Behold the future of high end audio retail

Rev. Hayes

I guess since I posted in this thread I should state my opinion.

Coke,
I tend to lean your way philosophical but...

I do make every effort to buy locally when I can and I think that a majority of people doing so is the only course to a sustainable local economy. My pre and amp are made in America and that was a big selling point for me. That said, I generally can't afford to shop at one of my local hi-fi B&M's

(aside: the one time I tried to the salesman basically insulted me for asking if they carried a decent phono pre for less than $300)

so looking on the net for a good deal on good sound just makes sense.

cokewithvanilla

Rev. Hayes wrote: »

(aside: the one time I tried to the salesman basically insulted me for asking if they carried a decent phono pre for less than $300)

so looking on the net for a good deal on good sound just makes sense.

I totally see where you're coming from. I've been insulted by too many salesmen. Funny thing is, I never really thought how much salesmen make... the guy who insults me is likely making $15 dollars an hour and will be doing so the rest of his life... it's amazing that they have the arrogance to say things when they, themselves, cannot afford what they are selling.

Dealing with sales people is one of the reasons I hate shopping

snow wrote: »

This message is hidden because cokewithvanilla is on your ignore list

Yes yes, well done. Keep up the good work

munk

SWB502; Good post.
I know Russia didn't have unions, and the Poles unionizing helped turn the tide. Actually, Poland going independent turned the tide, but the ones who led the charge also were instrumental in the Solidarity movement. But I mentioned the union because it is a collective solution that does not ultimately work- it seems to be a solution only in the earlier stages of production development. If we all worked for unions we'd make 32 cents an hour. A union is a contract at public expense. Our auto workers make 70 bucks an hour so TEN 7 Eleven clerks gets minimum wage. Capitalism can be brutal. The unions are an attempt to change that. But they fall. Dodge and Chevy fell. Until SEIU backed our current president, they were nearly bankrupt.

Russia made good MG's- their jets. Not as good as ours ultimately, (and isn't that the point in War?) but they could take a lot of damage and had redundant flying systems, something I wish we had. But that and the AK47 is about it. What's the name of the infamous Soviet car that couldn't drive itself off the lot without a breakdown? Russia has a new combat arm design, did you know that? Engineers are swooning over it, it has a recoiling barrel and a gas piston, two forms of operation that allow two bullets to theorhetically be aimed at and strike nearly the same point. Or something like that...they really wanted to make them, but they're BROKE and cannot. They can't outfit their own armies with them. Last time I checked, US armed forces were the smartest and best equiped soldiers in the world. Capitalism in Russia is still in infancy.

You state we can't compete with a centrally controlled capitalism market like China? I don't really know what you mean by that, but Europe is chock full of centrally controlled socialist nations that are even in worse debt than we are, and this is after the US funded the lion's share of the security cost of the Cold War for them. I guess they got the real 'peace dividend.

Nation's whose governments 'run' the means of production always fail.

It's awful they have cheap labor. It's awful they are polluting their own rivers which then run into a shared ocean. It's awful Brazil is cutting down its rainforest, but I know an awful lot of yuppies who vote green but whose apartments are furnished with Brazilian oak.

They won't have cheap labor forever. The Chinese are buying automobiles. The middle class will not work for shop labor. But this takes time. In the short run we are getting hit hard. We need more companies like Sram.

Remember American Steel? How great we were after WWll, taking the market from the Germans and Brits? Goodbye Solingen;hello Detroit. I used to believe it was just our labor costs which lost us steel manufacture, but my old man was a QA engineer and he told me the American companies refused to modernize, refused the intro of CNC and refined production, and lost at least at much by that as by labor.

We need to make smart. I agree the Chinese don't play fair. None of this is fair. We have to be very careful about solutions,though, because of the laws of unintended consequences.

To get back to HiFi; I think the net is already changing business. I have hopes the net will free a lot of us- people talking across borders. That hasn't happened before- and oh yeah- the US was primarily responsible for it's creation, were we not? (and not Al Gore...)

I buy as good a stereo component as I can afford, and have the expectation there will be companies in the future who will want to make them. Many products are going to be a world effort with parts and materials from different places. There is no turning the clock back. And I'll continue to buy american when I can.

