Adcom GFP-750 or Belles 21A?

megasat16

Check Audiogon! There are plenty of products out there (both tubes or SS) with careful design and parts selection and of coz their astronomical price tags.

Sorry for having to speak out but they both are. I guess most here knew it but some don't accept the facts.

heiney9

Which astronomically priced pre-amp do you yourself own Mega?

I don't see where anyone has said or eluded these are "high" end products, whatever that term means. $$$ doesn't always equate "high" end, well perhaps to you the more the price tag is the more high end the product is.

I don't for a minute think the Adcom or Belles or even BAT for that matter is "high" end. It's certainly not lo-fi like you absurdly suggest, but all are solidly in the mid-fi category. One is dead neutral and the other 2 add a bit of luster to the presentation, take your pick, spend your wad, get your listen on. Simple really.

H9

P.s. I would tickled pink and proud as hell to own either one. and know that they would sound fantastic.

megasat16

heiney9 wrote: »

Which astronomically priced pre-amp do you yourself own Mega?

I don't see where anyone has said or eluded these are "high" end products, whatever that term means. $$$ doesn't always equate "high" end, well perhaps to you the more the price tag is the more high end the product is.

I don't for a minute think the Adcom or Belles or even BAT for that matter is "high" end. It's certainly not lo-fi like you absurdly suggest, but all are solidly in the mid-fi category. One is dead neutral and the other 2 add a bit of luster to the presentation, take your pick, spend your wad, get your listen on. Simple really.

H9

Save your breath, H9! I am not saying they are bad and I am not here into pissing contest. I damn well know the price tag is not always mean the hi-fi. But the build quality and the parts is and some willingness to listen to what other's said about Hi-Fi and experience it yourself. I have compared many of them side by side at the time I own some Adcom and Belles pieces.

But again, like George Daniel here said. Not all things are created equal. That's why some of their best are Mid-Fi.

I guess you just have to experience most of them with different speakers how they really sounds. That's all.

leroyjr1

megasat16 wrote: »

Save your breath, H9! I am not saying they are bad and I am not here into pissing contest. I damn well know the price tag is not always mean the hi-fi. But the build quality and the parts is and some willingness to listen to what other's said about Hi-Fi and experience it yourself. I have compared many of them side by side at the time I own some Adcom and Belles pieces.

But again, like George Daniel here said. Not all things are created equal. That's why some of their best are Mid-Fi.

I guess you just have to experience most of them with different speakers how they really sounds. That's all.

Still got 18 speakers in your livingroom?

tonyb

Haven't heard either one. But I can tell you from experience that any given piece of gear is not always the sub total of the quality parts used. I've had stuff that by all means,should have sounded better because of parts used,and didn't. Design has alot to do with it. Adcom for me has always been about the grunt,the power, but lacked on the detail,the highs. Kinda like a Bronx Bully, all meat with nothing upstairs. No offence to you bronx debt collectors out there. Of coarse thats just my opinion and some will disagree. I have had a ear on some Belles amps which to me was a step up from the adcom. As we say around here...everything matters,and associated gear could /will play a part. Bang for the buck ? HT ? Yeah, the adcom will do nicely. Critical 2 channel ? I dunno,If it was me,I'd look elsewhere. Also,I am not a big adcom guy,some of you are and probably know better, all I can comment on is my own past experiences.

Ted buddy, you need to start blowing some fresh air down that rabbit hole from time to time.:):)

megasat16

Some changes here and there. Some taken out, Some added. But yeah, the number is the same for HT room.

Ricardo

Hi-Fi? Mid-Fi? Lo-Fi? I'd love someone to explain to me what these terms mean.

george daniel

One thing I've found is there are no absolutes.My Belles 20a sounds great with my Quicksilver GLA amp,,and the VTL's,, now pair it with the Quicksilver monos and it's a different story--synergy and somewhat system dependent.My shortcoming,,I quit SS pre's some time ago,,amps for that matter as well--synergy,man,, synergy,,with my Belles I discovered that tubes add excitement(tube rolling),,as by nature the Belles pre's are somewhat dark and respond well to rolling.Just my .02 worth.

megasat16

Ricardo, so you really don't know?

Lo-Fi = no-high, no-low, sounds like BOSE!

Mid-Fi = some-high, some-low, but not accurate, all those warm, cold, harsh, grainy stuff if you listen carefully.

