Eliminate harshness?

jinjuku

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Interesting. this is definitely worth some consideration. I am going to go get some felt... currently, I tested the same concept with some wash rags... probably not ideal. What kind of inexpensive portable treatments could I get to test this out?

Go to Goodwill or Salvation Army and get some blankets. Use some 3M command strips to hang them on the wall. Should cost you ~$50 to test out.

outlander

If you’re easily bothered by harsh sounding audio then I would suggest checking out some tube gear.

cnh

Lots of great suggestions above. I agree with H9 mostly, I own two Adcoms and do not find them overly bright in any way--but that depends on what PRE you're running with them. I run an Onkyo/Integra P304 on one (adequate but by no means the 'best' by a long shot) and that combo sounds pretty smooth--except on 'certain' CDs which are just 'badly' produced--you can't get diamonds from nothing.

As far as room treatments...certainly give that a try. My rooms all have lots of furniture, soft surfaces, cloth curtains and hardly 'anything' to reflect off of...and some CDPs and music from my HD still sounds like yours? So that doesn't really work for me--it's an inherent problem in equipment. A TUBE buffer might help.

What I've decided to do is similar to what outlander suggests--I bought a Tube stage CDP to 'warm' up my collection and am adding a TUBE amp to that system as well.

Even so, I recently ran a Pioneer BDP 51 with the Integra pre-amp above and an Adcom GFA-555 (your smaller brother) and I was 'very' surprised by how well this combo 'behaved' on 'most' CDs.

I realize your money is tight...but if your main source is ripped files on an HD then you might want to search some of FACE's posts on the DAC unit that he uses. It ain't cheap but it sounds like a 'good' future investment. A lot of my collection is still Redbook CDs and I don't mind the physical medium even though having everything on an HD is very convenient!

cnh

fishbones

As has been said, there are many helpful tips here already, and pretty much any one of them, or a combination of them, could be your answer. Sorry it's not an easy answer, but it's true.

I have the same type of ears you do....well, maybe worse? Most systems are harsh to my ears in the treble region - even at low volumes. High volumes can be downright painful. The thing that has been the most successful for alleviating that in my own systems, has been getting tube preamps. When I switched to a tube pre, the harshness disappeared at medium-low volumes, and diminished tremendously at higher volumes. It would still be there when I pushed the speaker hard, but I don't do that much, so it wasn't an issue. Everytime I would reintroduce solid state preamps to my system (even well reviewed ones), the same harshness would come back. I think when you have sensitive ears like me, many things can be interacting to cause it (speakers, sources, amplification, room). Frankly, I thought it was just my ears and I was doomed with it on all systems.

Although....the new Zu Audio speakers I've gotten recently seemed to have given me a ray of hope. They are the first speakers I've ever been able to crank the volume way up to concert, wall-shaking levels without pain. I'm still checking to see if they're the speaker for me (still breaking in), but this one attribute has been absolutely awesome.

aboroth00

jinjuku wrote: »

I would recommend sweeping the room with REW. You need to visualize what the room is doing with some frequency sweeps.

A FR sweep will help determine whether you have peaks, which can definitely help show you why. Factors such as ringing and decay times might elucidate the situation as well. He can have a flat FR and still have problems with the room.

As far as not being an acoustician, there are steps you can do to start on room treatments. It is the most efficient way of getting the best sound of your speakers. Sure you can get tubes to mellow out the top end, but in the end the room is the problem and you're not addressing it

jinjuku

aboroth00 wrote: »

A FR sweep will help determine whether you have peaks, which can definitely help show you why. Factors such as ringing and decay times might elucidate the situation as well. He can have a flat FR and still have problems with the room.

As far as not being an acoustician, there are steps you can do to start on room treatments. It is the most efficient way of getting the best sound of your speakers. Sure you can get tubes to mellow out the top end, but in the end the room is the problem and you're not addressing it

Quite true.

CWV has a solid setup that shouldn't be fatiguing. This problem has followed through several speakers.

I've never understood the $1000 or $2000 tube fix for what may be a $300 in room treatment problem (that or a $2 resistor to pad the tweeter response if it measures hot). Even with tubes you still haven't corrected the real issue: The room.

The other thing that can be done with a sweep is limit it to the frequency range you believe this to be happening in.

It's frustrating to know you have a good setup and still not hitting the bulls eye SQ wise.

Get a Tascam USB 144MKII, Behringer ECM 8000 mic, mic stand and 25ft XLR patch. Install REW 5 on a laptop and read the help guide.

If you don't want to mess around with REW / Tascam / Mic:

Parts Express OmniMic system.

DarqueKnight

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

IDK if I am sensitive to high frequencies or something, but this has been an issue with every speaker... at low volumes, everything is cool... once I crank the volume, certain high frequencies, like guitars and vocals, hurt my ears.

Fluid buildup in the inner ear and some types of infections can cause the kind of pain and high frequency sensitivity you describe. If you have not already done so, I would advise seeing a doctor.

