Surveillance cameras monitor entire town....in the US

Face

This does impact normal people.

How about the red light cameras that are popping up all over? If you're at a red light and creep up an inch it takes your photo. If someone else is borrowing your car and they go through a red, the registered owner receives the ticket. At known camera intersections, it's common to see people slam on their brakes at yellow lights to avoid a ticket, but end up causing an accident. It's not about safety, it's about annuity.

Face

zarrdoss wrote: »

they're going to build a prison (for me and you to live in)

For you and me,
Oh baby, you and me.

:biggrin:

messiah

Our Founding Fathers would have never tolerated this kind of crap.

brettw22

Our founding fathers rode around on horses and used candles as light.

There's a difference between being blaringly blind to the fact that the world is a different place now vs. then and also that people are different.

My rights are no different walking down a monitored street than a non-monitored street. Quit acting like such drama queens.

dorokusai

Amen. It's easy to rail online, harder to actually get involved. I'm sure the examples of what ppl have done are soon to be posted...just FYI, unless you live where I do, I don't care. That's the Washington, DC area.....ala Montgomery County Maryland.

Oh, yeah...shouldn't you worry about whats happening in the next state? Nope. Every state should do what the hell they want and publish a guide of what to do, and not to do, when traveling within the CONUS. But that'll never happen, only the kids will suffer and being I have none...whew, you can guess my sensitive stance on that already. Nothing anyone on this board does will ever matter...aside from MAYBE Trey, and even he will just see a bright flash before he runs.

messiah

brettw22 wrote: »

Our founding fathers rode around on horses and used candles as light.

There's a difference between being blaringly blind to the fact that the world is a different place now vs. then and also that people are different.

My rights are no different walking down a monitored street than a non-monitored street. Quit acting like such drama queens.

cool story bro :rolleyes:

cokewithvanilla

What's different about back then and now with regards to monitoring the citizens? What makes it justifiable now when it wasn't then? Simply the fact that we can do it easier?

brettw22

Because I look at the fact that if I'm in public, already ANYone could be/is seeing me....

YOU are the one placing it in the 'being monitored' category.....that's your issue, not mine.

cokewithvanilla

brettw22 wrote: »

Because I look at the fact that if I'm in public, already ANYone could be/is seeing me....

YOU are the one placing it in the 'being monitored' category.....that's your issue, not mine.

If you're on your laptop in public, I can look over your shoulder and see what you are doing. Does this make it fair for the government to monitor the activity all computers in public places (wifi, 3G, doesn't matter)?

Sure, someone might see me in public, cause I am in public... but they would have to follow me everywhere I go in order to maintain the "someone could be seeing me" idea that you propose. So, if you were in public and someone was following you for hours, perhaps on a radio reporting your movements, would that be ok?

brettw22

again, you're jumping to conclusions.

I've never said that I would prefer that the cameras are there.......but if they are, I'm not going to make the mental leap that because they are someone will be sitting at a desk looking at every person on every street doing every single thing every minute of every day of every week of the year........

I understand your concern to a point, but it's a leap that, IMO, is impractical

ryanjoachim

So much paranoia. I'm more of a conspiracy theorist myself. If the government really wanted to keep an eye on us at all times, they could do so with a moderate amount of difficulty without it becoming common knowledge.

If they try to put cameras in my house, THEN I'll start getting paranoid. Otherwise, I do nothing outside that anyone would want to "store somewhere for later use".

cokewithvanilla

I do not think that they will be looking at every person, but the possibility of them looking at a few people is not out of reason. I have been followed by a police officer for "acting suspicious". He followed me to a business that I managed, banged on the door then, with his hand on his gun, demanded my ID. I told him no and he freaked out saying something like "I am not used to being disobeyed" (power tripping ****)... anyway, they could choose to watch you for whatever reason and you could end up cuffed in no time. It certainly affects those that carry weapons, who might simply be considered suspicious for printing (and I either print like hell or OC).

Big Dawg

Here's an old quote: "Give me liberty or give me death." And, here's one from the '60s: "Paranoia strikes deep."

No government, or any other human organization, ought to be given the power to invade our privacy. We must all be very judicious about how much "protection" we require of our government, lest those in roles of power devise an "ultimate solution" to our problems. That the technology of the modern world makes invasion of privacy easy merely means that we need to be that much more vigilant in protecting our individual liberty, not simply roll over and give in to it.