Hi-Fi = sounds like you are in Heaven and the sweet angle is singing to your ears. Not the damn price. The sound is teasing you so you want more like honey sex. Well, it's not that bad actually. It gives you headaches if you don't hear it again the next day.

But sometimes, you only got what you paid for, guys! Don't generalize "Price doesn't mean a damn thing" even though that is true to some extent.

heiney9

megasat16 wrote: »

Ricardo, so you really don't know?

Lo-Fi = no-high, no-low, sounds like BOSE!

Mid-Fi = some-high, some-low, but not accurate, all those warm, cold, harsh, grainy stuff if you listen carefully.

Hi-Fi = sounds like you are in Heaven and the sweet angle is singing to your ears. Not the damn price. The sound is teasing you so you want more like honey sex. Well, it's not that bad actually. It gives you headaches if you don't hear it again the next day.

But sometimes, you only got what you paid for, guys! Don't generalize "Price doesn't mean a damn thing" even though that is true to some extent.

Glad I'm in the hi-fi crowd, whew.........that was close. I feared I was just a stereo schmuck.

heiney9

megasat16 wrote: »

"Price doesn't mean a damn thing" even though that is true to some extent.

megasat16 wrote:

and of coz their astronomical price tags.

Well which is it there professor stereo?

Classic waffling :rolleyes:

H9

megasat16

heiney9 wrote: »

Well which is it there professor stereo?

Classic waffling :rolleyes:

H9

Holy Begesus, man! I meant the astronomical prices for some of the gears. But what does astronomical means to you? How much is it?

Their price is not exactly that of Adcom and some Belles gears, you know? :rolleyes:

And BOTH statements are right. Just use your logic which statement applies to what gear you are talking about.

heiney9

george daniel wrote: »

One thing I've found is there are no absolutes.My Belles 20a sounds great with my Quicksilver GLA amp,,and the VTL's,, now pair it with the Quicksilver monos and it's a different story--synergy and somewhat system dependent.My shortcoming,,I quit SS pre's some time ago,,amps for that matter as well--synergy,man,, synergy,,with my Belles I discovered that tubes add excitement(tube rolling),,as by nature the Belles pre's are somewhat dark and respond well to rolling.Just my .02 worth.

I agree 1000% George...........just playing a little devils advocate with my friend Mega

Synergy is first and foremost and one of the single highest priorities. Found this out recently when pairing the Aleph 30 with my brothers BAT VK 40 pre. They don't play well together. Both exquisite pieces on their own; paired together sounded worse than a $99 receiver.

H9

tonyb

Price is only astronomical to those who can't afford it. To some,1000 bucks on a receiver is astronomical,and not worth it. Everything is relative.

heiney9

Zero wrote: »

Lo-Fi = Gear that you must have purchased from the bargain bin at Wal Mart. This is the kind of stuff that you shouldn't even admit to owning. If you make the mistake of doing so, then you just made it a whole lot tougher to fit in with the audiophile crowd.


Mid-Fi = Once you get to this level, you will no longer have to wear a dunce cap while around other audiophiles. By now, you've invested at least 20% of your yearly income (or around the price of a brand new entry level sedan) on your stereo system. This will grant you at least one invite to an audiophile get-together. While others will never outright consider your system to be great, the lo-fi n00bs will hand you enough accolades to make you feel reasonably content with what you have. Don't get too cocky though. Your system is good, but it certainly isn't great. At least not until you get to....


Hi-Fi = Every component you own is hand crafted. It weighs a ton and has the potential to drain the power grid within your town (or county, if you live in a small area). Each component that you own is worth at least $10,000 a piece, and has been specially ordained by the high end Gods. If your system stretches beyond the $100,000 mark, not only are you automatically christened a deity, but you are fully within your right to charge those with inferior systems admission to enter your audio shrine. Sexual favors are also not completely out of the question. As long as you own hi-fi, you can now sit atop your throne and tell any n00b that doesn't agree with your opinion that they "do not own a system thats capable enough of showcasing the differences between X, Y, and X". It's good to be the king.

You're joking, I hope............talk about the classic generalizations in many of those sentences. Some rings a bit true and some is just outright pomposity.

megasat16

Zero wrote: »

Lo-Fi = Gear that you must have purchased from the bargain bin at Wal Mart. This is the kind of stuff that you shouldn't even admit to owning. If you make the mistake of doing so, then you just made it a whole lot tougher to fit in with the audiophile crowd.


