anyone have honda civic know-how?
Comments
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I am also ASE Certified but that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee nowadays. Just Kidding. I doubt the brake cleaner will help. If your getting fuel and spark there is little need to flood the car with more flammable vapors.
Can you get to the timing cover? -
Just be sure to rule out all the simple (and less expensive) stuff first. In the old days I had a 1978 VW Scirocco and I slipped the timing belt on that and threw the timing way off. The motor when it turned over had a completely different kind of sound compared to a normally timed car that just wouldn't catch but still turned over.
You notice anything different like that when cranking her over? I assume this Honda is the std 2-valves per cylinder head? Some cars with multiple valve heads are interferance engines, meaning if you slip even one tooth on the timing belt the valves will hit each other or the piston or both and do serious damage.
I guess my point is, if it;s a multi-valve head and the timing did slip you'd most likely have valve damage. But that's not the case in every multi-valve head.
Just more food for thought to help narrow things down. If your step son is a certified mechanic his ideas might be a little more solid then us arm chair mechanics
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Polkie2009 wrote: »Broken timing belt.
Ah yes, completely broken, not just slipped a tooth or two.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I'm not going to start asking 20 questions here to try and figure out what's wrong. You haven't given nearly enough info to even begin thinking about it. What I will say though is that brake clean in the intake is a bad idea.
It's extremely caustic and will likely damage a myriad of sensors and seals in the intake. It really offers no benefit. It's meant for brakes, not intakes, that's why they call it brake cleaner and not brake and intake cleaner.
If the idea is to clean it, get yourself a can of throttle body cleaner and even then, that's a risk as well. Your problem has nothing to do with cleaning the intake out though. I can almost guarantee it. If you are looking to get it to start, then use ether and do not squirt it directly in to the intake. Create a misty fog in front of the throttle body as you are cranking the engine. It'll suck the fog in and that's all you need. Ether is extremely flammable but if it starts pooling in puddles, it's a potent solvent as well that will damage all kinds of gaskets and seals except urethane and cork gaskets.
If your timing belt did jump, most Honduh engines are interference engines and you could have a damaged valve train or a broken piston. If the engine sounds like it's "freewheeling" the you need to look in the inspection port of the timing cover and see if the top cog is spinning. You could also take the valve cover off and watch the cam. If nothing is moving, you need a new timing belt and maybe more work.
If everything is spinning then you need to verify that you actually have spark, your plug wires are attached to the spark plugs and the distributor cap in the proper order, your distributor is actually spinning properly inside the cap, you have compression in all cylinders and you actually have proper fuel pressure. In fuel injection, just because you smell fuel doesn't mean everything is hunky dory. Injectors need high pressure to create the atomized fuel stream otherwise you get a puddle in the piston that doesn't do anything and can actually snuff the spark out. A fuel relay may be a common problem but so are fuel pressure regulators and that would cause a problem with starting/running.
South Florida is a hostile environment. High humidity and low night time temps causes condensation is stuff like fuel tanks and engine blocks. It can cause rust, sludge and even molds and I wouldn't doubt that you have some gunk from condensation in your your fuel tank clogging a fuel rail or regulator somewhere.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
the head is sohc 4 valves per cyl..vtec..to inspect the belt is close to impossible...that's what i gotta do...my step-son is recovering from a traumatic brain injury..so, his hard drive is a little scrambled just yet...we'll get there, tho
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the head is sohc 4 valves per cyl..vtec..to inspect the belt is close to impossible...that's what i gotta do...my step-son is recovering from a traumatic brain injury..so, his hard drive is a little scrambled just yet...we'll get there, tho
Probably not a timing issue, because IIRC the vtec engines are interferance engines and it's a MUST to be sure and do timing belt changes at the intervals suggested.
If you had a timing issue the valve train would most likely already be damaged. It could be some type of cold start sensor, etc.
I say pull the OBDII diagnostic codes and go from there.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Some cars with multiple valve heads are interferance engines, meaning if you slip even one tooth on the timing belt the valves will hit each other or the piston or both and do serious damage.
I guess my point is, if it;s a multi-valve head and the timing did slip you'd most likely have valve damage. But that's not the case in every multi-valve head.
H9
In Hondas, it's not just multi-valve heads. Most of the Honda 4 cylinders and V6's are interference engines. Only the really small ones like the old 1.3L and the really big ones like the 2.4L 4 cylinders with 2 valves are non-interference.the head is sohc 4 valves per cyl..vtec..to inspect the belt is close to impossible...that's what i gotta do...my step-son is recovering from a traumatic brain injury..so, his hard drive is a little scrambled just yet...we'll get there, tho
There is an inspection port. Probably covered by a rubber plug, near the top of the timing gear housing. It should be on the backside, closest to the valve cover. A flathead screwdriver will pry it out. Get a flash light and someone to turn the key. Look in the hole with a flashlight while some one else turns the key. Movement should be obvious. Sometimes the belt will move around but the cog is the important part. You can also remove the valve cover and look if you so desire.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
I'm not going to start asking 20 questions here to try and figure out what's wrong. You haven't given nearly enough info to even begin thinking about it. What I will say though is that brake clean in the intake is a bad idea.