I'd like to hear a solution to the theft of intellectual property by thieves in Hong Kong. A lot of intellectual property is ours.





munk

Rev. Hayes

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Funny thing is, I never really thought how much salesmen make... the guy who insults me is likely making $15 dollars an hour

Actually, I think in a hi-fi retail situation they tend to make a good bit more and I don't mind paying a premium for good service when the salesman knows way more than I do. But when it's too much trouble to help someone who may in the future be a "big spender" then the system isn't working.

snow wrote: »

This message is hidden because cokewithvanilla is on your ignore list

I don't think he's talking to you anymore

munk wrote: »

I'd like to hear a solution to the theft of intellectual property by thieves in Hong Kong. A lot of intellectual property is ours.

Now there's any interesting topic that's somewhat relevant......

swb502

Munk:

I’m not sure what your talking about for redundancy systems in Russian jets vs Americans? American systems tend to have two electronic systems and 1 hydraulic where Russia system tend to have 2 or 3 hydraulic systems. The A-10 as 1 electronic and 3 hydraulics due to its CAS role, For weapons I assume you mean the AK-107? I think Venezuela is going to produce them under contract. That might be 103s.

What I mean for Central control capitalism isn’t a correct idea between it. I should say a stable fair system. If companies know the rules they have to play by and their competitors and know they won’t change they’ll tend to be very productive. Currently because the rules keep chaning companies seem to be trutling up, hording cahs until they find out what the rules are going to be.

I read The Forgotten Man, it was a history of the great depression and it talks about how allot of companies just got slammed by FDRs parchment for changing laws, and specific industry targets. That seems to be the same thing we have going on now. In a wider sense without a common enemy outside of the US, the spilt in our government means allot of things are always changing which freaks out investors.

American Steel was one of the first companies I bought stock in, I think it was 4 cents a share when I bought it, and then it went to 0 cents a share. I believe I still own 2000 shares if the name ever gets bought, me and the twenty million other people with the stick will get a penny.

I’m originally from Buffalo so Steel is sort of something close to home, of course we had Bethlehem Steel. Which as you said, just didn’t modernize when the US was helping the Germans, French, Japanese’s and the Koreans get into the steel milling business with ultra modern equipment, with no unions or safety laws. Ours were fat and bloated and old. It just got to the point it wasn’t worth investing in. I don’t know what Sram is or anything bout there model.

Finally back to HiFi, I buy stuff the internet recommends to me. This board has done allot to get me to buy a pair of Monitor 70s Polk in the first place. Then I went to Big Box Store and listen to what they had on the floor and the 70s were head and shoulders better. I then bought the rest of my monitors online. I clearly contributed to the downfall of B&M stores in my introduction to Hi-Fi.

sucks2beme

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Hah. Well, considering I'm a not quite out of college yet, and snow is probably in his 70's, (:D) I guess it is to be expected. .

Damn kids!

Yes, old age will throw you a curve ball, just like the rest of us.
I remember my old man saying stuff that seemed stupid. Now
years after he's gone, they hit me like a ton of lead, and I remember.
Some day this little thread will come back into your mind, and the light
bulb will come on. Yes., I know audio stores are in trouble and why. I don't
have the fix, and I will miss them when they are gone. We aren't stupid.
We can see it coming. It doesn't make it any easier.

My world is ending, yours is just beginning. Don't screw it up!

TECHNOKID

swb502 wrote: »

Coke is young, hasn’t gone to school yet, hasn’t been in the ‘real world’ yet. He’ll likely learn these lessons, 1. or like a great deal of America contribute to a problem that will correct itself. 2. Markets always correct, its just a matter of time and understanding. 3. Mind you it took 70 years for the USSR to correct and Russia is still trying hard to survive a correction of that magnitude.
A little reading and a little life experience will fix him up yet. Its not different then when I showed up here and thought all Tubes were good for was surviving an EMP.

1. America's propaganda has done its time with the "Buy American" while mega billion businesses were laughing at the faces of Americans by using foreign products at cheap slavery labor cost and selling them as American products while cashing huge profits at the face of their supporters. I guess the average Joe American has evolved and realized how abused they were! Isn't Walmart a true American business? Aren't they the best example of decadence? Was there business model really to benefit America as a whole or to take advantage of slavery labor in countries were no true American should be encouraging such behavior (slavery that is)? Did Walmart ethics and business model truly benefit the average Joe American or the self induce mega billion business?