Mid-Fi = Once you get to this level, you will no longer have to wear a dunce cap while around other audiophiles. By now, you've invested at least 20% of your yearly income (or around the price of a brand new entry level sedan) on your stereo system. This will grant you at least one invite to an audiophile get-together. While others will never outright consider your system to be great, the lo-fi n00bs will hand you enough accolades to make you feel reasonably content with what you have. Don't get too cocky though. Your system is good, but it certainly isn't great. At least not until you get to....


Hi-Fi = Every component you own is hand crafted. It weighs a ton and has the potential to drain the power grid within your town (or county, if you live in a small area). Each component that you own is worth at least $10,000 a piece, and has been specially ordained by the high end Gods. If your system stretches beyond the $100,000 mark, not only are you automatically christened a deity, but you are fully within your right to charge those with inferior systems admission to enter your audio shrine. Sexual favors are also not completely out of the question. As long as you own hi-fi, you can now sit atop your throne and tell any n00b that doesn't agree with your opinion that they "do not own a system thats capable enough of showcasing the differences between X, Y, and Z". It's good to be the king.

Funny but some true! Agoners are like Polkies. Some haughty, some humble. Some owns Hi-End but not haughty. Some owns piece of crap but really naughty.

Wherever you go, people are people. All with attitudes. If you are lucky, you'll find a kind one.

reeltrouble1

.Brock I can't do everything. We still have some guys who can keep the bar raising here the knowledge bar. I think the Mod scared toomany with a bunch of bs banning and thread closing so the guys started a too big a love in nicey nice.

I love it when everybody gets there say no matter the say just don't curse cuz Pat is going to ban you.

Still I do not why BAT keeps getting mentioned. It is good you are talking about the parts
Adcom still they make a lot of bright to harsh gear their capacitor design is rather poor like some others power but not refined. You should look at impedance with bat and adcom if you have not already. But again this is belles vs adcom I am mobile and cp mobile stinks but eveyone carry on

RT1

heiney9

I get it Ted, this is by far the best most honest head butting discussion we've had here in a long time. We need more of this, I agree.

The reason I mention BAT is because you do or did have an affinity for it at one time and I recently listened to the VK40, 750 and Aleph 30 at Blake's, so that listening session is fresh in my mind as was an eye opener as to how well the 750 holds it own. I also found out the VK40 doesn't play well with the Aleph 30 so that takes any BAT pre's out of the running if I keep the Aleph.

Nothing more/nothing less to read into the BAT reference. I love their approach and design and they have always been on my list to own.

If I were to replace the 750

BAT, Belles, Pass, Mod Wright, CJ, ARC, Manley all would be in the running for different reasons. With the latest listening session though I was reminded that the 750 is a stellar piece and I don;t need to hastily throw it out based on what other's say about it being inferior or about others lumping it in with all other Adcom gear. Right now I have a hard time justifing the extra cost a Belles, Pass, CJ, BAT would cost with the payoff not necessarily being that great. It sort of sucks because I have the money to spend and I am apprehensive because the 750 does just about everything correct. I'm not one to spend double/triple the price to gain a tad different sound. If the 750 were severely lacking in any area it would have been gone already.......anyway that's my thought process.

It's leaps and bounds above anything Adcom had done prior.

Anyways stimulating convo as usuall, see you at PF.

H9

megasat16

Honestly, guys, why would anyone throw away GFP750 regardless of what one thinks? It's a nice piece of equipment and damn good one from Adcom.

But Belles (Tube based) and Adcom (SS) are of different origins and the OP needs to hear with his ear to both of them to decide what he likes. I choose SS for my ears and I follow the sand path. RT1 and many choose Tubes and follow glass bottles path. It's probably not saying that I won't follow Tubes path again in the future. I have my eyes set on the AR Ref Tube Pre.

I piss on Tubes not coz Tubes sounds bad, I just want to have some funs like RT1 did on the SS gears.

But why anyone cares what your gear is called? You don't know what is good till you hear better. My mind opens wider when I hear what is better than good and why people categorize gears. There is no absolutes in absolutes. Just like we call infinity for something we don't know what it is.

Tony, thanks for clarifying about the astronomical price. I totally agrees. It's an expression used for something you can't easily obtain.

heiney9

Zero wrote: »

Yep, H9, I was making a funny.