It's extremely caustic and will likely damage a myriad of sensors and seals in the intake. It really offers no benefit. It's meant for brakes, not intakes, that's why they call it brake cleaner and not brake and intake cleaner.
If the idea is to clean it, get yourself a can of throttle body cleaner and even then, that's a risk as well. Your problem has nothing to do with cleaning the intake out though. I can almost guarantee it. If you are looking to get it to start, then use ether and do not squirt it directly in to the intake. Create a misty fog in front of the throttle body as you are cranking the engine. It'll suck the fog in and that's all you need. Ether is extremely flammable but if it starts pooling in puddles, it's a potent solvent as well that will damage all kinds of gaskets and seals except urethane and cork gaskets.
If your timing belt did jump, most Honduh engines are interference engines and you could have a damaged valve train or a broken piston. If the engine sounds like it's "freewheeling" the you need to look in the inspection port of the timing cover and see if the top cog is spinning. You could also take the valve cover off and watch the cam. If nothing is moving, you need a new timing belt and maybe more work.
If everything is spinning then you need to verify that you actually have spark, your plug wires are attached to the spark plugs and the distributor cap in the proper order, your distributor is actually spinning properly inside the cap, you have compression in all cylinders and you actually have proper fuel pressure. In fuel injection, just because you smell fuel doesn't mean everything is hunky dory. Injectors need high pressure to create the atomized fuel stream otherwise you get a puddle in the piston that doesn't do anything and can actually snuff the spark out. A fuel relay may be a common problem but so are fuel pressure regulators and that would cause a problem with starting/running.
South Florida is a hostile environment. High humidity and low night time temps causes condensation is stuff like fuel tanks and engine blocks. It can cause rust, sludge and even molds and I wouldn't doubt that you have some gunk from condensation in your your fuel tank clogging a fuel rail or regulator somewhere.
thanks for your response -
thanks for your response
If the car runs on ether (also called starting fluid) then you have a fuel delivery or fuel pressure problem. If the car doesn't even sputter on ether, you have other issues ranging from ignition problems to no compression.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
just another suggestion to the mix
the Ignitor could be faulty. They are prone to no start conditions
http://extreme-check-engine-light-codes.com/blog/obd1-codes/no-starts-for-honda-civic/ -
thanks...will chk
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Can't the belt be tested by removing the dist cap? The rotor should move when the engine is trying to start.
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disneyjoe7 wrote: »Can't the belt be tested by removing the dist cap? The rotor should move when the engine is trying to start.
that would work, too -
i do have spark...i have to inspect the belt...i'm thinking it slipped...
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i do have spark...i have to inspect the belt...i'm thinking it slipped...
If it did, as has been stated several times before, with an interference engine you would notice (hear) damage to the valve train. Unless just slipping one tooth keeps the valves from hitting each other and/or a piston(s). Usually when the belt slips or breaks, it's catastrophic.
Certainly keep that thought, but I'd look elsewhere like PULLING THE DIAGNOSTIC CODES.
I guess this is hard to do since the car won't run (o it can't be driven somewhere), but that will give you best starting point, rather than guessing.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
true...i need the engine running to get codes
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AudioGenics wrote: »just another suggestion to the mix
the Ignitor could be faulty. They are prone to no start conditions
http://extreme-check-engine-light-codes.com/blog/obd1-codes/no-starts-for-honda-civic/
It's a shame that Google searching broken English search terms doesn't specify year. While your "suggestion" is applicable, it pertains mostly to OBDI and earlier ignition systems. The OP's vehicle is a 1996 model which, under federal law, was mandated to have an OBD-II system. Some 1996 model year cars were actually built in 1995 prior to the mandate being put in place and may have an OBD 1.5 system which is OBDII without the standardization of connectors and troubleshooting codes. The ignitor is not found in all OBDII ignition systems. So if the OP is going to check it, he should verify that his car actually has the part in it before going on a wild goose chase looking for it.
An easy verification, go to Rock Auto and use their online catalog. If your car has an ignitior, it'll be listed in the parts list for your year, make, model and engine.
http://www.rockauto.comI guess this is hard to do since the car won't run (o it can't be driven somewhere), but that will give you best starting point, rather than guessing.
