Adcom GFP-750 or Belles 21A?

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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2010
    :D

    Yeah Fred, I don't know why I was put into that category but I guess I didn't check what color I am wearing today.

    Steve,

    I don't care if people calls my baby Ugly or what I own is Lo-Fi or Mid-Fi. I enjoy what I have and I really do. But having to hear some truth probably hurts to me (may be not coz I am not that kind of guy) and I understand I offended some here. But I felt it needs to be told coz I think it's truthful. If you think it is stick up my **** attitude, I probably deserves wearing pink today.

    Anyway, I understand why there is $2 recordings and $500 releases. It all starts out with MUSIC and what you can hear the good recording in a good rig.

    My $0.02
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited August 2010
    Mega-fi, the following isn't for you; I don't know you well enough to give a damn enough to rant on your behalf.

    Now I know why I don't come around here much anymore. Jackass egotistcal insecures who find joy in making sure everyone else knows that they haven't attained their personal level of hi-fi. The joke is on your ****--because you have truly forgotten what this hobby is all about. You suckers smell of superiority complex, and a small ****.

    Do me the honor of banning my ****, I beg you.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited August 2010
    It's all about the music, don't let anyone tell you different. Later all.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2010
    I am called Mega Nut which is fine.

    Now, back to OP quest for Adcom or Belles.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited August 2010
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    What about No-Fi?:D

    waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Richie that is what happens when mama "kicks the rig to the couch"...........

    RT1
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,244
    edited August 2010
    I owned the Belles 21A, at the time I owned the Adcom 750 and the Dodd ELP both of which I still own. The Belles is a very nice pre IMO, I didn't get rid of it cause I didn't like it I just like the way the 750 and and Dodd fit my rig better. I also liked the sound of the Dodd over the Belles with the bugle boy tubes better.

    I think as many have said, the OP needs to get his ears on them then make a choice..
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited August 2010
    megasat16 wrote: »
    I am called Mega Nut which is fine.

    Now, back to OP quest for Adcom or Belles.

    well if I am reading the review as listed by h9 it would seem that a high input impedance amplifier.....many tube amps are as well as a number of ss design........would not be the ticket for a rig with it, still an anchor or paperweight possibilities exsist.

    RT1
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2010
    I don't know RT1. Even boat anchors are useful sometimes and the OP probably needs to listen both.

    This thread gives me headaches.

    Later Guyz!
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • tcrossma
    tcrossma Posts: 1,301
    edited August 2010
    Guys, thanks for everyone replies and thoughts on the matter. I think it's safe to say that I'll probably just try one or two of the aforementioned pre's in my system and see how they sound to me. It's probably best just to move on, and I'll post my impressions once I try some new gear (probably at least a few weeks away).
    Speakers: Polk LSi15
    Pre: Adcom GFP-750 with HT Bypass
    Amp: Pass Labs X-150
    CD/DVD Player: Classe CDP-10
    Interconnects: MIT Shortgun S3 Pro XLR
    Speaker cables: MIT MH-750 bi-wire
    TT:Micro Seiki DD-35
    Cartridge:Denon DL-160
    Phono Pre:PS Audio GCPH
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited August 2010
    ok, when your done with those we can talk BAT!!!!!!!!

    RT1--no ht bypass though..........wanna talk about the red sox?????????.....
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  • tcrossma
    tcrossma Posts: 1,301
    edited August 2010
    I need HT bypass, otherwise I would be looking at BAT. My focus and preference is 2-channel, but unfortunately I only have one room to play with and for about another 10 years (for the kids) that needs to include TV and XBox 360. Having a pre with HT bypass at least lets me take all unnecessary equipment completely out of the loop while listening to music, and since 2-channel is my main focus my room setup is configured for it (i.e. speaker location and only 2.0 channels).
    Speakers: Polk LSi15
    Pre: Adcom GFP-750 with HT Bypass
    Amp: Pass Labs X-150
    CD/DVD Player: Classe CDP-10
    Interconnects: MIT Shortgun S3 Pro XLR
    Speaker cables: MIT MH-750 bi-wire
    TT:Micro Seiki DD-35
    Cartridge:Denon DL-160
    Phono Pre:PS Audio GCPH
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited August 2010
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    it would seem that a high input impedance amplifier.....many tube amps are as well as a number of ss design........would not be the ticket for a rig with it...
    Not at all,if anything it would be the opposite but even that shouldn't be an issue.In the 750 the volume control is placed after the gain stage at the output.Therefore output impedance will change in relation to the position of the pot but being as it's a low value(2k) output impedance should not exceed 600 ohms.Still low enough as to not cause any issues with noise or high frequency roll off in the audible range,due to cable capacitance.

    Now excuse me as I have to remove the stick out of me arse.
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited August 2010
    steveinaz wrote: »
    Mega-fi, the following isn't for you; I don't know you well enough to give a damn enough to rant on your behalf.

    Now I know why I don't come around here much anymore. Jackass egotistcal insecures who find joy in making sure everyone else knows that they haven't attained their personal level of hi-fi. The joke is on your ****--because you have truly forgotten what this hobby is all about. You suckers smell of superiority complex, and a small ****.

    Do me the honor of banning my ****, I beg you.


    Steve, just stop reading and posting. That will do it.
    _________________________________________________
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    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
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    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • tcrossma
    tcrossma Posts: 1,301
    edited August 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    Not at all,if anything it would be the opposite but even that shouldn't be an issue.In the 750 the volume control is placed after the gain stage at the output.Therefore output impedance will change in relation to the position of the pot but being as it's a low value(2k) output impedance should not exceed 600 ohms.Still low enough as to not cause any issues with noise or high frequency roll off in the audible range,due to cable capacitance.

    I really don't know 90% of what you just said, but one thing I'm not terribly happy about in my system right now is the fact that the volume controls is *very* sensitive.

    In Active mode on the 750 I can't turn the volume control more than a few centimeters before it gets too loud. I can't even use the remote since one press UP goes from silent to too loud.

    In Passive mode its better, but even so it is way too sensitive.

    I don't know if this has anything to do with what you were just talking about, but it sure is one thing that I'd like rectified in a new pre.
    Speakers: Polk LSi15
    Pre: Adcom GFP-750 with HT Bypass
    Amp: Pass Labs X-150
    CD/DVD Player: Classe CDP-10
    Interconnects: MIT Shortgun S3 Pro XLR
    Speaker cables: MIT MH-750 bi-wire
    TT:Micro Seiki DD-35
    Cartridge:Denon DL-160
    Phono Pre:PS Audio GCPH
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited August 2010
    tcrossma wrote: »
    I need HT bypass, otherwise I would be looking at BAT. My focus and preference is 2-channel, but unfortunately I only have one room to play with and for about another 10 years (for the kids) that needs to include TV and XBox 360. Having a pre with HT bypass at least lets me take all unnecessary equipment completely out of the loop while listening to music, and since 2-channel is my main focus my room setup is configured for it (i.e. speaker location and only 2.0 channels).

    well I did the HT by-pass thing for a few years, I fist used the little Dodd ELP Tool mentioned, a lot of pre for little dough, I remember I damm near stole it off the gon you give up an input to have Gary Dodd make it with a bypass, I sold mine to George D, I think he sold it, but if you can find one of those, it was great, I moved on to the Dodd MLP a nice step up, wider band width, more refined sound less cluttered, Trietz has it now and he is digging it you can ask him about it. but your already considering a nice tubed pre with the belles that is not crazy priced and I think would be a nice way to break into tubes.

    FTGV......there was something with the impedance mismatch and the BAT gear, its been a while, and I have been running true balanced that is stone quiet so my memory stinks, it was most noted as hiss but the SQ downgrade was evident, my Dodd tube stuff would hiss with ss but the SQ was still good and of course once the music started you could not hear it. I am talking some major issues, like Brock is describing in his test....ok apparently ftr, I have to acutally say I am kidding about the boat anchor stuff.....

    RT1
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited August 2010
    tcrossma wrote: »

    In Passive mode its better, but even so it is way too sensitive.
    Hummm,since it's apparent even in the passive mode I'm guessing it's related to the somewhat lower than normal value of the pot(2k vs the normal >10k) and not just excessive gain in the active circuitry.
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    .....there was something with the impedance mismatch and the BAT gear,
    What is BAT's input impedance?
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited August 2010
    I am going off memory it seems it was 100k each phase for the ss amp maybe a bit more for the pre-amp tiny little output imp. like .3 or .4 something like that.

    RT1
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited August 2010
    http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1287173879&/Belles-20A-Stereo-Tube-Preamp
    _________________________________________________
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    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited August 2010
    Oooooooh and looks like it is owned by one of the Doolin Dalton's......

    RT1....NA to seller
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  • vc69
    vc69 Posts: 2,500
    edited August 2010
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    Oooooooh and looks like it is owned by one of the Doolin Dalton's......

    RT1....NA to seller

    LoL... I'd like to know the back story on that statement.
    -Kevin
    HT: Philips 52PFL7432D 52" LCD 1080p / Onkyo TX-SR 606 / Oppo BDP-83 SE / Comcast cable. (all HDMI)B&W 801 - Front, Polk CS350 LS - Center, Polk LS90 - Rear
    2 Channel:
    Oppo BDP-83 SE
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    Muscial Fidelity M1 DAC
    VTL 2.5
    McIntosh 2205 (refurbed)
    B&W 801's
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited August 2010
    Good deal on a great pre,, responds very well to tube rolling and cap upgrade i replaced mine with 4 Clarity MR series caps and I don't see it going anywhere,,750 is a fair price.
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited August 2010
    megasat16 wrote: »
    :D

    Yeah Fred, I don't know why I was put into that category..
    I know you have some very nice gear in your possession but I wouldn't label you an audio princess or snob.
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    I am going off memory it seems it was 100k each phase ...
    One would'nt think 100k would create any impedance mismatch but you were experiencing some sort of compatability or synergy issue.:confused:
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    I know you have some very nice gear in your possession but I wouldn't label you an audio princess or snob.

    I am thankful for not being labeled a Drama Queen. :D;) I stopped worrying about gears and play with really cheap stuff now. I got Carver C-1 as my preamp but no SH.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited August 2010
    Well no not me H9 did with Adcom and some tube amps.

    RT1
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited August 2010
    FTGV wrote: »
    One would'nt think 100k would create any impedance mismatch but you were experiencing some sort of compatability or synergy issue.:confused:
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    Well no not me H9 did with Adcom and some tube amps.

    RT1

    Of what are we speaking? I'm having a hard time keeping up with all the conversations going on here.

    The problem was between the BAT VK-40 pre and the Aleph 30 amp when run in balanced mode. The 750 runs the BAT VK-60's (tube amps) and the Aleph 30 perfectly. I assume there was some sort of synergy issue between Blake's VK40 pre and the Aleph 30, not sure what it was but it sounded worse than a $99 receiver.

    The 750 sounded splendid with the BAT VK60 tube amps.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited August 2010
    reeltrouble1 wrote: »
    ......there was something with the impedance mismatch and the BAT gear....

    RT1
    My reply to RT1 was regarding the above quote.
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  • FTGV
    FTGV Posts: 3,649
    edited August 2010
    megasat16 wrote: »
    I got Carver C-1 as my preamp...
    Besides the volume pot are you planning any surgery for your C1?
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  • megasat16
    megasat16 Posts: 3,521
    edited August 2010
    Thanks Fred! But I am not doing any surgery to my C1. I want to keep it as much stock as can be except replacing a volume POT.
    Trying out Different Audio Cables is a Religious Affair. You don't discuss it with anyone. :redface::biggrin:
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited August 2010
    A couple reviews that are pretty much spot on with how I feel about the 750.

    http://www.stereotimes.com/amp080299.shtml

    http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue27/gfp750.htm

    http://www.stereotimes.com/amp021000.shtml

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/adcom-gfp-750-preamplifier-11-2000.html


    To the OP try to get your ears on both if you can.

    H9

    P.s. Here's a very informative post by Darqueknight

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44152
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Ricardo
    Ricardo Posts: 10,636
    edited August 2010
    Some people just don't quit.
    _________________________________________________
    ***\\\\\........................... My Audio Journey ............................./////***

    2008 & 2010 Football Pool WINNER
    SOPA
    Thank God for different opinions. Imagine the world if we all wanted the same woman
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