Logitech Squeezebox Touch vs. Duet

245

Comments

  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    The file properties will say 2496. The file itself is 2496. But when Squeeze Center goes to play that file on anything other than a Touch or a Transporter, it downsamples. That right there is the primary reason why I just bought a Touch.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,724
    edited April 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    i think i remember something like this happening as well, a long time ago. Not quite sure what i did to fix it but haven't seen that happen in a very long time. What version of squeezecenter are you running?
    7.5.3
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,724
    edited April 2011
    Are all CDs 24/96, or what kind of files would this apply to?
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »
    Are all CDs 24/96, or what kind of files would this apply to?

    No. CD's aren't the problem. CD's are 16/44. They'll play just fine. It's hi-rez audio that's the issue.

    Generally speaking, music is recorded in an analog format, and then converted to 24-bit digital. For cd release, the 24-bit is downsampled to 16-bit and released to the masses. An example of 24-bit music would be SACD, but SACD does not provide a bit perfect 24-bit digital output, you generally would only use the internal DAC of an SACD player and play via it's analog outputs. Nowadays, however, more and more 24 bit source material is making it to market via download. Check out HDTracks.com for example. Also, lots of people are creating their own 2496 material off vinyl needle drops.

    These are the types of files that I'm buying the Touch for, so I can play them at native resolution, rather than downsampling.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »
    7.5.3

    I actually had a lot of stability problems with 7.5.3, and I saw posters online with similar issues. I never downloaded 7.5.2, so I ended up moving back to 7.5.1, and I'm fine again. Not saying that will solve your problem, but it cleared up the issues I had. I'm hoping a 7.5.4 comes out soon enough, or even 7.6. Heaven forbid, 8.0!!!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,724
    edited April 2011
    Can I still find 7.5.1 online ?
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    http://downloads.slimdevices.com/
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,724
    edited April 2011
    7.5.1 solved my issue, weird but ok
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,724
    edited April 2011
    I decided to pick up a Touch on the way home last night. Ultimately I want support for HD audio and my wife likes the touch screen (even though we have an iPad). I've heard lots of discussion around the Touch having upgraded DACs and a significantly better sound, and thought I'd comment on that.

    I spent quite a bit of time listening to both last night using the analog outputs and I gotta be honest, I just don't hear it.

    I'm sure there are technical differences between the DACs, but I just don't hear the difference with lossless audio (have not tried compressed mp3 files yet). My system isn't super high end or anything, but its got a good amount of resolution, enough to the point where I can hear the difference in ICs and speaker cables - if there was a huge difference I should be hearing it on this system.

    I ran both SBs with the upgraded ELPAC power supply for the testing. Note I tested only the analog outputs, so the Touch may very well be better in the digital domain, I wouldn't know yet.

    The Touch does have other advantages over the Classic, mainly a touch screen and support for hi-res audio files, but for those looking to the Touch for a significant upgrade on the analog audio side, I just don't hear it.
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited April 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    Squeezebox Classic, aka Squeezebox 3 is wireless. I have one that I can sell, actually, because I have a Touch on order, and I'll end up with a spare player (have 4 already...). PM me if you're interested.
    PM sent, $ sent, looking forward to expanding my home audio network. Great deal - thanks Neil! :smile:

    Ed

    Oh, and I'll probably have a Touch w/in a week, too! Yay!
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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited April 2011
    AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »
    I decided to pick up a Touch on the way home last night. Ultimately I want support for HD audio and my wife likes the touch screen (even though we have an iPad). I've heard lots of discussion around the Touch having upgraded DACs and a significantly better sound, and thought I'd comment on that.

    I spent quite a bit of time listening to both last night using the analog outputs and I gotta be honest, I just don't hear it.

    I'm sure there are technical differences between the DACs, but I just don't hear the difference with lossless audio (have not tried compressed mp3 files yet). My system isn't super high end or anything, but its got a good amount of resolution, enough to the point where I can hear the difference in ICs and speaker cables - if there was a huge difference I should be hearing it on this system.

    I ran both SBs with the upgraded ELPAC power supply for the testing. Note I tested only the analog outputs, so the Touch may very well be better in the digital domain, I wouldn't know yet.

    The Touch does have other advantages over the Classic, mainly a touch screen and support for hi-res audio files, but for those looking to the Touch for a significant upgrade on the analog audio side, I just don't hear it.

    I'm hearing you. I've had trouble discerning the differences between DACs. Hoping to get my ears on a good one tonight at our little B-more get-together. MillerLiteScott runs his Touch through a tubed DAC. I'll post my impressions either here or on his get-together thread.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    mdaudioguy wrote: »
    PM sent, $ sent, looking forward to expanding my home audio network. Great deal - thanks Neil! :smile:

    Ed

    Oh, and I'll probably have a Touch w/in a week, too! Yay!

