Logitech Squeezebox Touch vs. Duet

heiney9

DMara wrote: »

Thanks for the clarification, guys. That'll help me stop looking for it obsessively :biggrin:




Congrats I'm thinking about following your footstep. However I am also looking at acquiring a Wyred 4 Sound Dac-2 as an external DAC/pre-amp solution. I might spend my money there first before getting to Bolder.

If you go with the external dac, then all you really need to upgrade on the Touch is the power supply. Just so you are aware Bolder doesn't sell upgraded power supplies for the Squeezebox products. They modify the ELPAC which has been discontinued for a few years. You can buy used on EBay and then send to Bolder for modification, but the better solution is this.

http://www.welbornelabs.com/squeeze.htm

A bunch of us from RAS (our little local audio group) bought these when we bought out Touch's and they really do improve the sound over the el-cheapo stock switching wal-wart power supply.

H9

DMara

Thanks for another cool info, H9

FTGV

nspindel wrote: »

Btw, got my shipping confirmation that my modded Touch is complete and Wayne (Bolder Cable) has shipped it to me. I should be 2496-tastic next week.

What does his mod entail?

nspindel

heiney9 wrote: »

If you go with the external dac, then all you really need to upgrade on the Touch is the power supply. Just so you are aware Bolder doesn't sell upgraded power supplies for the Squeezebox products. They modify the ELPAC which has been discontinued for a few years. You can buy used on EBay and then send to Bolder for modification, but the better solution is this.

http://www.welbornelabs.com/squeeze.htm

A bunch of us from RAS (our little local audio group) bought these when we bought out Touch's and they really do improve the sound over the el-cheapo stock switching wal-wart power supply.

H9

Ditto, I built that same power supply for my Bolder-modded SB3. Given that I'm going to be demoting the SB3 to a non-audiophile system, I'm planning on using the stock Touch power supply with the SB3, and then using the Welbourne with the modded Touch.

nspindel

FTGV wrote: »

What does his mod entail?

http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/-strse-413/Logitech%2C-Touch%2C-mod%2C-24-dsh-96%2C/Detail

FTGV

Thanks,so essentially just improving the voltage regulation to the SPDIF transmitter.

nspindel

I have a Benchmark DAC-1, so for my use all I care about is the SPDIF.

Do a little searching on Wayne's mods. You'll find lots of happy customers. From what I read, the Touch is far better out of the box than the SB3, so the less there is that needs modding. That's also why it costs a lot less for his Touch mods than for the SB3. I had a good enough experience with his SB3 work, that after reading enough reviews of his Touch mods I didn't even need to have it proven to me, I just ordered a Touch and had it sent straight to him.

AsSiMiLaTeD

I still may get my Touch modded one day when the audio fund gets replenished, but it really does sound great right out of the box.

nspindel

You've got it paired with a 24-bit DAC? Or are you using the analog outs?

FTGV

The Bolder mod would IMO be of benifit to the users of the digital out to separate DAC,whereas the the better PS like the Welbourrne might prove even more benificial to those that untilize the Touch's analog outs.(Just surmizing as I have no personal experience)

heiney9

nspindel wrote: »

Ditto, I built that same power supply for my Bolder-modded SB3. Given that I'm going to be demoting the SB3 to a non-audiophile system, I'm planning on using the stock Touch power supply with the SB3, and then using the Welbourne with the modded Touch.

I was told the SB3 and Touch use different voltages so be sure to do the proper research before swapping supplies.

H9

heiney9

FTGV wrote: »

The Bolder mod would IMO be of benifit to the users of the digital out to separate DAC,whereas the the better PS like the Welbourrne might prove even more benificial to those that untilize the Touch's analog outs.(Just surmizing as I have no personal experience)

The linear supply makes a difference even when using the digital outs. I was skeptical as well, but I did notice a darker background, less hash and better defintion and better soundstage cues.

It was subtle, but it was there and noticable once I started switching supplies in and out.

H9

nspindel

heiney9 wrote: »

I was told the SB3 and Touch use different voltages so be sure to do the proper research before swapping supplies.

H9

No, that's not true. They're both 5 volts. The difference is that the stock power supply for the SB3, besides being overall inferior to, puts out less power than the stock Touch supply. This is not because the Touch itself requires more power, but rather the Touch has the capability of powering an external device via the USB connection. The Welbourne puts out enough power to be used in this way. I corresponded with Welbourne, they confirmed that the power supply is identical. And Wayne from Bolder is the one who advised me to use the Touch stock power supply with his modded SB3 rather than going back to the stock SB3 power supply when I claim the Welbourne for the new Touch.

FTGV

heiney9 wrote: »

The linear supply makes a difference even when using the digital outs. I was skeptical as well, but I did notice a darker background, less hash and better defintion and better soundstage cues.

It was subtle, but it was there and noticable once I started switching supplies in and out.

H9

Yes Brock I was just surmising that the benifits of the better supply would be even more apparent when utilizing the onboard DAC's and analog stages.

nspindel

heiney9 wrote: »

The linear supply makes a difference even when using the digital outs. I was skeptical as well, but I did notice a darker background, less hash and better defintion and better soundstage cues.

It was subtle, but it was there and noticable once I started switching supplies in and out.

H9

That confirms a lot of reading that I did. I've seen several people reporting that using the linear supply improves the digital side as well, and Wayne advises using a linear supply to get the most out of the digital-only mods.

The interesting test for me is going to be the digital outs on the modded SB3 vs. the digital outs on the modded Touch, when playing 16 bit audio. I can have them both as inputs to my DAC-1 Pre, and just flip a switch between the two. Wayne even said on one of his threads that the stock Touch sounds as good as his modded SB3. So hopefully the modded Touch is noticeably better than the modded SB3, but we'll see.

heiney9

FTGV wrote: »

Yes Brock I was just surmising that the benifits of the better supply would be even more apparent when utilizing the onboard DAC's and analog stages.

I would agree, although I have yet to use the analog output. I did with the SB2 I had before the Touch, but the difference was so apparent (using the Adcom Dac) even with the stock supply, I never tried the analog portion of the Touch.

If/when I have $300 laying around burning a hole in my audio pocket it might be worth it to have the digital mods done. Buying a new house has put new audio toys on hold temporarily.

H9

AsSiMiLaTeD

Are you guys using any special settings on your Touch, I've read somewhere about letting the PC doing the decoding instead of the Touch, that sound familiar to anyone?

AsSiMiLaTeD

Also, just another confirmation the the SB3 and the Touch do indeed use the same voltage, I've tried both power supplies on both, and have run the modded ELPAC I got from Brock both on the SB3 and the Touch, and it works great.

heiney9

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

Are you guys using any special settings on your Touch, I've read somewhere about letting the PC doing the decoding instead of the Touch, that sound familiar to anyone?

Sorry Dan, I did get your PM and forgot to reply. The only thing I make sure of is the volume is at max. It seems I read somewhere this is essentially the same as disabling the volume control as one can do on the SB2 and SB3. You can't disable the vol. control on the Touch.

I stream wireless from the PC to the Touch and then to an outboard dac, so I can't comment on your 2nd question. Not sure I understand what you're asking? When someone says decoding I assume they mean digital to analog. Explain please.

H9

adam2434

I think he may be referring streaming FLAC natively and having the SB convert to PCM vs. having the server software convert to PCM, and therefore streaming PCM.

I've tried both ways and could never tell any difference.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Yep that's what I was asking about

nspindel

Happy reading:

http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html

AsSiMiLaTeD

I read that a few days back, but right now I need wireless so cannot proceed with his toolbox

scottyboy76

Please excuse me, Im honestly too old , busy with sick wife mother in law and mother, to keep up with a lot of new tech.

Trying to put together a nice{for me} 2 channell rig.

Just started to pay attention to squeezebox type playback and have found many happy users.

But am i correct that people are already having to modify this thing to get it to do as well as it could, i mean really.

Also, after looking at logitech site, i could find nothing affirming you can burn to cds or dvds or such, so if my squeezebox ended up getting dropped or something, it is not just a **** box having lost all my 18 dollar album download.

Im sincerely asking, cus i cant do mods and stuff.

Am i back to trying to find a good deal on cdp or dac and transport or something.

mdaudioguy

scottyboy76 wrote: »

Please excuse me, Im honestly too old , busy with sick wife mother in law and mother, to keep up with a lot of new tech.

Trying to put together a nice{for me} 2 channell rig.

Just started to pay attention to squeezebox type playback and have found many happy users.

But am i correct that people are already having to modify this thing to get it to do as well as it could, i mean really.

Also, after looking at logitech site, i could find nothing affirming you can burn to cds or dvds or such, so if my squeezebox ended up getting dropped or something, it is not just a **** box having lost all my 18 dollar album download.

Im sincerely asking, cus i cant do mods and stuff.

Am i back to trying to find a good deal on cdp or dac and transport or something.

People are modifying all sorts of gear. Nobody has to mod this. It will sound pretty nice on it's own - similar to how a decent CD player would, right out of the box. And you'll always find someone who wants to mod that CD player...

No music is stored on these devices, if that's what you were referring to by what could happen if you dropped it. Squeezebox Server allows you to stream music stored elsewhere (mostly commonly from a computer), and play it back through your audio system.

nspindel

You would burn a cd or transcode to any other format on your computer, the Squeezebox is purely a player.

nspindel

FYI, I finally installed the software mods detailed in the soundcheck blog posted above. Definitely noticed a change, sounded like things opened up and there's just more of everything. Very happy with the modded Touch -> W4S Dac2 combo.

DMara

nspindel wrote: »

FYI, I finally installed the software mods detailed in the soundcheck blog posted above. Definitely noticed a change, sounded like things opened up and there's just more of everything. Very happy with the modded Touch -> W4S Dac2 combo.

Would you please let us know if the software mods will be kept intact after a Squeezebox firmware update?

nspindel

They will not. You need to reapply the mods when you do a firmware upgrade. They also will disappear if you factory refresh the Touch, all pointing to this being a very "safe" (i.e. easily recoverable, low bricking risk) modification. All told, I'd say repeating the procedure after you're familiar with it will take about 15 minutes. Most of that time is spent waiting for the reboots to cycle through, I'm guessing it reboots about 7 times throughout the process.

DMara

Thanks. I will try it this week.