H9
As long as the computer powers up, codes can be read.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
true...i need the engine running to get codes
No you don't. If it's OBD II, the codes are stored. A reader will be able to grab them. If it's a matter of getting the car to a reader then I understand what you are saying. But you can read the codes and since they are fairly standardized across all brands, a simple Google search for "Honda OBD codes" and then the numbers will tell you what the codes mean and give you a good place to start looking instead of "It doesn't start. What's wrong?"
Even if it's OBD I, you should be able to jump a lead in the fuse box and turn the key to the engine running position and the check engine light will flash a pattern of codes. Read that pattern, figure out the code and go look it up. The diagnostic info will be more cryptic but you can find a description in plain English online. The code will be something like 3 flashes, 4 flashes then 2 flashes for a code of "342". Look up "Honda OBD code 342" and you'll get some info for a good idea to find out what's going on.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
rock auto has an igniter for my car
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As long as the computer powers up, codes can be read.
My comment was geared toward the idea if he had to have the codes pulled somewhere like an Auto Zone, the car not running precludes him from getting it there to have the codes read.
So far it's my understanding that he has no diagnostic gear to do this on his own as the car sits.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
My comment was geared toward the idea if he had to have the codes pulled somewhere like an Auto Zone, the car not running precludes him from getting it there to have the codes read.
So far it's my understanding that he has no diagnostic gear to do this on his own as the car sits.
H9
He'd better get to pushin', then! Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
hoping they can loan one w a deposit maybe
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rock auto has an igniter for my car
Then that might be the or at least one of the culprits. If the ignitor is cheap, call up the local car parts store, see how much it is and if it's still cheap, throw that part at it. If it fixes it, great.
Fords have a similar part in the IAC which can cause all kinds of funny problems when it's malfunctioning. They aren't cheap though but many non-starting conditions are solved by replacing a beat IAC.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
hoping they can loan one w a deposit maybe
Autozone used to rent them out. You basically have to buy it for the deposit but they only put a hold on the credit card. Once it's returned, thy release the hold. If you don't return it, they charge you and you now own a scan tool.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
Bet the timing belt broke. Happened to me in my Subie, I started it, backing down the driveway it just stopped. It broke and off to the dealer it went.Computer room Hegeman 1 SpeakersM&K VX-80 subKenwood DP-7010Cambridge Audio CXC Transport Rega DACPrimaLuna Prologue Four AmpAric Audio Tube PreampGarage Jennings Research SquareCustom tube preampCrown XLS-1000Denon DCD-1500II Modded MSB Link DAC
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Wow, again if the timing belt broke it would result in catastrophic faliure of the valve train. I'm sure there are a few documented instances where someone got lucky with an interference engine and there was little to no damage, but if the timing belt broke on this Honda you would know it.
Is anyone else going to chime in about a broken timing belt?
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Wow, again if the timing belt broke it would result in catastrophic faliure of the valve train. I'm sure there are a few documented instances where someone got lucky with an interference engine and there was little to no damage, but if the timing belt broke on this Honda you would know it.
Is anyone else going to chime in about a broken timing belt?
H9
what if it broke on start up attempt? what if it skipped? what if it's hanging on by a thread and is about to break? this is what i'm going to look at...then i'll rent a scan tool..to figure out if the igniter is suspect -
Fuel, fire, air, and then it gets tough.
I don't understand why the starter was changed.
If it was spinning over when you turn the key, move
to the next troubleshooting step.
There are a lot of different control devices on a car from the
mid-90's on up. Either get a manual, a code reader, and a meter,
or call a tow truck from the garage. A manual is the 1st thing
I get for a car. Why guess, when you can just follow the charts?"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
sucks2beme wrote: »Fuel, fire, air, and then it gets tough.
I don't understand why the starter was changed.
If it was spinning over when you turn the key, move
to the next troubleshooting step.
There are a lot of different control devices on a car from the
mid-90's on up. Either get a manual, a code reader, and a meter,
or call a tow truck from the garage. A manual is the 1st thing
I get for a car. Why guess, when you can just follow the charts?
i replaced the starter because it sounded like it was just spinning..since the solenoid is not sold separately, i got the whole thing..i have the old one back on the car...i have a manual...i'll be getting a scan tool tonite...if no luck tonight, then she goes on the flatbed -
what if it broke on start up attempt? what if it skipped? what if it's hanging on by a thread and is about to break? this is what i'm going to look at...then i'll rent a scan tool..to figure out if the igniter is suspect
If it broke at start up, catastrophic most likely.
If it skipped, catastrophic
If it's hanging by a thread, car should run as normal until it breaks or skips, then catastrophic.
Do you understand what is meant by "interference" valve train?
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
