anyone have honda civic know-how?

sda2mike
sda2mike Posts: 3,131
edited May 2011 in The Clubhouse
i have a 96 civic ex..trying to squeeze the last reliable drops out of it...car was running like a top...parked it friday..came home sunday..wont start...car has spark and compression...at 1st i thought starter..but the new one was the same as the old...distributor has 28k on it..plugs are clean...wires new..

tonight i'll try some brake cleen in the intake


any thoughts???

mike
Post edited by sda2mike on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
«134

Comments

  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited May 2011
    Could be a fuel pump relay under the dash, I know Accord had one. Open your windows let the car cool down, and it should start ok if its a relay issue.


    Steve

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    car is cool...i hear the pump prime up when i turn the key...so the relay is good..i pulled a spk plug and it smelled of fuel
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • AudioGenics
    AudioGenics Posts: 2,567
    edited May 2011
    just a thought ...
    try removing the spark plugs ( it is only four )
    cleaning them and checking the gap.
    Let it air out so any residual gasoline has evaporated. while you let that clear
    Clean the distributor cap and rotor.

    if you have a timing light to check ... how old is the timing belt ?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited May 2011
    Get a loaner OBD-II code reader from Autozone & pull codes. Could be a million things at this point....
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    AudioGenics wrote: »
    just a thought ...
    try removing the spark plugs ( it is only four )
    cleaning them and checking the gap.
    Let it air out so any residual gasoline has evaporated. while you let that clear
    Clean the distributor cap and rotor.

    if you have a timing light to check ... how old is the timing belt ?

    timing belt is due..it's 9 yrs old...95k on it...chkd the dist cap last nite..clean...the dist cap, rotor, wires and plugs have 28k on them..very weerd
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    Get a loaner OBD-II code reader from Autozone & pull codes. Could be a million things at this point....


    do they let you take the tester home? or is it just for use in the parking lot?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,957
    edited May 2011
    sda2mike wrote: »
    timing belt is due..it's 9 yrs old...95k on it...chkd the dist cap last nite..clean...the dist cap, rotor, wires and plugs have 28k on them..very weerd

    The distributor cap, maybe clean but is it worn ? How many miles on the car ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    tonyb wrote: »
    The distributor cap, maybe clean but is it worn ? How many miles on the car ?

    the cap is in good shape..no wear detectable...cap, rotor, wires and plugs have 28k on them...car has 188k
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2011
    sda2mike wrote: »
    timing belt is due..it's 9 yrs old...95k on it...chkd the dist cap last nite..clean...the dist cap, rotor, wires and plugs have 28k on them..very weerd

    A 1996 automobile still has a distributor cap and rotor? I would never have guessed. One would think it was all electronic ignition. My old GTi (1991) had starting issues if the cap and rotor were worn. At 28K it might be time for new ones. Give it a shot, even if they don't look that worn to the eye.
    I was always amazed how much better the car ran and started with frequent cap and rotor changes.

    Just a thought

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2011
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    Get a loaner OBD-II code reader from Autozone & pull codes. Could be a million things at this point....

    Not sure a car with cap and rotor is OBDII, I'd have to do some research.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2011
    You never stated if the car is turning over and just not catching or if it's dead. Since you replaced the starter I can only assume it's dead (as in not turning over) if that's the case most of the above won't have anything to do with it being dead. Not sure why you would replace the starter if the motor was turning over but not catching. :confused::confused::confused:

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited May 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Not sure a car with cap and rotor is OBDII, I'd have to do some research.

    H9

    ??

    OBD-II was mandated in 95 or 96 if I remember correctly.


    I just re-read 1st post; do you mean it's not turning over? That's an entirely different issue.
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited May 2011
    I bet you kicked a relay out getting out of it on Friday.

    Climb under the dash and check them all. It is amazing how easy it is to hit them in some cars.

    Also, as you have a distributor, maybe you can check the coil. They don't usually give much warning before failing.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Not sure a car with cap and rotor is OBDII, I'd have to do some research.

    H9

    it's 96 h9, it has a connector under the dash:wink:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2011
    TNRabbit wrote: »
    ??

    OBD-II was mandated in 95 or 96 if I remember correctly.

    that's going to be the fastest way to determine where to begin troubleshooting.

    Yeah, but with the ignition not being fully electronic how does it communicate with the On Board Diagnostics II? Again, not being a mechanic and owning VW's my entire life and them having electronic ignition form 1993 on I am a little foggy in that area.