2. Your are correct, market changes, it hurts, it scares people (mainly people that are afraid of changes) but it always correct it self.

3. USSR is definitely not a good example in this discussion IMHO. It doesn't reflect what is happening in this specific new world trade business exchange.

Ain't America (or mainly the US) still the wealthiest country in the world? What if it was the second, would it be soooo bad???? Not all of the US pain has been created by the world economy (or even the Chinese) quite the opposite IMHO, the US of America has gain alot from foreign business exchange however, it was kept by the wealthy minority and never shared with the mass. This multi billion planet control was never invented by the Chinese, right? So, you are partially right about some Americans being part of the problem but IMHO, it is not the majority (average Joe American) but rather the greedy controlling minority As a true American, shouldn't one share the wealth rather than control it and find every possible way to gain more by using the hopeless simply to create a selfish empire?

nedh84 wrote: »

1. I assume swb502 and snow have never purchased anything from a Walmart before? Otherwise you are just being hypocritical. How many mom and pop shops has Walmart and the like put under? Where do you buy your eggs? Albertsons? Stater Brothers? Vons? Or the local grower down the street. Your avocados typically come from Chile by the way. Who knows where your tomatoes come from.

2. At the end of the day the USA has to put out a better product at a fair price to compete. In today's world market the world consumer is looking at two factors: 3. quality and cost. Without those incentives no one will purchase anything.
I'm all about buying products made in the USA but face it. 4. Most products that we buy aren't made in the USA. Its a world market out there... we don't live in Cuba.

1. Very good points about Walmart! The exact type of company that can lead the world into poverty for their own selfish gain. When enough is enough? Does an eager company has to put everyone at the starving level in order to be satisfied???

2. Exactly, 50% and above margins doesn't cut it with me if we are talking fair pricing. Sorry, can't recall which post was talking about the 10$ for 10$ service/produce exchange this is actually backing up that what is happening here is simply not fair and simply not working. As a worker your employer may provide you what? 5$ to trade for that 10$ item? Or maybe even worse? The US auto makers Bankruptcy affair, the average Joe worker was the big looser, lost his job, lost his pensions, benefits but does anyone stop and ask them selves this question; How many billions did the auto maker and his withe collars acolytes walk away with? Not counting the affront when they dared asked governments ALL across NA for back-up at the expense of the average Joe tax payers :eek:

3. IMHO, that is what Internet services may provoke, a fair deal; quality versus cost.

4. The propaganda of buying American should definitely stop there when most products actually comes from foreign countries at ridiculous pricing... Bring the fair price that is due on a cheaply paid/acquired product!

snow wrote: »

Are you and cokehead butt buddies? just curious?

REGARDS SNOW

Snow, I really enjoy crossing discussion path with you, you are certainly entertaining but also quite stubborn to the point of turning a conversation into a nightmare when you do not agree. Wouldn't that be nice to agree to disagree :cool::D You really seem to enjoy the confrontation, am I correct?

rubin wrote: »

I have had my fair share of misdealings with audio B&M retailers.The Internet is a great tool for finding information and recreational enjoyment.It's an easy and efficient way of doing product and pricing comparisons.I am using it now to purchase audio products, eliminating the middle man. This is unfortunate for honest retailers but I have no sympathy for the dishonest ones.

Eliminating the middle man is a big part of the equation. This is IMHO what props manufacturer to have minimal price tag expectations, IMHO, the manufacturers are actually threatened held hostage by their dealers. It wouldn't be fair for me to mention exactly which speaker company but while approached for dealership, I got to see the MSRPs versus the dealer cost and couldn't believe the profit margin. The rep"s answer was in fact this company had problems getting dealers because they actually felt the profit margins weren't high enough and while this is an old (proven) and respected company, the dealers would prefer to opt for other brands dealership which provide much heftier profit margins (as I pointed out, in my eyes the profit margin was EFTHY and WORTHY of consideration!) :eek:

Now, we also have to be careful of online shopping as while great deals can be had, there are also some crooks out there that simply care about their profit and do not care for an instant about the average Joe consumers (except for their money of course).

snow wrote: »

This message is hidden because cokewithvanilla is on your ignore list

Yep! It sure is :rolleyes:;)

organ

I noticed that it was mentioned a few times in this thread that audio stores are going out of business. This depends where you are. To some readers browsing this thread, they would get the impression that it's happening everywhere. That is not the case.

