Surveillance cameras monitor entire town....in the US

cokewithvanilla

sucks2beme wrote: »

Are we a bit jaded, perhaps? They do drive trhough my neighborhood
and others and will stop to check up on anything that looks odd.
They also cruise through parking lots and around businesses.
Not protect anyone? I doubt that's the case. Of course,
I'm not in the big city, but a suburb. AS far as them playing dirty
Harry, not going to happen.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

Listen to this call... a women being stalked by her exboyfriend. shes on the phone with 911 while he is breaking in to her house...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkS8mdbml0A

if she wasnt armed she would be dead or seriously hurt... dirty harry? I think not. Protecting yourself is not about playing batman and trying to fight crime, but rather a defensive role that you play passively until acted upon.

BIZILL

movies are becoming reality. we're presently living out "enemy of the state" and next comes "the terminator" and then let's finish out with "the matrix".

tonyb

dorokusai wrote: »

By the time anyone gets behind you Tony, they'll already be in place. When I see the same thing happening in Chicago, I'll post the headline.

Heck Mark, we have camera's all over in the city and the burbs. They have compiled data,did surveys, gone over all the stats from the state,and found the traffic camera's make it less safe. Now, thats just traffic eye spy,not the one's keeping a look out at buildings and such.

Cathy, as a matter of fact,they do have vans equiped with x-ray tech from the battlefield that can drive down your street and look into every house to see what you are doing. Our lovely government just bought a bunch,for what purpose ? To play Elmer Fudd, shhhh,be very quiet,I'm looking for terrorwist ?

dorokusai

Tony - I'm with you but for me, I live outside the city so my opinion counts less and it was way beyond reproach by the time the populace finally noticed. It was all bent towards LEO and who's gonna complain initially, THEN they realize it's bigger....then it's too late. Sound familiar?

cokewithvanilla

tonyb wrote: »

as a matter of fact,they do have vans equiped with x-ray tech from the battlefield that can drive down your street and look into every house to see what you are doing. Our lovely government just bought a bunch,for what purpose ? To play Elmer Fudd, shhhh,be very quiet,I'm looking for terrorwist ?

Housing gets more expensive all the time... now I have to add a lead lined walls to the list :eek:

tonyb

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Housing gets more expensive all the time... now I have to add a lead lined walls to the list :eek:

Don't forget the tinfoil roof...

Here's the link for Cathy on the x-ray vans

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0929/Feds-radiating-Americans-Mobile-X-ray-vans-hit-US-streets

cokewithvanilla

tonyb wrote: »

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0929/Feds-radiating-Americans-Mobile-X-ray-vans-hit-US-streets

Man, I think I am going to keep my car filled with tons of clear Saran wrapped bags of flour and random weapons (all stored in a perfectly legal manner).

bobman1235

cfrizz wrote: »

The cameras are outside monitoring public businesses & places, They are looking for ILLEGAL activity in order to stop it or at least catch the perpetrators of the crimes. If you aren't breaking the law, you have nothing to worry about.

That exact idiotic argument could be applied to them putting cameras in your house or car. If you're not doing anything wrong, why do you care? :rolleyes:

tonyb

For a woman, they probably draw the line at the bathroom door. Can't have anyone seeing them without makeup on ya know. But you might be doing something illegal in there like flushing drugs, making booze in the tub, where does it end Cathy ? Or maybe you think the bathroom is the only place for your rights to privacy to exist. According to our Attorney General, you have no legal rights to privacy...period. Think about that next time you drop that towel in the bathroom.

kevhed72

1984 began with the creation of the Department of Homeland Security.
I guess the biggest problems I have with security cameras is they do NOT do anything to address the root-causes of criminal activity.

cfrizz

Sorry Tony, I simply can't worry or freak out about stuff like this. Let them look, they aren't going to discover anything worth noting about me. I have too many other day to day important issues to deal with rather than worry about the govt snooping on me.

I don't do drugs except the perscribed kind that only gives me a month supply, last time I checked booze is and has been a legal substance for decades. I can't live my life being a paranoid alarmist over every little thing.

If you all are that concerned, then go take yourself off to the wilderness & commune with the animals and do whatever you want.

tonyb

Lol!!! Paranoid alarmist...whatever. Might help if you take an interest in what your government does though. Seems most people these days only care every 4 years when a new prez is elected. Then fall asleep. While I can agree there is a certain element of paranoid alarmist among us, but it's not paranoid if the facts are there to back it up. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to put it all together, you just need to pay attention.

tonyb

kevhed72 wrote: »

1984 began with the creation of the Department of Homeland Security.
I guess the biggest problems I have with security cameras is they do NOT do anything to address the root-causes of criminal activity.

They should have camera's in congress, then you'd catch the real criminals. Oh wait...they don't,go figure. They fight it everytime someone suggest it too. See,the criminals are the John Q public, stealing cars, selling pot on the corner, busting into jewelry stores, while still a crime, they steal billions and hold themselves above the law, circumvent around the constitution. Anybody in government go to jail over the financial scams ? Or the oil rig in the gulf ? No, but if you slap your kid on the **** in public, some government agency will come visit you. Some don't see a problem with this ? Most won't, untill it affects them personally, then they wake up and go WTF ? You can't pick and choose what liberties to give up and which ones to keep. If you like to live your life with your head buried in the sand,cool, but don't complain when stuff you used to hold dear, disappears. Would it not be wise to hold those in power accountable to the same principles we as parents teach our kids ?

brettw22

I guess what I'm not understanding is that by current law, if you're out in the public domain, you have no privacy rights. Does having a camera on the corner change what you already don't have privacy from?

bobman1235

brettw22 wrote: »

I guess what I'm not understanding is that by current law, if you're out in the public domain, you have no privacy rights. Does having a camera on the corner change what you already don't have privacy from?

Why does it have to be about privacy? Why can't it just be that you don't want everything you do saved and cataloged by some all-powerful oversight committee? That doesn't disconcert you at ALL? Or are you one of those "the government is out for my best interest and would never do anything wrong" folks?

I'm not paranoid, I don't think anyone's out to get us with these things, but I also know how these kind of things seem to evolve, and it's rarely good for the individual.

brettw22

I think the problem tends to be that people only see two options:

1. You need to be freaked the eff out
2. You support the government 100% in everything they do.

I don't fall into either. When I have things to do, I have things to do. Having a camera around town isn't going to make me not go to Costco to do some shopping, or go eat at a restaurant. If there's a camera around, I might be more conscientious about picking my nose, but that's about it....

Hell, if I was worried about cameras, I'd probably not go to Costco, restaurants, or anything because they have cameras all over the place as well.......

bobman1235

i don't see those as the two options. I'm not freaked the eff out by any stretch, but if you're asking my opinion / what I would prefer, I would PREFER not to have a camera on every corner. I'ts not going to change the way I live my life either way, but it doesn't prohibit me from having an opinion.

hearingimpared

Delaware is right there with DC. Cameras everywhere, photo cameras at almost every stop light. It's a little unnerving even though I try to obey the laws of the land.

brettw22

bobman1235 wrote: »

i don't see those as the two options. I'm not freaked the eff out by any stretch, but if you're asking my opinion / what I would prefer, I would PREFER not to have a camera on every corner. I'ts not going to change the way I live my life either way, but it doesn't prohibit me from having an opinion.

Of course.....I'm not saying "i prefer them to be there" either......but the fact that they're there has no bearing on me personally......

cfrizz

brettw22 wrote: »

Of course.....I'm not saying "i prefer them to be there" either......but the fact that they're there has no bearing on me personally......

Precisely, just go on about your business and do what you have to do. It's not impacting your life in any way so why get so worked up about it. Brett is exactly right, most retail businesses already have cameras installed all over the place. Are you going to stop shopping because you are being spied on, or are you worried a camera might catch you shoplifting? If not, then theres nothing to get upset about.

cokewithvanilla

Most retail cameras aren't even monitored. Most businesses cannot afford to monitor them. Even so, they are only there for one purpose, to either prevent shoplifting, or prove the act of shoplifting in the event that they choose to prosecute.

Public government cameras could be used for any purpose. As previously mentioned, if you slap your kid in public, are you going to have some people visit you for child abuse? Who else is monitoring the cameras? How secure are these things?