    Hope you enjoy Ed. Just sent it off Priority Mail, my guess is you will have it on Tuesday.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »
    I decided to pick up a Touch on the way home last night. Ultimately I want support for HD audio and my wife likes the touch screen (even though we have an iPad). I've heard lots of discussion around the Touch having upgraded DACs and a significantly better sound, and thought I'd comment on that.

    I spent quite a bit of time listening to both last night using the analog outputs and I gotta be honest, I just don't hear it.

    I'm sure there are technical differences between the DACs, but I just don't hear the difference with lossless audio (have not tried compressed mp3 files yet). My system isn't super high end or anything, but its got a good amount of resolution, enough to the point where I can hear the difference in ICs and speaker cables - if there was a huge difference I should be hearing it on this system.

    I ran both SBs with the upgraded ELPAC power supply for the testing. Note I tested only the analog outputs, so the Touch may very well be better in the digital domain, I wouldn't know yet.

    The Touch does have other advantages over the Classic, mainly a touch screen and support for hi-res audio files, but for those looking to the Touch for a significant upgrade on the analog audio side, I just don't hear it.

    I don't have mine yet, so I haven't heard it with my own ears yet, but my two cents....

    I learned years ago that every single piece of audio gear, regardless of quality, benefits from break in time. For amps, speakers, and speaker cables, it's a bit painful because you need to have the gear playing to break in. For a source such as a Squeezebox, break in doesn't require the amp being on, so it's easy as can be to let it just do it's thing and break in. I would let that thing cycle in repeat mode for 100 hours before doing any real critical listening. It always amazes me how much audio equipment opens up after a decent break in period. Let it play in an endless loop, and give it an a/b comparison on Thursday night or Friday, and see if you notice a difference then.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • DMara
    DMara Posts: 1,434
    edited April 2011
    Another question: If I run the Duet receiver or the Touch receiver to an external DAC via a digital cable, then the external DAC will process the digital-to-analog conversion instead of those Squeezebox receivers, and that means the Duet receiver is just the same as the Touch: just a bridge to deliver digital music to the external DAC, hence audio output quality is (almost) the same for both (outputting 24/96 hi-bit rate files will then depend only on the external DAC capability), is that right?
    Gears shared to both living room & bedroom:
    Integra DHC-80.3 / Oppo BDP-105 / DirecTV HR24 DVR /APC S15blk PC-UPS
    Living room:
    LSiM707's / LSiM706c / LSiM702 F/X's / dual JL Audio Fathom F113's / Parasound Halo A51 / Panasonic 65" TC-P65VT50
    Bedroom:
    Usher Dancer Mini 2 Diamond DMD's / Logitech SB Touch / W4S STP-SE / W4S DAC-2 / W4S ST-1000 / Samsung 52" LN52B750
    Other rooms:
    Audioengine AP4's / GLOW Audio Sub One / audio-gd NFB-3 DAC / Audioengine N22
    audio-gd NFB-10.2 / Denon AH-D7000
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited April 2011
    It would be worth it to re-rip whatever disks you have.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited April 2011
    Lasareath wrote: »
    Are you guys wiring up your whole house with speakers in every room and connecting these devices?

    For me I have 3 key locations where i listen to music. 1 sitting at my computer desk and I use itunes. 2 When I'm in my 2 channel room and I am using CDs & SACDs. 3 in the living room and I use my Xbox 360 to browse the content of my Server.

    I guess if I had a pair of speakers in every room then I would see the need for one of these devices?

    I just looked in my M drive on my server and I have 29,363 MP3's, but they are all 192bit to 320bit.

    I don't have any Flac. Is it really worth it for me to ad a SB with a library of just MP3s?

    Your in the same boat as me. I use the SB to play my music outdoors and in the living room. I use a Sony 7100ES to power my Atrium 60's as Zone 2. The SB can see all my files, Mp3's etc. 52,000 files and it never skips a beat. You will love it, I scored one way back on Ebay at a great price. Let the search begin Las.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    DMara wrote: »
    Another question: If I run the Duet receiver or the Touch receiver to an external DAC via a digital cable, then the external DAC will process the digital-to-analog conversion instead of those Squeezebox receivers, and that means the Duet receiver is just the same as the Touch: just a bridge to deliver digital music to the external DAC, hence audio output quality is (almost) the same for both (outputting 24/96 hi-bit rate files will then depend only on the external DAC capability), is that right?