There are a lot of them in my city and they're doing much better now than they were a few years ago.
Many dealers offer consignment which I think is great. Also, many of them sell online as well. So it's great that they have a store but can also ship to people who are too far away.

Just thought I'd point that out.

snow

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Snow, I really enjoy crossing discussion path with you, you are certainly entertaining but also quite stubborn to the point of turning a conversation into a nightmare when you do not agree. Wouldn't that be nice to agree to disagree :cool::D You really seem to enjoy the confrontation, am I correct?

Not sure what your even doing in this discussion, I assume its because of some envy thing with the USA? Personally I could care less about Canadian economics so I stay out of them.

Sometimes I enjoy the confrontation yes, especailly if the person that im having a discussion with turns out to be a selfish sociopathic liar and douchebag that doesnt deserve to live here. Other times if the discussion is just that a discussion then of course I have no problem stating my oppinion then letting it be.




REGARDS SNOW

snow

lightman1 wrote: »

I think the "heat":rolleyes: is getting to snow. What did it get up to today, buddy? 87-88 degrees?:D

No one asked for your oppinion either



REGARDS SNOW

organ

C'mon. Let's all get along now.

lightman1

organ wrote: »

C'mon. Let's all get along now.

Never!:mad:

Rev. Hayes

snow wrote: »

Careful or you will join the same list as cokehead
SNOW

This thread is finally getting interesting thanks to real posts from the likes of organ and technokid and you're crapping on it.

We all like a laugh, but what's the drive friend?

TECHNOKID

Not sure what your even doing in this discussion, I assume its because of some envy thing with the USA? Personally I could care less about Canadian economics so I stay out of them.

No envy there snow. Keep im mind Canada is part of North America which USA is also part of. Fortunately for us here in canada (but very unfortunate for the US) this recession didn't affect both countries as badly (and I do feel for how badly our neighbours are hit. I read you guys but generally just STFU and appreciate how fortunate I may be on my side of the border). However, in this case I don't feel I am an intruder as this discussion started about online deals and the slow death of B&M high end stores. What the USA goes through is usually "mirrored" or "waved" across the border. There might be slight differences how each country may live through the trials but overall, it is quite close of an experience. USA and Canada both experience the global economy effect along with the virtual store shoppimg that is happening and which actually makes this planet a much smaller place. Changes are a shock at times and hurt like hell but in the long run, it settles and balances. Personnally, you can call me selfish but while i've learned to be giving with the poor and the hopeless, I also learned to maximise my $$$ when shopping, I don't need to give as much to the rich, heck he is richer than I am! IMHO, virtual shopping may simply be the step toward getting a fair deal even from the greedy minority. Don't get me wrong, I admire success but never at the expense of the average Joe

snow wrote: »

Careful or you will join the same list as cokehead



REGARDS SNOW

Goodness you really caught me here :eek: I tought you couldn't see me :eek::p

lightman1 wrote: »

I think the "heat":rolleyes: is getting to snow. What did it get up to today, buddy? 87-88 degrees?:D

Are U suggesting he is melting or steaming :D

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Man, snow really thinks he is important. How many times has he threatened to put someone on his ignore list? Wow, real scary.

Seems like he can't get along with anyone who has an opinion contrary to his own.

Maybe he forgot to take his pills today

Coke, don't take it soseriously, he his playing with you If you bite, then he catches a fish Don't be so emotiva :cool:

mdaudioguy

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Keep im [in] mind Canada is part of North America which USA is also part of.

So's Mexico. We're all North American brothers.

Why do I enjoy reading this thread so much? What's wrong with me.

At first, I just wanted it to go away, now I just feel like a rubber-necker passing a bad accident. :eek: I just can't help looking!

TECHNOKID

mdaudioguy wrote: »

So's Mexico. We're all North American brothers.

Why do I enjoy reading this thread so much? What's wrong with me.