Hawkeye

pearsall001 wrote: »

Here's a great site that has a lot of info on the subject. http://www.getbettersound.com/. I have Jim's book & DVD's & by following just a few of his tips the difference has been stunning. More of his tips will be put to use & I expect the results to compound themselves.

Great recommendation Phil!! Jim's book is always about three feet away from me and I refer to it often. Some seemingly very insignicant items can have a huge impact on what sound is finally hitting our ears.

Gordon

cokewithvanilla

I will try putting as many blankets/pillows around as I have. My room is probably 11 feet wide where the speakers are... it's about 28 feet long with 9 foot ceilings.

Buying a tube pre, new dac, or a microphone system to do room corrections is probably out of question right now. I have to pay the deductible on my massively hail damaged car on top of everything else.

Unless I can use the pocket rta application to do some room corrections, I am going to be guessing with blankets atm.

How's this for a start?



that's ghetto..

Hawkeye

Get rid of the table for starters. Your getting some reflection off of it which is not helping in the least.

Gordon

Give us a pic of the room from the back wall.

pearsall001

Hawkeye wrote: »

Great recommendation Phil!! Jim's book is always about three feet away from me and I refer to it often. Some seemingly very insignicant items can have a huge impact on what sound is finally hitting our ears.

Gordon

Great stuff isn't it Gordon!! Just reading about this guys career & what he's done is truly remarkable. Talk about money well spent. Hopefully the OP will read the info on Jim & start getting his feet wet on this whole room issue & start making some inroads. You can swap out cables, gear all day long & not even come close to addressing the issue.

cokewithvanilla

Hawkeye wrote: »

Get rid of the table for starters. Your getting some reflection off of it which is not helping in the least.

Gordon

Give us a pic of the room from the back wall.

Can I cover it with a blanket?? I use it for support for my laptop :O



ok, that picture looks like ****, but whatever... the camera cant capture the whole room... theres probably 7-8 more feet with a couch on the back wall

WGDB

You are right "that's ghetto" - My sh@t looked very similar right after my divorce 10 years ago. Sorry Bro.....

Hawkeye

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Can I cover it with a blanket?? I use it for support for my laptop :O

Do you have a lap?:biggrin: Move the table to the back of the room and turn the couch 90 degrees and use it for you listening spot. That hard surface of the table is reflecting sound which may be irritating your ears.

Gordon

pearsall001

Those three open corners where the wall meets the ceiling in such a small space are causing a lot of slap echos that need to be addressed. Try stuffing a pillow in all three corners (it'll blend nicely with your room decor). Give it a try & listen to the results.

jinjuku

Coke, you know I luvya bro'. But that pistol on the table, you wouldn't happen to be firing it w/o ear protection would you?:biggrin:

That would explain some things.

Back on topic:

If you were to use some earphones (nice Audio Technica or AKG's) I wonder if it would trigger your sensitivity. You could try a pair from a local musicians supply and return them. This would cut a lot of the equipment, room acoustics, and placement out of the equation.

What city do you live in. May be that you could go over to another members house. I could ask on AH, AVS, or HTS for you also.

BlueFox

jinjuku wrote: »

Coke, you know I luvya bro'. But that pistol on the table, you wouldn't happen to be firing it w/o ear protection would you?

That is what he uses when he opens the door to somebody knocking. :rolleyes:

cokewithvanilla

pearsall001 wrote: »

Those three open corners where the wall meets the ceiling in such a small space are causing a lot of slap echos that need to be addressed. Try stuffing a pillow in all three corners (it'll blend nicely with your room decor). Give it a try & listen to the results.

haha, I laughed at that one.

Don't you worry, I think I have the perfect ones to compliment my already beautiful living room.

jinjuku wrote: »

Coke, you know I luvya bro'. But that pistol on the table, you wouldn't happen to be firing it w/o ear protection would you?:biggrin:

That would explain some things.

Back on topic:

If you were to use some earphones (nice Audio Technica or AKG's) I wonder if it would trigger your sensitivity. You could try a pair from a local musicians supply and return them. This would cut a lot of the equipment, room acoustics, and placement out of the equation.

What city do you live in. May be that you could go over to another members house. I could ask on AH, AVS, or HTS for you also.

It's actually been collecting lint in its holster for months... haven't been to the range in a while. Though I put a few hundred rounds through some clays, a few hundred more through cans and whatnot with ak, ar, some 9mms and a little .22 without ear protection not too long ago (actually, hundreds through that little guy alone... walmart had some 550 rd boxes for like $15). Not the smartest thing, but hey.

When I was at trey's, I noticed some ear pain... but he listens at crazy volumes (no offense... but you do listen at crazy volumes :biggrin:). My next door neighbor, who is a complete tool, has a decent system with some Mirage speakers and I think I noticed the same a few years back....