My biggest issue is they have no real benefit... they might cause petty crime committed by teenagers to decrease, but most of that is harmless anyway. They have lots of downsides, including cost to taxpayers.

cfrizz

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Most retail cameras aren't even monitored. Most businesses cannot afford to monitor them. Even so, they are only there for one purpose, to either prevent shoplifting, or prove the act of shoplifting in the event that they choose to prosecute.

Public government cameras could be used for any purpose. As previously mentioned, if you slap your kid in public, are you going to have some people visit you for child abuse? Who else is monitoring the cameras? How secure are these things?

My biggest issue is they have no real benefit... they might cause petty crime committed by teenagers to decrease, but most of that is harmless anyway. They have lots of downsides, including cost to taxpayers.

Petty crime is STILL crime and should be stopped as well since it is probably harming or at the very least costing someone money to fix or repair whatever petty crime was done.

Oh please, it's more likely that someone will snap a picture of it on their cellphone & upload to youtube & forward it to the local police.

But then common sense begs should you really be slapping your child in public anyway, since everyone tends to mind everyone elses business anyway in cases like these.

You paranoids will pull reasons out of anywhere to try to justify your paranoia won't you?

What this is all about is that some people would prefer that there be no government at all which would allow them to do whatever they want, just like there are some on here who would rather not have any moderation so that it could be a free for all on here all the time.

The government and the law was brought about precisely for this reason, because if there is a choice between doing right & doing wrong, too many would choose to do the wrong thing especially if they can get away with it.

cokewithvanilla

cfrizz wrote: »

Petty crime is STILL crime

let's not forget about cameras that monitor and track jaywalking... it's still a crime and should be stopped.

So, monitoring the entire city is worth it because it might deter petty crime? how much do you think the petty crime costs versus installing and monitoring cameras?

So should we all have government monitored cameras in our homes too? After all, we are unlikely to build bombs on the public streets, but we can in our basements... so hey, looks like there is more good that can come from cameras in our homes, so it's worth it, right?

They should also monitor all internet traffic, after all, if I search terms like "bombs" or "guns", I should probably be arrested and interrogated....

Statistically, more crime happens after dark... we should impose a curfew. And studies show that dress codes reduce conflict between individuals... we need government approved uniforms.

brettw22

coke, I understand your point, but there's a difference between rational thought and being paranoid.

Just because I saw a snowflake today, doesn't mean that I'm going to be killed by a 2 ton snowball.....

I'll give you the cost argument, but past that, it's unnecessary paranoia IMO.

cokewithvanilla

I don't think it's paranoid to assume that if they get cameras monitoring every city, and people get used to it, that we will end up being monitored in our homes. Once freedom is given up, it's hard to get it back.

"you can follow the most patriotic, deeply religious American who ever lived with a tape recorder for a year, and then prove that he’s a worse traitor than Benedict Arnold, and a worshipper of the Devil."

That's my view on cameras. most law abiding citizens break the law regularly without knowing it, and it has no harmful effects and they are never punished. Imagine if everyone could be held accountable for every error. Besides, monitoring our citizens just doesn't hold with the values of this country, in my opinion.

i also don't like the idea that we should try to prevent crime with every means necessary.. .that mentality just isn't right. Sometimes it's worth having your house egged to keep your freedom.

ben62670

I have a chip in my head that uses my eyes as camera's.

F1nut

Besides, monitoring our citizens just doesn't hold with the values of this country

Agreed.

The folks that would sacrifice their liberty for a little bit of security are the ones creating this huge problem and in fact, are the paranoid ones.

brettw22

I'd love to paste hundred year old quotes too, but the point is that their relevance then, can't be simply cut/pasted to todays climate.

How I could be the paranoid one by not getting my undies wound up is viewing reality through a very jacked up prism.

cokewithvanilla

brettw22 wrote: »

I'd love to paste hundred year old quotes too, but the point is that their relevance then, can't be simply cut/pasted to todays climate..

my quote was from 1990.

oh, if you think our basic rights are no longer relevant... uh... I don't really know what to say. Perhaps freedom of speech is just outdated too :rolleyes:

come to think of it, back in the day, national socialism was real modern... real cutting edge... really keeping up with the times.

zarrdoss

they're going to build a prison (for me and you to live in)