the subwoofer?"
Great trebles, great mids, and deeeeeeeeeeeeeeep sub. My friend was skeptical when I showed him the passive sub. He had remarked that upon hearing them from the seller that it didn't have much bass. I laughed and told him it was because it wasn't sealed properly, and mainly because it didn't have the SDA cord. He is a skeptic no more, and with my advice he was able to get her acclimated to aucoustic serenity and blissful happiness they both can share. It was a good thing I told my friend to download whatever she liked to listen to and have it ready for the first audition.

I loved the SDA on the 1c's, the sound is just beautiful, but for some reason I think my CRS+ has a bigger SDA soundstage, or is more precise, or something. I can't put a ear on it, but it is there. It isn't as loud or powerful, but I don't know, it would be a difficult decision if I had to make one on which one I would keep. Of course, the 1c is only partially upgraded. But I can see why one would put a bounty on them, they are gems.

Trey, we will be working on getting them used to the idea of getting better, so expect some more crossovers soon, and some great fish. We have a ton of dolphin and yellowtail as well as some blackfin tuna.