I know with some crappy headphones I have that I used to lower the treble while I was at the gym... I had an 08 maxima a few years back with some amazing bose speakers (joke) and they hurt my ears on Eagles - The last resort off of the hell freezes over cd.

cokewithvanilla

BlueFox wrote: »

That is what he uses when he opens the door to somebody knocking. :rolleyes:

especially when they're girl scouts... that lot is not to be trusted. If you would like more information on personal defense, please visit my website for shocking tales of frightening encounters with enemies like the mall easter bunny, ronald mcdonald, and that guy in a cow suit. These tales are sure to frighten you down to your very core. But don't despair, I will guide you through these difficult situations and explain the possible pitfalls, in case, god forbid, you ever find yourself in such peril.


ok, so I've been trying to stick some pillows in the corners, and it's almost as if they were not made with that intention.... think maybe towels would do?

cokewithvanilla

Not noticing much of a difference here... maybe some more accurate bass... I am pretty much using all my pillows/blankets... but I couldn't get anything to defy gravity long enough on the ceiling. I need nails.

treitz3

treitz3 wrote: »

Do you have any type of CD player that you can connect? A portable unit, a mini-stack, walkman, anything that you can use to eliminate certain things. From what you just mentioned, I'm now questioning your source. At the very least something downstream from that to the Adcom.

Once more...

cnh

That is an awkward room...a bit of a tunnel, but I'm not surprised that the magical room treatments are not yielding earthmoving results?

And I fully identify with your post about losing it above..as my system rarely sounds the same 'twice'. One day things look good, the next...eh they sounded better yesterday, then even worse..then it rains and "hey what happened--that's not bad! Then...sometimes I just feel like pulling the few hairs I have left up there and saying I give up. This even happened to me at Polkfest last fall. The 'same' system that blew me away on Friday was ho-hum on Saturday! Wonder if my hearing is fickle?

You're not alone.

But as for the harshness I'd second where treitz3 is going above.

cnh

cokewithvanilla

treitz3 wrote: »

Once more...

Sorry, I must've missed your post... short answer...no. I've not owned a cd player, walkman, or such like since I was in grade school. I can switch out the computer with a different one, but that's about it.

cnh wrote: »

That is an awkward room...a bit of a tunnel, but I'm not surprised that the magical room treatments are not yielding earthmoving results?

And I fully identify with your post about losing it above..as my system rarely sounds the same 'twice'. One day things look good, the next...eh they sounded better yesterday, then even worse..then it rains and "hey what happened--that's not bad! Then...sometimes I just feel like pulling the few hairs I have left up there and saying I give up. This even happened to me at Polkfest last fall. The 'same' system that blew me away on Friday was ho-hum on Saturday! Wonder if my hearing is fickle?

You're not alone.

But as for the harshness I'd second where treitz3 is going above.

cnh

At least you have acknowledged that these room treatments are, in fact, magical

That's good to hear... cause I thought I was crazy.

treitz3

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Sorry, I must've missed your post... short answer...no. I've not owned a cd player, walkman, or such like since I was in grade school. I can switch out the computer with a different one, but that's about it.

Let's try this. How about switching the computer for now? I don't know where you live but we may be able to hook you up with another source. Do you have a DVD player, perhaps?

cokewithvanilla

treitz3 wrote: »

Let's try this. How about switching the computer for now? I don't know where you live but we may be able to hook you up with another source. Do you have a DVD player, perhaps?

I will change out the computer right now... my other one is running benchmarks anyhow.

Nope, no dvd players, bd players.. nothin. I'm 100% digital media.

edit: oh, both will be running through the HRT streamer, so I really don't expect much of a difference.

cokewithvanilla

Ok, so I am listening on the laptop now... and I would like to say that it is better as I am currently testing for hardware issues on the desktop because Jriver is mad unstable, and the computer has a few other issues. however, I cannot be certain that it sounds different... at all.

Harshness is still there in certain passages.. I am noticing it at around 70-75db (on RTA.. I don't know how accurate it actually is). Now, today it is not terrible... just not something you'd want to listen to. The worst offender so far, Angels of the silences, is bearable around 65-68.. I'd probably want to listen at 60

So far (today), everything sounds good at around 60-65db... to be honest, that is not a huge drawback, as that is probably my preferred listening level.

Sriracha sauce is tasty... i've used like half this bottle in a week

treitz3

Alright, to solve your concerns, look at borrowing a source that utilizes a real CD or DVD. This is now priority number one. Then we'll work on the table and your other issues.

Face

Are you using ASIO drivers to bypass Window's mixing or does the HRT have it's own proprietary drivers?

cokewithvanilla

Face wrote: »

Are you using ASIO drivers to bypass Window's mixing or does the HRT have it's own proprietary drivers?

using WASAPI

jbooker82

How well do you like the speakers? I just had trey moddify my RTI A7's and CSI A4 center xo's. He used Mills resistors, and Clarity Caps ESA, and PX. It really took the edge off the tweeters. It was a pretty big change for them. That might be something to consider too.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118120