in-wall speaker cable?

Midnite Mick

I can't say I have ever considered a cables appearance when I have purchased it.

Cable is sold by the foot but as a purchaser I think we evaluate the total cost of install vs. performance and base our judgement of value on that.

Nothing wrong with seeking other peoples experience with stuff to base your decision on but why do these threads always get out of hand? This should be enjoyable and fun.

Regards,
Mike

blueboxer

I have MIT AVT2 (all I could afford at the time) for my fronts and center and the dreaded in-wall rated *onster Cable running to my rear surrounds and during movie or DD/DTS/II THX...etc I can't notice any huge difference. However, I am OCD and do have to match all the wires I can see running into my system (it is a horrible disease) and didn't mind spending a little extra for a quality brand and well reviewed lineup of cables. Did I expect them to change my world, nope, and they didn't, but I am definitely happy with my sound and purchase.

The cheaper and more basic wire to the rear is not regretted, plus for the cost I was able to make two runs of the wire in case for some odd reason something goes bad with one run or a bandit rodent nibbles on one run.

madmax

I have no doubt the cables sound different. Maybe not better or worse, but different. Especially due to the much longer runs.

madmax

The decision has been made: Audioquest FLX-4/2.

The price was good at 0.80 per foot :biggrin:

14 awg is more than adequate for 30' runs to a high efficency speaker of 12 ohm impedance, OFC wire so corrosion won't happen, two conductor so no wrapping wire together before connecting to spades and free shipping even.

Thanks for the suggestions!
madmax

Glowrdr

- hijack! -

Going in-wall(behind baseboard?) and getting monoprice due to the price.


Should I run 2 runs of 2-wire, or can I get buy just running a 4-wire to the back of the room? I'm looking at roughly 75-80 feet to go where I need to. These speakers will be about 2 feet apart from each other BTW.

madmax

I'd run two 2-wire due to possible interaction between the two channels, especially at those distances.

faster100

moral of this story, Putting the price per foot somehow lessons the quality and perceived performance for some.

As dan said, It's a standard practice. Priced by the foot.

More then likely that studio was priced out as a complete job. parts/supplies included or not included. Hence no prices per foot were offered most likely.
Unless the customer says, i want brand x throughout. and they say, our standard inwall for jobs up to code is $xxxxx if you want brand x it's this much more.:biggrin:


It's like Antiques, A higher marked price is perceived as better qaulity and/or more desireable to the untrained purchaser.

F1nut

mantis wrote:

The Highest end wire in the world is sold by the foot bro.

Really? Show me where it is priced out by the foot. It's not. Sure you can break it down to a price per foot, just as one can break down the cost of an amp to a price per watt, but that is not how it is sold.

faster100 wrote:

moral of this story, Putting the price per foot somehow lessons the quality and perceived performance for some.

As dan said, It's a standard practice. Priced by the foot.

In your first sentence you acknowledge that cable is not priced per foot and in your second you say that it is. Maybe it's time to clean that guano off the statue.

faster100

NO jesse, people like you think if its priced by the foot instead of a roll for 379.95 or thousands, with no option for a smaller run that it must not be "high end" that was my point. in my first sentence.


Installers, poor people like us buy or sell it by the foot as a standard practice but ymmv :biggrin:

FTGV

Hilarious.

mantis

tonyb wrote: »

I find this statement somewhat disturbing comming from you Dan. You have some darn good experience with a variety of gear and to not hear you treat cables with the same zest you do with gear, well, disheartening is all.
Home depot 12 ga. will get a signal from point A to point B very well but to think that cable can't be improved on, is as far from the truth as one can imagine.

Jess's point was you buy cable for the SQ it offers, not the price per foot ratio.

I like to view cables as a piece of gear itself. Just as important to a system as a whole.

Don't take it that way , it's what I have learned in my years hangin out with Engineers who design amps , speakers and such. I ask all the time what is the preferred wire and I always get the gauge and length thing. But the point you are missing is quality. Home depot wire degrades on the shelf , I consider that poor quality.

I always buy wire by the sound quality , that will never change. Price per foot is how wire is sold , why won't anyone understand that. It wire by how long it is hence what the price will be. If you buy 10 foot MIT cables or 8 foot they are price by the foot. There is no secret here.