    No, not correct. The Duet cannot handle 2496 files natively, even to pass through to a DAC. If you want to play 2496 without downsampling, you must use the Touch. That is true whether you use the digital or analog outputs. The 2496 files will play, but they will be downsampled by squeezecenter.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    Lasareath wrote: »
    Are you guys wiring up your whole house with speakers in every room and connecting these devices?

    For me I have 3 key locations where i listen to music. 1 sitting at my computer desk and I use itunes. 2 When I'm in my 2 channel room and I am using CDs & SACDs. 3 in the living room and I use my Xbox 360 to browse the content of my Server.

    I guess if I had a pair of speakers in every room then I would see the need for one of these devices?

    I just looked in my M drive on my server and I have 29,363 MP3's, but they are all 192bit to 320bit.

    I don't have any Flac. Is it really worth it for me to ad a SB with a library of just MP3s?

    You're mixing concepts a bit. One is a matter of convenience, the other is a matter of sound quality.

    Certainly you'd be able to play those 30,000 MP3's through a Squeezebox anywhere you wanted to put it, including your Carver/1.2TL rig. It will work just fine, but I couldn't see you being as satisfied with sound quality. Also, you can't rip the SACD's, so you'll never be completely rid of discs unless you were to find the equivalent hi-rez versions in 2496 flac. I searched for the Alison Kraus you played for me, for example, and didn't find it in hirez on HDTracks.

    In my setup, I have my entire collection ripped to Apple Lossless. Squeezebox can play ALAC. I have the ALAC library loaded into iTunes, so I can play on the computer. For my iPhone, I enable the setting in iTunes that downsamples the ALAC to 128kbps, which for me is good enough for the portable device. Sure, I could load the ALAC straight onto the iPhone, but then I can't fit anywhere near as much music on the phone.

    Squeezecenter points to the exact same set of ALAC files, and streams to my four players. My first player had been a modded Squeezebox 3, that's the one I'm now replacing with a Touch. My second player was a stock SB3, hooked up to my whole house system - that's the one I just sold to Ed, and is being replaced with the modded SB3. Then I have a Squeezebox Radio, that I use as an alarm clock. The fourth is a Squeezebox Boom, which I have in my office.

    I'm also able to stream the entire collection to my iphone or ipad using iPeng.

    Sal, in your case, unless you plan on doing a whole lot of re-ripping to lossless as Face suggests, I don't see a Squeezebox being much help for you in your two channel room.

    In your other locations, you're doing just fine streaming. So I wouldn't push you in the Squeezebox direction there either.

    If you were interested in re-ripping your cd's to lossless, you could start having a lot of fun with with a Squeezebox and a DAC in your 2-channel setup.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • DMara
    DMara Posts: 1,434
    edited April 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    No, not correct. The Duet cannot handle 2496 files natively, even to pass through to a DAC. If you want to play 2496 without downsampling, you must use the Touch. That is true whether you use the digital or analog outputs. The 2496 files will play, but they will be downsampled by squeezecenter.

    Capisce, now you've just made me think about upgrading to the Touch :mad::biggrin:
    Gears shared to both living room & bedroom:
    Integra DHC-80.3 / Oppo BDP-105 / DirecTV HR24 DVR /APC S15blk PC-UPS
    Living room:
    LSiM707's / LSiM706c / LSiM702 F/X's / dual JL Audio Fathom F113's / Parasound Halo A51 / Panasonic 65" TC-P65VT50
    Bedroom:
    Usher Dancer Mini 2 Diamond DMD's / Logitech SB Touch / W4S STP-SE / W4S DAC-2 / W4S ST-1000 / Samsung 52" LN52B750
    Other rooms:
    Audioengine AP4's / GLOW Audio Sub One / audio-gd NFB-3 DAC / Audioengine N22
    audio-gd NFB-10.2 / Denon AH-D7000
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    DMara wrote: »
    Capisce, now you've just made me think about upgrading to the Touch :mad::biggrin:

    Your other option is to get a Transporter. Stare at the cost of that for a little while.:eek: Then you won't feel so bad buying a Touch!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • DMara
    DMara Posts: 1,434
    edited April 2011
    Did pull the trigger on the Touch for $280 shipped from B&H via Amazon; it's on its way. By the way, I loaded iPeng on my iPod Touch yesterday but could not find out how to turn off the Squeezebox receiver with it. My Duet controller actually has that option right in the Home menu. Any of you guys figured out how to do that with iPeng? Controlling Squeezebox via iPod Touch is way way better than via the Duet controller icon14.gif
    Gears shared to both living room & bedroom:
    Integra DHC-80.3 / Oppo BDP-105 / DirecTV HR24 DVR /APC S15blk PC-UPS
    Living room:
    LSiM707's / LSiM706c / LSiM702 F/X's / dual JL Audio Fathom F113's / Parasound Halo A51 / Panasonic 65" TC-P65VT50
    Bedroom:
    Usher Dancer Mini 2 Diamond DMD's / Logitech SB Touch / W4S STP-SE / W4S DAC-2 / W4S ST-1000 / Samsung 52" LN52B750
    Other rooms:
    Audioengine AP4's / GLOW Audio Sub One / audio-gd NFB-3 DAC / Audioengine N22
    audio-gd NFB-10.2 / Denon AH-D7000
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  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,724
    edited April 2011
    Make sure you have the sb selected, then the power button is in the upper left corner. I have not tried it, but assume that's what it is for.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    Upper left? No, it's bottom left. Just to the left of the "|<<" button is a little icon, the shape of which is different depending on the type of player. Pushing that should toggle the player on and off.