Cameras and the abomination-X-ray-vans are only part of the puzzle. If you carry a cell phone, your location can be pinpointed. Circumstantial evidence based on precise technology can give the appearance of high degrees of accuracy, whereas in truth it is still circumstantial. The immense over-reaction to the 911 tragedy has served to aid the intent of the terrorists - to reduce and eliminate our free society.

maximillian

I love technology. This is actually a great use of technology. Yes, I want criminals caught on tape so they can be prosecuted. I think everyone would want that.

Unfortunately I do not trust those in charge with this technology. There are WAY too many examples of police abuse and over-reaction to otherwise law abiding citizens that I read about on what seems like a daily basis that I would rather do without this technology even though I see the merits.

It's estimated that people break 3 laws per day going about their daily routine. There's even a book written about this but I can't find a link to it after a cursory search. But think of it this way... what if you had a police officer in your car as you drove throughout the day that wrote a ticket everytime you broke a traffic violation? I'm sure all of us would receive several tickets per day. That is a cursory definition of a police state.

If you have time then please watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

The professor and the police officer (in part 2) states that it is very easy for people to break the law. It is also the basis for the praise of the 5th amendment by the professor.

BTW, don't forget this fun stuff:

http://boingboing.net/2010/01/12/video-of-houston-pol.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INdcaeeb3ws

cokewithvanilla

Big Dawg wrote: »

We must all be very judicious about how much "protection" we require of our government, lest those in roles of power devise an "ultimate solution" to our problems.

I agree. this is not an issue we should say something like, "it doesn't affect me" to.

maximillian wrote: »

There are WAY too many examples of police abuse and over-reaction to otherwise law abiding citizens that I read about on what seems like a daily basis that I would rather do without this technology even though I see the merits.
...

It's estimated that people break 3 laws per day going about their daily routine.

exactly. As I have been saying, if you think you are a perfectly law abiding citizen, you are wrong. The police can make your life hell with little reason, and until it has happened to you, you do not understand the magnitude of it (think of the cost of simply being prosecuted, just the accusation costs thousands at the minimum). I would not wish to make it any easier for them.

hearingimpared

Face wrote: »

This does impact normal people.

How about the red light cameras that are popping up all over? If you're at a red light and creep up an inch it takes your photo. If someone else is borrowing your car and they go through a red, the registered owner receives the ticket. At known camera intersections, it's common to see people slam on their brakes at yellow lights to avoid a ticket, but end up causing an accident. It's not about safety, it's about annuity.

This is the great point Mike. There is an intersection here where the speed limit is 50 mph. If you are approaching and are one car length away from the line you have a choice; 1) slam you brakes to stop and risk tire blow out or accident or 2) keep going (which is what should be done) however the yellow is so short you get nailed and BTW I always slow down a bit when approaching an intersection, just being cautious but even if you slow down by five miles mph you are still in the same predicament.

I got nailed twice at this intersection and now I jam my brakes when the light turns yellow.

I'm going to go to traffic court with the two tickets . . . not to fight them as that is a lost cause but to inform the court that the yellow light needs to be adjusted to allow for the speed limit. Maybe just maybe the judge will lower the fine or possibly kick one out.

I also agree with Jesse on the point about cameras being placed around the city. Even if you are the most law abiding citizen, there are too many laws and ordinances that can be broken without your knowledge of them. This is not paranoia it's common sense as with the camera, ignorance of the law is no excuse which is fine but do you need to go to the library to study up on all the local, state and federal laws and ordinances that apply to that particular city just to exist there?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for crime prevention but I feel that cameras should only be mounted in stores or businesses and even the entrances and exits but around the entire area is a bit over-the-top IMHO. I'll even go as far as saying I'm okay with shopping center parking lot's being monitored as in certain areas many muggings and car thefts occur.

cfrizz

There are far more examples of criminals not giving a crap about yours or anyone elses rights and breaking the law. More & more cops are getting shot/killed in the line of duty.

I have seen more drivers run red lights when the orange pops up, then 3 other cars behind the first one decide to go through as well. I've seen drivers go through red lights in the early morning hours simply because no one was on the street and they didn't feel like waiting.