We carry more wire then I ever seen in my life so I get to play with many different flavors. Cardos , Kimber and Audioquest are our top 3. We also have Liberty , Ixos , Tributaries , Binary , Beldon , etc.

Anyone who wants to come and bring your wire , listen to our wire or what ever you want , I will open the doors , I will also show anyone who wants to know how wire is sold. Cardos is high end wire and you pay for it by the foot. Forget the whole idea of bulk wire( which is what this thread is about) and I'll sell you any kind of wire you want that we carry and you will be charged by the foot , how it's terminated and what level of quality it is. These are the factors.

O I forgot wire is sold by the foot. Length equals price

mantis

F1nut wrote: »

Really? Show me where it is priced out by the foot. It's not. Sure you can break it down to a price per foot, just as one can break down the cost of an amp to a price per watt, but that is not how it is sold.





In your first sentence you acknowledge that cable is not priced per foot and in your second you say that it is. Maybe it's time to clean that guano off the statue.

I don't know if you realize this but you sound like a idiot. Go go any high end shop that carries your favorite wire ( MIT I assume) and ask how it's sold. Then report back here with your actual findings.

To get you started lets take a look at the MIT M3.3 and how it's sold , looks like by the foot.
http://www.mitcables.com/available-online/magnum-m3.3-speaker-cable.html

F1nut

You still don't get it. Let's look at some of that MIT cable. The Oracle MA-X Bi-wire costs $39,999.00 for an 8 foot pair or 16 feet total. Since you think cable is priced by the foot that works out to $2499.94 per foot. So, that would mean a 10 foot pair or 20 feet total would be $49,998.80, but wait! MIT wants $40,999.00 for the 10 foot pair or $2049.95 per foot.

Hmmm......seems that it isn't priced per foot after all.

BlueFox

Personally, I think you guys are splitting hairs. I suspect wire is priced by how is sold. In bulk, it is probably priced by the foot. As a standalone product, it probably is priced as a package, based on its material cost measured per foot, along with other factors such as labor, termination, packaging, and some voodoo fudge factor.

faster100

I never knew terminated assembled pairs were the same as bulk purchased wire most all bulk or unterminated wire is sold by the foot isn't it Dan?

Although wire does make a difference, i can even admit that. anyone paying $40,000 for it should think about his finacial decisions and what short coming you may have to overcome that you need 40k wires Geez

megasat16

F1nut wrote: »

You still don't get it. Let's look at some of that MIT cable. The Oracle MA-X Bi-wire costs $39,999.00 for an 8 foot pair or 16 feet total. Since you think cable is priced by the foot that works out to $2499.94 per foot. So, that would mean a 10 foot pair or 20 feet total would be $49,998.80, but wait! MIT wants $40,999.00 for the 10 foot pair or $2049.95 per foot.

Hmmm......seems that it isn't priced per foot after all.

No, it doesn't seem like it's priced by the foot at all! It seems MIT rips off the customer for the first 8 foot of the length and gives the customer a great bargain for the last two foot? It's known as MIT getting you an extra foot (or two) for you on a dime.

The other thing is that they may consider 10 foot runs a wholesale price and 8 foot runs a retail price. Coz 10 is pretty significant number if you think about it. You buy one at a retail price but you can usually buy 10 or a dozen at wholesale price. I guess it's the same with every high end high price stuff? No?

dorokusai

madmax wrote: »

The decision has been made: Audioquest FLX-4/2.

The price was good at 0.80 per foot :biggrin:

14 awg is more than adequate for 30' runs to a high efficency speaker of 12 ohm impedance, OFC wire so corrosion won't happen, two conductor so no wrapping wire together before connecting to spades and free shipping even.

Thanks for the suggestions!
madmax

That sounds like a great choice.

I've bought MIT Oracle cable, bulk, by the inch....does that throw a wrench in this silly discussion about foot vs bulk vs pre-determined lengths?

F1nut

I've bought MIT Oracle cable, bulk, by the inch

Come to think of it, so have I, but it wasn't priced by the inch.

gdb

How much per meter ??:biggrin:

hearingimpared

I would be happy just looking at an MIT Oracle cable!

TroyD

faster100 wrote: »

I never knew terminated assembled pairs were the same as bulk purchased wire most all bulk or unterminated wire is sold by the foot isn't it Dan?

Although wire does make a difference, i can even admit that. anyone paying $40,000 for it should think about his finacial decisions and what short coming you may have to overcome that you need 40k wires Geez

Oy. it's funny how some people will just argue something, regardless of the logic, just because they have an axe to grind. Window lickers.

I'm not even going to rehash the per foot argument because it's too silly, suffice to say that there are clearly two different pricing schemes in effect. Bulk wire is priced per foot whereas non-bulk, terminated are generally sold as in pre-determined pairs. You haven't got to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out....so why is it even an argument?

The thing here though, is that if someone buys a pair of MIT Oracle speaker cables, why do they have to be compensating for something? Perhaps, this person can afford it and chooses to spend his/her discretionary income as he/she sees fit.

I think that some should examine why they feel the need to cast aspersions on what others do because it doesn't jive with thier personal paradigm. That's pretty pathetic.

BDT

faster100

:biggrin: Pot, kettle, black! that whole thing Wow great discussion

TroyD

How is it a pot, kettle, black thing Cliff?

See, the thing here is that you fail to grasp the logic of what is being said and just pile on because you dislike someone.

Further, I cast no aspersions on people who do things differently and have different priorities than I do. Whereas, because you assume that if someone buys a pair of cables that you deem excessive, they must have a shortcoming. It's not a logical statement or conclusion for a number of reasons which even if I were to give them, you probably wouldn't grasp.

Ironically, it's people who can't discuss things rationally and logically, like you, that actually give a sarcastic 'Wow, great discussion" comment it's merit.

BDT

pearsall001

When I bought my Rotel RMB-1095 multi channel amp I knew I would have to extend my speaker wire runs (surrounds only) to reach the new amp. I pondered for awhile (I was too lazy to run a whole new set of cables all the way to the surrounds). I ordered a 4' (12ga) run terminated with nanners for the amp side only, the other end was left naked, from Bluejeans cables. I simply connected the old run with the new run with electric twister connectors. Bingo! job done in a few minutes & not a hint of sound degregation what so ever. It was more of an experiment to see how well it turned out...now after hearing no difference in sound I personally won't dump a lot of coin my surround run. To each his own & happy listening! Now I have to figure out how much those 4' cost me for each foot.

Knucklehead

I was always under the impression that raw unterminated speaker cable was sold by the foot, whereas cut to length pre-terminated speaker cable was sold by the cable.

faster100

i don't choose to get into these hopeless arguments with you or the likes any more like i used to. However, even you don't posess the elitest attitude that jesse does around here. and for the record, He commented on my post first. i didn't seek him out.

He just wont listen, Dan is an installer and in the business for years. yet he's told he's wrong. But ya know, hey life is good and i'm out on this one now.

see how easy that is?

the pot, kettle, black WAS for you. you comment on my post first, and say "some people" argue just because they have a axe to grind and don't like people. That's laughable Troy :biggrin: see funny coming from you. Forget the last several years so soon? Brother stick to ignoring me like you have done "pretty well" and a few of your brothers have done, Ignore list me, mind eff me to yourself. But let me participate without the endless comments. Be happy things are better for everybody,

Wire, is wire. if 40k gets u hard and you can afford it, Great I'm happy for ya, lets not pretend we like each other or were speaking in the third person in every post. Good day

Bingo!!!

Knucklehead wrote: »

I was always under the impression that raw unterminated speaker cable was sold by the foot, whereas cut to length pre-terminated speaker cable was sold by the cable.

TroyD

don't choose to get into these hopeless arguments with you or the likes any more like i used to

...and yet, here you are. You inserted yourself into this thread so this statement is clearly false.

. However, even you don't posess the elitest attitude that jesse does around here.

Jesse isn't an elitist. Opinionated? Sure but just because you hold a certain viewpoint doesn't make you an elitist.

He commented on my post first. i didn't seek him out.

So you commented first and he responded. Sort of blows a hole in the premise of the my first quote.

Dan is an installer and in the business for years. yet he's told he's wrong

The fact is, as I alluded to in my post, there are two different pricing schemes. Bulk wire is priced by the foot. Nobody is arguing that. However, if you look at a pair of MIT Oracles...or just about any other terminated cable pair...it's sold as a pair at a set price. I've never seen it advertised as so much per foot. To state otherwise is just false. More to the point, his point was that judging the quality of cable based on price is ridiculous...and I agree with that. Price and quality aren't mutually exclusive.

the pot, kettle, black WAS for you. you comment on my post first, and say "some people" argue just because they have a axe to grind and don't like people

Well, since you bring it up, we can go there. Make no mistake, Cliff. You are still the same window licker that you always were and you still have all the charm of the fungus that grows in tile grout. I've never waivered on that point. Nor was I trying to be unequivocal. However, there is a new generation of window lickers here (they know who they are) who do have that same MO and I was making a generalization. You were right in taking it to heart though.

As far as ignoring....you give yourself far too much credit. I don't analyze your posts nor do I seek them out. This thread is interesting to me and you just happened to post something that warranted comment, nothing more. I've never made any secret that I don't use the ignore feature and that I comment when and where I see fit.

re, is wire. if 40k gets u hard and you can afford it, Great I'm happy for ya

if this is what you really think than why did you say this?

i can even admit that. anyone paying $40,000 for it should think about his finacial decisions and what short coming you may have to overcome that you need 40k wires Geez

Clearly you have an issue with it. Logically, you've never heard a 40K pair of cables so you have no basis on which to judge if they are worth it or not. All you can do is cast aspersion on the person who did. Your premise being that they must be 'compensating' for something. That's sour grapes. Class envy. Jealousy or however you want to describe it. You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to figure that out.

lets not pretend we like each other or were speaking in the third person in every post.

Oh, make no mistake, I loathe you. If we are getting down to brass tacks, I think you have the IQ of a mushroom and lack the ability to discuss something in a logical fashion. That isn't why I loathe you, however. Your lack of integrity in your business dealings (which are well documented int he HOS) and general sense of entitlement based on your circumstances is what has earned my loathing.

Now, since you asked, Cliff...does that about clear it up? Again, I apologize if I wasn't specific enough.

BDT

gdb

2011 is off to rip-roaring start!:biggrin:

faster100

Wow are you the new jstas around here :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
it's funny when the tables are turned and im laughing at you and your :mad: and writing three page responses, Full circle, keep digging Troy Happy new year

TroyD wrote: »

...and yet, here you are. You inserted yourself into this thread so this statement is clearly false.



Jesse isn't an elitist. Opinionated? Sure but just because you hold a certain viewpoint doesn't make you an elitist.



So you commented first and he responded. Sort of blows a hole in the premise of the my first quote.



The fact is, as I alluded to in my post, there are two different pricing schemes. Bulk wire is priced by the foot. Nobody is arguing that. However, if you look at a pair of MIT Oracles...or just about any other terminated cable pair...it's sold as a pair at a set price. I've never seen it advertised as so much per foot. To state otherwise is just false. More to the point, his point was that judging the quality of cable based on price is ridiculous...and I agree with that. Price and quality aren't mutually exclusive.



Well, since you bring it up, we can go there. Make no mistake, Cliff. You are still the same window licker that you always were and you still have all the charm of the fungus that grows in tile grout. I've never waivered on that point. Nor was I trying to be unequivocal. However, there is a new generation of window lickers here (they know who they are) who do have that same MO and I was making a generalization. You were right in taking it to heart though.

As far as ignoring....you give yourself far too much credit. I don't analyze your posts nor do I seek them out. This thread is interesting to me and you just happened to post something that warranted comment, nothing more. I've never made any secret that I don't use the ignore feature and that I comment when and where I see fit.



if this is what you really think than why did you say this?



Clearly you have an issue with it. Logically, you've never heard a 40K pair of cables so you have no basis on which to judge if they are worth it or not. All you can do is cast aspersion on the person who did. Your premise being that they must be 'compensating' for something. That's sour grapes. Class envy. Jealousy or however you want to describe it. You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to figure that out.



Oh, make no mistake, I loathe you. If we are getting down to brass tacks, I think you have the IQ of a mushroom and lack the ability to discuss something in a logical fashion. That isn't why I loathe you, however. Your lack of integrity in your business dealings (which are well documented int he HOS) and general sense of entitlement based on your circumstances is what has earned my loathing.

Now, since you asked, Cliff...does that about clear it up? Again, I apologize if I wasn't specific enough.

BDT

F1nut

I take it the guano clean up isn't going well.