    I agree, that cheap little app is way better than the Duet controller. Crazy huh?

    I bought my Touch from J&R via Amazon for $280 shipped several days ago, and haven't gotten any shipping confirmation yet. Bit peaved, actually.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • DMara
    DMara Posts: 1,434
    edited April 2011
    Thanks, guys. Yep, on my iPod Touch it was located at the bottom left as a squared camera-like blue/white button (for the Duet receiver).
    nspindel, you're right, my order was also from J&R via Amazon, not B&H. Somehow I remembered it as B&H :biggrin: Amazon's delivery estimate is 4/21-4/29. Hopefully there will be no delay.
    Gears shared to both living room & bedroom:
    Integra DHC-80.3 / Oppo BDP-105 / DirecTV HR24 DVR /APC S15blk PC-UPS
    Living room:
    LSiM707's / LSiM706c / LSiM702 F/X's / dual JL Audio Fathom F113's / Parasound Halo A51 / Panasonic 65" TC-P65VT50
    Bedroom:
    Usher Dancer Mini 2 Diamond DMD's / Logitech SB Touch / W4S STP-SE / W4S DAC-2 / W4S ST-1000 / Samsung 52" LN52B750
    Other rooms:
    Audioengine AP4's / GLOW Audio Sub One / audio-gd NFB-3 DAC / Audioengine N22
    audio-gd NFB-10.2 / Denon AH-D7000
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    Cool.

    Did you get a shipping confirmation, or better yet, a tracking number from J&R or Amazon?
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • DMara
    DMara Posts: 1,434
    edited April 2011
    nspindel wrote: »
    Cool.

    Did you get a shipping confirmation, or better yet, a tracking number from J&R or Amazon?

    Not yet, I made the purchase yesterday.
    Gears shared to both living room & bedroom:
    Integra DHC-80.3 / Oppo BDP-105 / DirecTV HR24 DVR /APC S15blk PC-UPS
    Living room:
    LSiM707's / LSiM706c / LSiM702 F/X's / dual JL Audio Fathom F113's / Parasound Halo A51 / Panasonic 65" TC-P65VT50
    Bedroom:
    Usher Dancer Mini 2 Diamond DMD's / Logitech SB Touch / W4S STP-SE / W4S DAC-2 / W4S ST-1000 / Samsung 52" LN52B750
    Other rooms:
    Audioengine AP4's / GLOW Audio Sub One / audio-gd NFB-3 DAC / Audioengine N22
    audio-gd NFB-10.2 / Denon AH-D7000
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    I purchased on April 6, and haven't heard from them yet. I guess you get what you pay for with free shipping.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • wattmeworry
    wattmeworry Posts: 224
    edited April 2011
    I Just picked up a Touch at crutchfields for $254.They have them on sale for $274.I used their coupon code 3a825 to get another $20 off.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited April 2011
    Nice grab!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • DMara
    DMara Posts: 1,434
    edited April 2011
    wattmeworry wrote: »
    I Just picked up a Touch at crutchfields for $254.They have them on sale for $274.I used their coupon code 3a825 to get another $20 off.


    Thanks. I've just placed the order at Crutchfields & canceled the Amazon (J&R) one :biggrin:
    Gears shared to both living room & bedroom:
    Integra DHC-80.3 / Oppo BDP-105 / DirecTV HR24 DVR /APC S15blk PC-UPS
    Living room:
    LSiM707's / LSiM706c / LSiM702 F/X's / dual JL Audio Fathom F113's / Parasound Halo A51 / Panasonic 65" TC-P65VT50
    Bedroom:
    Usher Dancer Mini 2 Diamond DMD's / Logitech SB Touch / W4S STP-SE / W4S DAC-2 / W4S ST-1000 / Samsung 52" LN52B750
    Other rooms:
    Audioengine AP4's / GLOW Audio Sub One / audio-gd NFB-3 DAC / Audioengine N22
    audio-gd NFB-10.2 / Denon AH-D7000
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter