refute

DarqueKnight

From www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm:

We have been told by advertising that the exotic speaker wires offer fabulous advantages over ordinary lamp cord.

It appears that the suspension of common sense and reasoning seems to be the requisite qualification for membership in the audio naysayers cult.

I think that scrupulous manufacturers of exotic speaker wires assume that the consumer will have sense enough to use their exotic wires with similarly exotic speakers and similarly exotic associated electronics...just as scrupulous manufacturers of exotic tires assume that the consumer with have sense enough to use their exotic tires with similarly exotic cars.;)

Will the consumer realize some benefit if they put a set of exotic tires on an "ordinary" car? Maybe. Maybe not. It is not likely that the degree of benefit, if any, will rise to the level of "fabulous" as it might with a car whose performance level is appropriate to that of the exotic tires.

The manufacturers of high end, high performance tires, auto accessories, carpenter's tools, etc. are not required to place "idiot proof" disclaimers on their products. Apparently the manufacturers of high end audio and video products need to put such disclaimers on their products in order to prevent someone from using a $1000 speaker cable with a $300 receiver and a $400 set of speakers, and then claiming that they didn't hear a difference over $5 lamp cord.:);):D:p

megasat16

DK, I think Tires and Wires fall into Different category. Tires don't get ears and subjectivity involved.

Tires on the other hands are pretty standardized by codes in the automotive industry.

There is no such thing as Idiot Proof. Idiots are proven to be more genius than the Geniuses could be. They always find a way around to crap things up and it comes to them naturally without much thinking.

cstmar01

I bought my cables from an exotic country...they said exotic on the box so do I get a special treat????

hearingimpared

cstmar01 wrote: »

I bought my cables from an exotic country...they said exotic on the box so do I get a special treat????

Yeah, a two stepper snake! LOL!!!:D

DarqueKnight

megasat16 wrote: »

DK, I think Tires and Wires fall into Different category.

Of course tires and wires are in different categories, but my point was that any high end, high performance product must be used in proper context with the proper associated equipment. A car with a high performance suspension and high performance brakes will require high performance tires in order to optimize the car's ride and handling.

megasat16 wrote: »

Tires don't get ears and subjectivity involved.

For people who value a quiet and smooth ride, ears and subjectivity are involved in tire selection. Tires have an effect on the amount of road noise transmitted to a car's interior and they have an effect the amount of tactile sensation transmitted to a car's driver and passengers from the road surface. Interior noise and vibration can be measured in absolute quantitative terms, but the subjective interpretation of quietness and comfort will vary from person to person.

megasat16 wrote: »

Tires on the other hands are pretty standardized by codes in the automotive industry.

Wires use standard diameter sizes (AWG) and standard alloy mixtures.

TrashyTrucker

Man!
I have actually read this ENTIRE thread! This was very interesting to say the least, I am very glad to be a small part of this forum.

Matt

megasat16

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Of course tires and wires are in different categories, but my point was that any high end, high performance product must be used in proper context with the proper associated equipment. A car with a high performance suspension and high performance brakes will require high performance tires in order to optimize the car's ride and handling.



For people who value a quiet and smooth ride, ears and subjectivity are involved in tire selection. Tires have an effect on the amount of road noise transmitted to a car's interior and they have an effect the amount of tactile sensation transmitted to a car's driver and passengers from the road surface. Interior noise and vibration can be measured in absolute quantitative terms, but the subjective interpretation of quietness and comfort will vary from person to person.



Wires use standard diameter sizes (AWG) and standard alloy mixtures.

DK, I think we both may be saying the same thing differently.

Wires are classified and standardized with AWG, metallurgy, insulation configuration, insulation materials, stranded or solid core, materials purity, wire arrangement such as twisting, double shielding, power, bandwidth; etc. The whole EE industry uses and accept the guidelines except a small bunch of group who specialize in making products for the Audio and Audiophiles.

Tires on the other hands are classified by the Tires Manufacturers and Auto Indutry based on the rubber synthetics and steel threads, plys, height, width, as well as traction, riding comfort zone, handling, braking distance, noise, fuel economy, etc.

The difference is when you ask car owners, about 9 out of 10 people will agree certain brands and tires makes a difference in the tire performance for the same vehicle type. Almost everyone agrees that you got what you paid for the performance on the tires based on the Industry ratings. More expensive tires are generally better performer and last longer too.

For wires, you don't get the same answer which wire is better for the same type of speakers and amps in the same rig. Two different people sitting beside each other will fight to the death believe one wire is better than the other.

With wires, the price / performance ratio of certain types of cables from different manufacturers based on Industry rating such as AWG standard hardly helps two people to agree on what they can hear.

F1nut

The difference is when you ask car owners, about 9 out of 10 people will agree certain brands and tires makes a difference in the tire performance for the same vehicle type. Almost everyone agrees that you got what you paid for the performance on the tires based on the Industry ratings. More expensive tires are generally better performer and last longer too.

I have to disagree that 9 out of 10 will agree about the same tires performing the same way on the same car as that would have to assume that they are driving on the same roads in the same weather conditions and have the same driving style. Also, the more expensive tires are generally high performance tires and they do not last all that long.

megasat16

F1nut wrote: »

I have to disagree that 9 out of 10 will agree about the same tires performing the same way on the same car as that would have to assume that they are driving on the same roads in the same weather conditions and have the same driving style. Also, the more expensive tires are generally high performance tires and they do not last all that long.

I'll make it easy. What's the comfortable number for you so we can agree?

You aren't thinking about F1 performance tires, right? :eek: Yeah, tires thread wear is highly dependent upon the type of cars and driving habits. But the guideline is there and if you drive kindly, the thread wear last longer for even rough terrains. But higher performance tires optimized for one advantage as speed may not be the longest lasting tire in the group too.

I drive a lot of highway commute miles so a high performance tires for better handling, quietness, and good braking distance are my priority than the fuel economy. I also found tires manufacturers generally gives you longer mileage warranty for most of the better performing (and expensive tires) than the el cheapo tires.

I don't burn rubber a lot when I drive and I drive gently mostly. When I listen, I don't care a lot but I drive my wires crazy! :eek:

George Grand

blakeh wrote: »

Drink the wine you want, eat the food you want, and use the cables you want! The best part of this hobby is that there's always room to seek out more resolution if that's what you want. I know people who listen to their music on $50 garage sale speakers and they love it. Good for them! Personally, I'm just looking for a bit more resolution than those offer.

Then you should hear some of the speakers I get at yard sales for $10/pair.