    But absolutely, if you can scan for fault codes that's the first thing to do.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TNRabbit
    TNRabbit Posts: 2,168
    edited May 2011
    Having a cap/rotor doesn't mean it's not electronic ignition....my 94 Toyota truck has a cap/rotor & it has electronic ignition/fuel injection and it's OBD-I compliant (you can read the codes manually or with computer).
    TNRabbit
    NO Polk Audio Equipment :eek:
    Sunfire TG-IV
    Ashly 1001 Active Crossover
    Rane PEQ-15 Parametric Equalizers x 2
    Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Seven
    Carver AL-III Speakers
    Klipsch RT-12d Subwoofer
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    You never stated if the car is turning over and just not catching or if it's dead. Since you replaced the starter I can only assume it's dead (as in not turning over) if that's the case most of the above won't have anything to do with it being dead. Not sure why you would replace the starter if the motor was turning over but not catching. :confused::confused::confused:

    H9

    i replaced the starter because it seemed like it was free-spinning and not engaging the flywheel. i put the new one in and of course, same result...i had my step-son confirm that there is spark, fuel and compression...so, it does crank..it's like the timing suddenly went out???
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited May 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Yeah, but with the ignition not being fully electronic how does it communicate with the On Board Diagnostics II? Again, not being a mechanic and owning VW's my entire life and them having electronic ignition form 1993 on I am a little foggy in that area.

    But absolutely, if you can scan for fault codes that's the first thing to do.

    H9

    I am also a VW owner. On my 5th now. Just to clarify, only the VR6 and TDI had a coil pack electronic ignition for that long. The 2.0 had a distributor and coil until at least 98. And they were OBDII compliant in 95.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2011
    sda2mike wrote: »
    i replaced the starter because it seemed like it was free-spinning and not engaging the flywheel. i put the new one in and of course, same result...i had my step-son confirm that there is spark, fuel and compression...so, it does crank..it's like the timing suddenly went out???

    So is it now engaging the flywheel or still free spinning?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2011
    Joe08867 wrote: »
    I am also a VW owner. On my 5th now. Just to clarify, only the VR6 and TDI had a coil pack electronic ignition for that long. The 2.0 had a distributor and coil until at least 98. And they were OBDII compliant in 95.

    Thanks Joe, I have 1997 VR6 GTi so I assumed all VW's had coil pack electronic ignition at that time. I had a 1995 Jetta 2.0 and I swear it had electronic ignition, I never changed the cap and rotor on that car. Mine was OBD I as it was an early 1995.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited May 2011
    I wonder if your belt jumped timing. If it is due to be changed it may have slipped and your timing went with it..
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    So is it now engaging the flywheel or still free spinning?

    it SEEMED like it was free-spinning...i pulled a spk plug and when cranking, it has compression and spark..the plug also smelled of fuel..
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    Joe08867 wrote: »
    I wonder if your belt jumped timing. If it is due to be changed it may have slipped and your timing went with it..

    hmmmmm.....that would be the worst case scenario:tongue: not an easy job at all
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2011
    Joe08867 wrote: »
    I wonder if your belt jumped timing. If it is due to be changed it may have slipped and your timing went with it..

    That is also a very good possibilty although 95K while a lot of miles isn't out of line for a std 4 cyl engine.

    Again if it's not engaging the flywheel, there could be other issues.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2011
    sda2mike wrote: »
    it SEEMED like it was free-spinning...i pulled a spk plug and when cranking, it has compression and spark..the plug also smelled of fuel..

    How can it have compression if the flywheel isn't moving? If you have compression then it's not freewheeling, IMO. Again, not a mechanic.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    How can it have compression if the flywheel isn't moving? If you have compression then it's not freewheeling, IMO. Again, not a mechanic.

    H9

    the starter free spinning was my 1st diagnosis.. i was wrong...i put the old starter back....the belt on the car is at 95k...the car has 188k...sorry for the confusion and thanks to everybody for the help:smile:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    step son suggests spraying brake cleen into the intake..i'll try that tonight
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited May 2011
    sda2mike wrote: »
    step son suggests spraying brake cleen into the intake..i'll try that tonight

    What will that do? You are getting fuel and spark. Is there a sensor in there like a Mass Air Flow sensor or something? Just wondering what the thought process is for that.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited May 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    What will that do? You are getting fuel and spark. Is there a sensor in there like a Mass Air Flow sensor or something? Just wondering what the thought process is for that.

    H9


    spark and fuel may not be enough? i dunno...he's a former ase cert mechanic...i'm thinking the belt theory makes sense here..like you, i'm no meshanik:wink:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Polkie2009
    Polkie2009 Posts: 3,834
    edited May 2011
    I had a Honda accord once that was running fine one day and the next time I tried starting it, the engine would turn freely but would not run. Broken timing belt.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter