Adcom GFP-750 or Belles 21A?

tcrossma

I currently have a GPF-750 pre and am thinking of moving it out and replacing it with a Belles 21A. I need HT bypass, and I want to try tubes. Both of these are the main reason for homing in on the 21A.

So, is this a good move, bad move, lateral move?

Toolfan66

I have had both, and that's a big toss up IMO as they are both great pre/amps. Can you keep the 750 and get the belles and try it out? Then make a choice? I kept the 750 as I had the Dodd ELP as well. Now that's what I have in my 2 channel rig.

And can I have first shot at the 750??:)

Good Luck!!

heiney9

Tough choice and to be fair you need to compare them to see which one you prefer. The 750 is an awesome pre, but the Belles with it's tube magic will be alluring. I have settled with both the 750 and a tube pre running thru the HT bypass so I have a LOT of flexibility. Tubes, solid state and passive.........got the bases covered.

Good luck.....tough choice.

H9

Ern Dog

Well I've never heard either preamp you are considering, but I wanted to throw in another one for consideration that fits your criteria. Modwright SWL 9.0SE comes with HT bypass, tubes, remote, and sounds Fabulous. You can get them used for $1000. It's a very linear preamp and does not produce a "tubey" sound or overly-romantic sound. It's neutral, but this can be tweaked depending on which tubes you are using. In my rig it adds a very large soundstage and adds weight to the instruments. I hate thin sounding music, so this did the trick for me Plus you have the option of upgrading to the Signature Edition which gave me even more of the same.

markmarc

Between the two, I'd chose the Belles 21, IMHO it would have better synergy with the Pass Labs Amp. But I'm a bit biased towards tube preamps.

heiney9

markmarc wrote: »

Between the two, I'd chose the Belles 21, IMHO it would have better synergy with the Pass Labs Amp. But I'm a bit biased towards tube preamps.

FTR, I have a 750 with a Pass Aleph and it has no synergy issues. Also the 750 was designed by Nelson Pass.

Again, tough choice because they are both excellent and very musical pre-amps with the Adcom probably being a bit more neutral. If I ever decide to replace the 750 and the Dared tube pre-amp and have a single piece, the Belles is on my short list along with BAT and Manley and Eastern Electric, and a few others I can't think of right now.

H9

tcrossma

Thanks guys, I think I'll have to try one out before getting rid of my 750 then. And thanks for the heads-up on the Modwright, I'll take a look at it.

reeltrouble1

I really cant believe this crap.

These two are in totally different leagues, not even close, the Adcom would make a nice boat anchor though.

RT1

Toolfan66

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I really cant believe this crap.

These two are in totally different leagues, not even close, the Adcom would make a nice boat anchor though.

RT1

Ouch!!!!!:p

heiney9

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I really cant believe this crap.

These two are in totally different leagues, not even close, the Adcom would make a nice boat anchor though.

RT1

Believe it!

When you sit down and listen to both...............then you can make that comment. In fact, I just put the Adcom against Blake's BAT and damn if it didn't hold it's own and the differences were subtle at best. Was there a difference? Sure. Was one clearly better than the other? Not at all.

BAT was going to be my next pre, now I'm not sure the extra cost is really worth it.

Just my .02c and keeping it reel.

H9

reeltrouble1

I do not believe that crap for a second, lets not forget who the rookie is, Adcom, give me a break, mid-fi at best, harsh yes, design ain't manufacture. I will make all the comments I like, you dont have to agree, you dont have to like them, you can go complain to anyone you like.

The harshness of Adcom was discovered here long before your fan waving started, you like them, great, but lets cut the crap, belles is way out front of Adcom. To mention Adcom and BAT in same world.......waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

RT1

heiney9

For all the raving you do about BAT gear and as much as you think Adcom is of a lowely nature. I was a little disappointed the BAT didn't perform better against the 750. Lots and lots of hype with the BAT so much so I was actually going to buy one at some point; I still might. But my ears don't lie and while the BAT was excellent, so was the 750.

One thing Adcom will never touch is BAT's customer service. Blake has had 2 issues with the VK-60 mono's and 2 problems with the VK-40 pre (seems like a lot for such a high end brand) but BAT has been exemplary at making things right and with a quick turn around and low fee's. That there says a lot, IMO.

Think what you want, degrade, stir the pot, try to get me going, etc............I'm not biting and the 750 is a stellar performer and it just goes to show you can't believe what other people say all the time, blindly.......sometimes you need to find out for yourself.

H9

steveinaz

What exactly does "way out in front of the Adcom" sound like?

steveinaz

Ern Dog wrote: »

Well I've never heard either preamp you are considering, but I wanted to throw in another one for consideration that fits your criteria. Modwright SWL 9.0SE comes with HT bypass, tubes, remote, and sounds Fabulous. You can get them used for $1000. It's a very linear preamp and does not produce a "tubey" sound or overly-romantic sound. It's neutral, but this can be tweaked depending on which tubes you are using. In my rig it adds a very large soundstage and adds weight to the instruments. I hate thin sounding music, so this did the trick for me Plus you have the option of upgrading to the Signature Edition which gave me even more of the same.

I have drooled many a time over that Modwright. If I ever make the transition to a tubed pre, it'll likely be that preamp.

heiney9

FTR, I'm just trying to relate my experiences to the OP. He asked specifically about the 750 and I gave my specific impressions. Without name calling or degrading comments.

H9

munk

A very sad day, indeed, as Adcom owners across the continents wail, nash their teeth, and commit suicide....

reeltrouble1

yea, can't every recall you never ever doing any of that name calling degrading stuff...................................I have even heard whispers of a saint heiney grass roots campaign underway.

see you soon. I will see if I can find some Adcom undie swag.

belles trumps adcom, not exactly a news flash.

I would even consider a big belles mono for the Rabbit Hole someday, I have used them with my speakers for a time, divorced from Adcom years ago as the piece was complete crapola, noisey hissing thing, thank you though for keeping track of my posts, I appreciate having the light work handled, although, can't exactly recall when I last was raving about BAT, not that they may not deserve it, got a date for me or would you look it up???

RT1

reeltrouble1

steveinaz wrote: »

What exactly does "way out in front of the Adcom" sound like?

well get on your horse and pay a visit, Arizonian's are welcome in Ga. But were going to Fl. to get a belles groove on.

RT1

Ricardo

Hey Ted, something wrong big guy? Maybe some paypal issues?

reeltrouble1

hey, didn't you move from belles to adcom Ricardo........not.

hmmmmmm...........didn't you move to a bat pre........seems you may of wasted your dough, dont feel bad, seems like I did too.

i am fine, just busy taking out the trash these days.

paypal stinks.

RT1

steveinaz

I'm afraid my horse will trip over that rather large chip on your shoulder, and end up lame.

Toolfan66

I guess I should just toss my Adcom gear in the trash since now I know it sounds like crap. Humm back to the drawing board. I just pissed away a year of hard work and dedication to a system that sounds like crap.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction RT1...

You are my god and I shall follow you..

reeltrouble1

thank you, however, beware the bright light.

RT1

reeltrouble1

steveinaz wrote: »

I'm afraid my horse will trip over that rather large chip on your shoulder, and end up lame.

naw, Old Paint will be fine, just be careful stepping round the adcom boneyard.

well thanks for the break, I am headed to the house.

being happy to send out some ear plugs for those who may now feel they need them.

RT1

reeltrouble1

sm88 wrote: »

I've owned Adcom, and took one apart to upgrade the binding posts, I wasn't impressed with the build quality. They are very inexpensive, which is a plus, but I found their highs to be harsh and a little grainy, which was alleviated completely once I got the Parasound.

oh my:eek:

RT1

george daniel

Eh,, lets not even speak of the Belles 20A,, mine will never leave,,,please note,,20A,,not 21A--there is a difference.;)

Ricardo

George, I've heard the Adcoms don't sound too good in Georgia.

reeltrouble1

hey GD, good to see you, pain meds must be working. Hear your making Carver Fest. That Belles certainly rocks.

RT1

reeltrouble1

Ricardo wrote: »

George, I've heard the Adcoms don't sound too good in Georgia.

must be the humidity..........seems as though mountain air does them well....

RT1--bear polker.

Toolfan66

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

must be the humidity..........seems as though mountain air does them well....

RT1--bear polker.

Maybe it's just being proud of what one has acomplished in a short time, I know someday my Adcom setup will be a thing of the past. But rest assure if and when I go deeper in what you like to call the rabbit hole I won't be an ****..

Hope being on your soap box has got you feeling better about yourself..

Larry.

george daniel

Ricardo wrote: »

George, I've heard the Adcoms don't sound too good in Georgia.

mine were like the georgia sun,,,,,kinda bright