At first, I just wanted it to go away, now I just feel like a rubber-necker passing a bad accident. :eek: I just can't help looking!

ROTFLMAO, same here, I tought it should be closed but I am too that rubber necker sniffing the bad accident, asking questions, commenting and not going to BED :eek:

And yes, MEXICO is family too Humm, I guess I should learn a third language now :cool:

Anyway, un-disciplined TK will get of work premises and aim for the Holy Bed, I promess I won"t rubber neck this thread from me Lapitopia

snow

TECHNOKID wrote: »

No envy there snow. Keep im mind Canada is part of North America which USA is also part of. Fortunately for us here in canada (but very unfortunate for the US) this recession didn't affect both countries as badly (and I do feel for how badly our neighbours are hit. I read you guys but generally just STFU and appreciate how fortunate I may be on my side of the border). However, in this case I don't feel I am an intruder as this discussion started about online deals and the slow death of B&M high end stores. What the USA goes through is usually "mirrored" or "waved" across the border. There might be slight differences how each country may live through the trials but overall, it is quite close of an experience. USA and Canada both experience the global economy effect along with the virtual store shoppimg that is happening and which actually makes this planet a much smaller place. Changes are a shock at times and hurt like hell but in the long run, it settles and balances. Personnally, you can call me selfish but while i've learned to be giving with the poor and the hopeless, I also learned to maximise my $$$ when shopping, I don't need to give as much to the rich, heck he is richer than I am! IMHO, virtual shopping may simply be the step toward getting a fair deal even from the greedy minority. Don't get me wrong, I admire success but never at the expense of the average Joe

Fair enough.



REGARDS SNOW

Amherst

To summarize: The general collective on this thread seems to think that a country must produce something to sustain.
Coke and friends believe a service based economic agenda will work instead.


Well it has been about thirty or more years this country has pushed the service economy, and all I see out of it so far is CEO,s walking away with wheelbarrows full of money and the average Joe with declining income. Ma and Pa shops of every kind eliminated so the top brass can stuff their pockets.

Is this really the BS schools are teaching or kids?

Disparity between the social classes is at an historical high. How did it get there?

Doesn't take a genius and enough time has passed to consider the service based economy a failed agenda designed to benefit the well to do. End.

rubin

A service based economy is a consumer nation.A country that doesen't produce for either export or trade is doomed.Industry is the backbone.

BlueFox

Amherst wrote: »

Well it has been about thirty or more years this country has pushed the service economy, and all I see out of it so far is CEO,s walking away with wheelbarrows full of money and the average Joe with declining income. Ma and Pa shops of every kind eliminated so the top brass can stuff their pockets.

Is this really the BS schools are teaching or kids?

Disparity between the social classes is at an historical high. How did it get there?

No, it is not the BS that is causing the problem. It is the MBA.

munk

I must have been reading a different thread; I can't recall anyone here arguing for a service based economy.

Does Canada export anything into the US besides wood products and Rock Stars?

They do have the same problems as we do. Fortunately for them, their pop is relatively small. Canada's most successful toy company, Mega Bloks, are also made in China. They had a successful firearms company but I think they moved to the US. Savage still imports the "favorite' from Canada....so we'll add a little .22 to the manufacturing side of Canada. A lot of Canadians work for the health industries, the one that costs too much in taxes and has waiting lines. We'll have that in the US soon to; we can all become Xray Technicians....with machines made in China?


Yes, Industry is the backbone. We'll probably follow the Great Britain model and the sun will set....

On a more serious note; I think having a collective society- a progressive society is at least as much of a danger to the US as anything else mentioned in this thread. I can't see innovation emerging out of higher taxes, the ones we'll need to support all the 'must haves'. Europe is moving away from that model while the US recently plunged in deep.
The riots in Greece were because salaries were going to have to be cut. There was also a reccomendation that the health industries be privatized more.

We really can't all work for the Government. I doubt the US government could build a decent stereo system that didn't cost 200,000.

rubin

We need health care,police, firemen,teachers etc.All this drains the gov't. Private (non government) workers pay income tax to help. The government is paying out more than is coming in. A service based workforce that is larger than the commodities workforce has done its damage.

mrbigbluelight

swb502 wrote: »

ned:
I’m just well aware of the damage it causes and understand its not something I can adjust on my own. It has to be adjusted at the Federal level. Because if I stop someone will fill my spot

With all due respect, that is the same sentiment expressed by train guards at Dachau, Buchewald, and Treblinka in WWII.

munk

Rubin;

I really doubt the millions of employed by the IRS, the dept of Agriculture, or our new 'free health care' count as essentials like Fire and rescue.


Let me repeat this; the Greeks are looking to privatise health care to hold costs down.

We're going the wrong direction.

TECHNOKID

munk wrote: »

I must have been reading a different thread; I can't recall anyone here arguing for a service based economy.

Does Canada export anything into the US besides wood products and Rock Stars?

They do have the same problems as we do. Fortunately for them, their pop is relatively small. Canada's most successful toy company, Mega Bloks, are also made in China. They had a successful firearms company but I think they moved to the US. Savage still imports the "favorite' from Canada....so we'll add a little .22 to the manufacturing side of Canada. A lot of Canadians work for the health industries, the one that costs too much in taxes and has waiting lines. We'll have that in the US soon to; we can all become Xray Technicians....with machines made in China?


Yes, Industry is the backbone. We'll probably follow the Great Britain model and the sun will set....

On a more serious note; I think having a collective society- a progressive society is at least as much of a danger to the US as anything else mentioned in this thread. I can't see innovation emerging out of higher taxes, the ones we'll need to support all the 'must haves'. Europe is moving away from that model while the US recently plunged in deep.
The riots in Greece were because salaries were going to have to be cut. There was also a reccomendation that the health industries be privatized more.

We really can't all work for the Government. I doubt the US government could build a decent stereo system that didn't cost 200,000.

Here's some stats Canada < = > USA

Sugar, zinc & precious metals are fastest growing Canadian exports to the U.S. while copper, gold & nuclear fuels are fast-growing imports into Canada from America.

Canada exported US$303.4 billion worth of merchandise to the United States in 2006, up 4.5% from 2005 and up 45% in just 4 years.

Canadian imports from the U.S. rose 8.7% to $230.3 billion in 2006, up 43.1% since 2002.

Canada’s largest trading partner is America, and America’s largest trading partner is Canada.


Read more at Suite101: Canada's Top Exports & Imports: Most Popular Products in Trade Between Canada & America http://internationaltrade.suite101.com/article.cfm/canadas_top_exports_imports#ixzz0wybRoiYo

The relation between the way the 2 countries are ticking is far more important than what most think.

Quebec, Canada (Hydro Quebec) is a huge electricity expoter to the USA. Most of Alberta raw petroleum is exported to the USA (while Canada buys most of its petroleum from theUSA ). The Quebec largest Pharmacy chain (Jean Coutu) bought: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Coutu_Group

Trade and Investment
The U.S. and Canada enjoy an economic partnership unique in the world. The two nations share the world's largest and most comprehensive trading relationship, which supports millions of jobs in each country. In 2008, total trade between the two countries exceeded $610 billion. The two-way trade that crosses the Ambassador Bridge between Detroit, Michigan and Windsor, Ontario equals all U.S. exports to Japan. Canada's importance to the U.S. is not just a border-state phenomenon: Canada is the leading export market for 36 of the 50 U.S. States, and ranked in the top three for another 10 States. In fact, Canada is a larger market for U.S. goods than all 27 countries of the European Community combined, whose population is more than 15 times that of Canada. The comprehensive U.S.-Canada Free Trade Agreement (FTA), which went into effect in 1989, was superseded by the North American Free Trade Agreement among the United States, Canada, and Mexico (NAFTA) in 1994. NAFTA, which embraces more than 450 million people of the three North American countries, expanded upon FTA commitments to move toward reducing trade barriers and establishing agreed upon trade rules. It has also resolved long-standing bilateral irritants and liberalized rules in several areas, including agriculture, services, energy, financial services, investment, and government procurement. Since the implementation of NAFTA in 1994, total two-way merchandise trade between the U.S. and Canada has grown by more than 265%, creating many new challenges for the bilateral relationship.
Canada is an urban services-dependent economy with a large manufacturing base. Since Canada is the largest export market for most states, the U.S.-Canada border is extremely important to the well-being and livelihood of millions of Americans.