If you don't want to follow the rules of the road just because you are in a big hurry to go nowhere, then deal with the ticket when a camera busts you breaking the law.

Please posts examples of people getting tickets for jaywalking or breaking all of these other ordinances that you paranoids are so worried about happening. If you can't prove it, then it is simply your paranoia talking and has NOTHING to do with reality.

nooshinjohn

brettw22 wrote: »

Our founding fathers rode around on horses and used candles as light.

There's a difference between being blaringly blind to the fact that the world is a different place now vs. then and also that people are different.

My rights are no different walking down a monitored street than a non-monitored street. Quit acting like such drama queens.

You have a constitutional right that prevents illegal search and seizure. The "monitoring system" is an illegal search, period. Driving down the street in a van that emits radar beams that can see inside your home is an illegal search....PERIOD! If you like it for you, cool, but those that surrender their liberty for a bit of security deserve neither and will eventually loose both. Just wait until these municipalities discover they can outsource their camera surveliance to Mumbai, Shanghai or perhaps Moscow. After all, the Chinese and the Russians have decades of experience watching their people take a dump.


I fear we already have started down a very slippery slope... Time to stand up and reclaim our God-given rights of LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PERSUIT OF HAPPINESS before they are taken away from us forever.

messiah

Well said John.

nooshinjohn

ryanjoachim wrote: »

So much paranoia. I'm more of a conspiracy theorist myself. If the government really wanted to keep an eye on us at all times, they could do so with a moderate amount of difficulty without it becoming common knowledge.If they try to put cameras in my house, THEN I'll start getting paranoid. Otherwise, I do nothing outside that anyone would want to "store somewhere for later use".

They already do... and the time to be concerned with cameras is now, before they become precident in the eyes of the law. Once that threshold has been crossed, it is to late.

And as far as later use goes... assume for a second that this "stored information" lets them determine your daily routine, right down to the fact that at 10:03 am, you switch your coffee cup from your right hand to the left so that you can pick your nose and scratch your ****. Because they know where you are, they can do all kinds of things. Go to your home and sieze your guns, or arrest you right off the street because you have this little anti-government blog. As government becomes more powerful and invasive, your daily routine is exactly what they will want to know.

hearingimpared

cfrizz wrote: »

There are far more examples of criminals not giving a crap about yours or anyone elses rights and breaking the law. More & more cops are getting shot/killed in the line of duty.

I have seen more drivers run red lights when the orange pops up, then 3 other cars behind the first one decide to go through as well. I've seen drivers go through red lights in the early morning hours simply because no one was on the street and they didn't feel like waiting.

If you don't want to follow the rules of the road just because you are in a big hurry to go nowhere, then deal with the ticket when a camera busts you breaking the law.

Please posts examples of people getting tickets for jaywalking or breaking all of these other ordinances that you paranoids are so worried about happening. If you can't prove it, then it is simply your paranoia talking and has NOTHING to do with reality.

Cathy, first of all criminals could give a flip about cameras, they are going to do their thing regardless.

Second, the traffic camera I spoke of is definitely a revenue generator as there is no way to stop at that intersection at 50 mph or 45 mph when you are close to the line without a screeching halt. The yellow light is simply too short time-wise. I would love to see a semi tractor trailer driver try to stop at that intersection without causing an accident even if he applied his air brakes to the max the truck would contort and end up halfway through the intersection.

As far as your paranoia statement, I disagree with you. I'm not paranoid. You know that when things are put in place like this in the general public it is just a revenue generator. Now if they put the cameras in a high crime area or a known drug dealing spot it probably won't deter the crime but it can help nail the perpetrators. I agree with Jesse and John on this one.

bobman1235

It's scary how people will justify anything. Maybe some of us just don't like being treated as criminals having done nothing wrong. It's just not that hard to understand to me. I'm not a criminal, but more and more I'm being treated as one under the guise of protecting me from them. No thanks.


As far as red lights, if it's the middle of the night and no one's around and there are no cars, I'll blow through them too. Why? Because there's nothing wrong with it. You're trusted to use your judgement in a dozen intersections a day that don't have stop lights; in non-traffic situations stop lights are arbitrary and stupid. (I realize to some this contradicts my "I'm not a criminal" stance above. I disagree.)

cokewithvanilla

cfrizz wrote: »

There are far more examples of criminals not giving a crap about yours or anyone elses rights and breaking the law. More & more cops are getting shot/killed in the line of duty.

Than what? Cops abusing citizens? There are tons of examples of cops abusing citizens if you know where to look (and even more that go unreported). There are examples of cops shooting citizens for no reason as well. I don't know where you were going with this statement. What does this have to do with cameras?

cfrizz wrote: »

I have seen more drivers run red lights when the orange pops up, then 3 other cars behind the first one decide to go through as well. I've seen drivers go through red lights in the early morning hours simply because no one was on the street and they didn't feel like waiting.

If you don't want to follow the rules of the road just because you are in a big hurry to go nowhere, then deal with the ticket when a camera busts you breaking the law.

and??? Red light cameras have been proven to cause rear end collisions. It seems that you see the law in black and white, without any situational analysis. There are situations in which running a red light is the right choice (icy conditions, avoiding an accident). These cameras do not account for that, where a person might. Also, trying to fight a camera ticket in court is futile because then they charge court costs more than the price of the ticket. So even if you are in the right, you don't fight it because it's cheaper to be guilty.... that's how our legal system works a lot of the time (plead guilty for a lower penalty rather than prove your innocence in court).

cfrizz wrote: »

Please posts examples of people getting tickets for jaywalking or breaking all of these other ordinances that you paranoids are so worried about happening. If you can't prove it, then it is simply your paranoia talking and has NOTHING to do with reality.

I think our point is proven with speed cameras and traffic light cameras. You seem to have a whole lot of trust in the government that they will not use this technology for anything less than wholesome. So, what you're saying is, according to your other statements, petty crime is crime, but breaking city ordinances isn't?

Sure, it might not happen at first, but when the government wants more money, and the system is already in place, it will be easy to justify.

Ron-P

brettw22 wrote: »

Our founding fathers rode around on horses and used candles as light.

There's a difference between being blaringly blind to the fact that the world is a different place now vs. then and also that people are different.

My rights are no different walking down a monitored street than a non-monitored street. Quit acting like such drama queens.

Well said.

brettw22

So having the cameras is one issue, but it's the implementation of the face recognition software, the software that will scan our bodies for the chips that are embedded in our skin at birth so that the camera just has to read our serial number, or the deloyment of a tactical robot designed to track it's subject.

I can understand that.

steveinaz

brettw22 wrote: »

I don't follow that logic......you're still free to kick in the windows of all the businesses you want......you're just more likely of being caught.

HOw are you less free to do what you are already doing?

So shall we move cameras into your home? You don't plan on doing anything illegal, do ya?

Get real. I don't pay taxes to be watched by big brother.

steveinaz

Amazing what people will justify to themselves---and those with the balls to speak out against it, are of course paranoid morons. Beats the hell out of being a sheep. Sleep well princesses, gub'ments got your back. pitiful.

2012 can't get here soon enough (politically speaking).

steveinaz

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I fear we already have started down a very slippery slope... Time to stand up and reclaim our God-given rights of LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PERSUIT OF HAPPINESS before they are taken away from us forever.

AMEN, problem is for some it's just easier to fold (and justify), then to ever stand up. Cause, ya know, that takes time & effort.

F'n Kali, I don't know how anyone lives in that piss-pool of a state. Californians, WHY DO YOU ALLOW THIS MICROMANAGEMENT OF YOUR LIVES? ARE YOU NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING YOUR OWN DECISIONS? DO YOU LIKE SOMEONE ELSE DECIDING WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU?

brettw22

Steve, don't be so dramatic. I know that the past 2 years have been hell for you, and for that I'm sorry for your excrutiating pain. I'd be surprised if your 'side' doesn't implode by then.........

Home = private and therefore totally different than walking down the street. I know that seems impossible in your blinder view of the world, but welcome to reality.

What's bizarre is that you people actually think you're in a privatized setting when you're out in public. I don't care what you think, you're not, and pretending that you should be somehow flys in the face of logic.

This 'princess' has no problem sleeping at night.......****.

F1nut

If you don't want to follow the rules of the road just because you are in a big hurry to go nowhere, then deal with the ticket when a camera busts you breaking the law.

Hilarious coming from someone that doesn't own a car.