I thought so Sean.

heiney9

heiney9 wrote: »

I'm not one to spend double/triple the price to gain a tad different sound.

H9

I do have to address this; this is what I do when I buy different tubes, so in that respect I do spend sometimes double/triple to gain a tad different sound.

Just had to clarify

H9

Ricardo

megasat16 wrote: »

Ricardo, so you really don't know?

Lo-Fi = no-high, no-low, sounds like BOSE!

Mid-Fi = some-high, some-low, but not accurate, all those warm, cold, harsh, grainy stuff if you listen carefully.

Hi-Fi = sounds like you are in Heaven and the sweet angle is singing to your ears. Not the damn price. The sound is teasing you so you want more like honey sex. Well, it's not that bad actually. It gives you headaches if you don't hear it again the next day.

But sometimes, you only got what you paid for, guys! Don't generalize "Price doesn't mean a damn thing" even though that is true to some extent.

So it's one of those personal things? What's hi-fi to me might sound like lo-fi to you?

SCompRacer

Ricardo wrote: »

Hi-Fi? Mid-Fi? Lo-Fi? I'd love someone to explain to me what these terms mean.

What about No-Fi?:D

megasat16

Ricardo wrote: »

So it's one of those personal things? What's hi-fi to me might sound like lo-fi to you?

Personal thing? More like what you or what I can hear. Of coz, not every one agrees on those and no need to. Isn't Audio about you do what you like to hear? I think it's very personal in that sense.

Ask BOSE owners!

FTGV

heiney9 wrote: »

Other than glue logic and the transistors used to drive the relays, the 12 active devices—four gain blocks, each with three devices—are HEXFETs from International Rectifier. The output stage is intended to function as a pure voltage source, making the GFP-750 relatively immune to cable differences or low amplifier impedances. As we've come to expect from Adcom, the preamp sports a honkin' big toroidal transformer, with multiple secondary windings for each channel. A large heatsink on the left-hand side carries the power supply regulator chips.

Both signal and control circuitry is carried on one large double-sided printed circuit board, though these are physically separated. The parts quality is superb throughout, and care has been taken to keep signal paths as short as possible. The input switching relays, for example, are all adjacent to the rear-panel sockets. Did somebody mention the proverbial brick outhouse?

In passive mode, the signal sees only input switching and the attenuator.

I take it this is a quote from a magazine review?

Other than maybe the apparently cheap coupling caps used there isn't much to criticize about the 750 from a design standpoint.

steveinaz

megasat16 wrote: »

I think it's a little hot in here.

RT1's tubes must be burning bright red again.

I don't care what's inside both Adcom or Belles personally even if I know what it means. There is a reason why they both are LO-Fi to Mid-Fi products.

But hearing is believing regardless if what's put inside Adcom and Belles. Let the OP listen with his own ears. He may hear a difference or may not hear any difference between tubes and sand at all.

Great, someone else with the audiophile stick up their ****, wonderful. I don't think I rate high enough to be a part of this fine audio forum. :rolleyes:

If you're so "schooled" what the hell are you doing on a Polk Audio forum?

Lots of high-end audio-princesses lately, what the hell happened to enjoying MUSIC? You either get it, or you don't; pity for those who really don't get it.

megasat16

steveinaz wrote: »

Great, someone else with the audiophile stick up their ****, wonderful. I don't think rate enough to be a part fo this fine audio forum. :rolleyes:

If you'rs so "schooled" what the hell are you doing on a Polk Audio forum?

Lots of high-end audio-princesses lately, what the hell happened to enjoying MUSIC?

I honestly don't know what you mean. Take your meds. I am OLD school and I am more practical than schooled. I put the school papers where they belong.

What the hell am I doing here? Just like you, wasting some senseless time.

If hearing the truth hurts a little, it must be TRUE!

At least, I enjoy my MUSIC!

FTGV

Audio Princess,James say it aint so bro!:eek::D

steveinaz

I LOVE my low-fi system; it was cheap and it sounds good. I also like giving advice to new comers to hi-fi, minus the stick up my ****--because not everyone can afford that kind of hardware. Good music can be found at ANY level of gear, if you're into music and not gear.

tonyb

Exactly right Steve, good music can be had on the cheap regardless of the name plate on the gear. With some though,the gear has become less about the music and more about status. For some anyway. The flipside is there are some who just enjoy that search for great sound,regardless of price because they can afford it. More power to those who do.