rru2s

This thread can be broken down to better separate the issues with how/where/from whom we purchase audio equipment:
(1) Use of internet versus use of brick and mortar stores -- at this point, it's part of the global economy and arguing won't make time go backwards. In the long run it saves on brick and mortar but also reduces local support for repairs, listening rooms, and salesforce jobs.
(2) Purchase from companies who are advertising original equipment with a warranty when the equipment is actually out-of-box and without warranty. This is illegal, and both the sellers and buyers are forewarned there may be unpleasant consequences.
(3) Purchase from companies who are not authorized dealers when the manufacturer's warranty is void under such circumstances. same answer as number 2, above.

Frankly, not having a good listening room for speakers is somewhat of a dilemma, so there is some need for brick and mortar, otherwise only those who happen to have friends who own the same equipment can do a good comparison before purchase. Otherwise, you might have to buy and return from a company with a good return policy.

As far as internet shopping, audio equipment is no different than anything else. Over the last 10 years, I have gone from 90% brick and mortar purchases to 10% brick and mortar purchases of anything and everything other than food and clothes. I have probably saved myself 20 to 25 percent of the cumulative total purchase costs over that timeframe, maybe as much as $24,000 = 20 percent of $120,000. That's money which improves my standard of living and increases my disposable income to enable further boosting the economy by making even more purchases with the money I've saved.

snow

I think this says it all (Canada is an urban services-dependent economy with a large manufacturing base) Canada has few people in relation to what it manufactures and exports,, we currently import almost everything, is the picture starting of whats wrong becoming clearer? We used to be, we also used to be able to support a family with a single income, one person working one job, he seems to think that we can become a services based exporter and continue to import everything and all will be well :rolleyes:

I remember when microwaves and vcr's cost 1k or more not everyone could afford both or even one they were luxury items, somehow we managed, perhaps just perhaps we could do without all the cheap crap for a little bit start producing things again and buying them to stimulate the economy?

Of course the goverment would have to tighten the import flow down a lot for it to even begin to work.



REGARDS SNOW

munk

Technokid; Nice post. You forgot to mention Pot being exported to the US from BC.

Natural resources are not a manufacturing base. I didn't realize you were our number one trading partner though; I thought that was China. Maybe to be called 'partner' the trade has to go both ways.

Sugar? That's ironic. Montana can't grow sugar beets any longer because they can't compete with the subsidized Hawiian sugar. Used to be big business here. Canada must have a exception. I'm not one to bash Canada, but I stopped going over the border after being treated as the ugly american too many times.

When I first aquired my Ramcharger 4x4, I looked up the vin number to see where it was made: Canada or Mexico. It was from Mexico.

munk

to also get back to topic; I live so far out in the boonies that I must shop internet. There's a 10 mile dirt road just to get to our little town of 70 people, and any walmart is well over a hundred miles from here. Look up "Little Rocky Mountains" in Montana.

I worry the bad roads will shake any electronics loose, but so far it's been OK.



Spearit Sound double boxed the NAD 545 CD changer they sent.

snow

rubin wrote: »

A service based economy is a consumer nation.A country that doesen't produce for either export or trade is doomed.Industry is the backbone.

Agreed.

Amherst wrote: »

To summarize: The general collective on this thread seems to think that a country must produce something to sustain.
Coke and friends believe a service based economic agenda will work instead.


Well it has been about thirty or more years this country has pushed the service economy, and all I see out of it so far is CEO,s walking away with wheelbarrows full of money and the average Joe with declining income. Ma and Pa shops of every kind eliminated so the top brass can stuff their pockets.

Is this really the BS schools are teaching or kids?

Disparity between the social classes is at an historical high. How did it get there?

Doesn't take a genius and enough time has passed to consider the service based economy a failed agenda designed to benefit the well to do. End.

Agreed.

rubin wrote: »

We need health care,police, firemen,teachers etc.All this drains the gov't. Private (non government) workers pay income tax to help. The government is paying out more than is coming in. A service based workforce that is larger than the commodities workforce has done its damage.

Agreed.

munk wrote: »

Technokid; Nice post.

Agreed great post.



REGARDS SNOW