Behold the future of high end audio retail

shack

jaxwired wrote: »

The point of my post is that the future of high end audio is internet sales and the manufacturers that figure it out will survive. The others will be hurting. And people don't want to pay 50% markup for internet sales and they shouldn't have to.

The courts have held over and over that a manufacturer has the right to negotiate and set a minimum retail price with those resellers that purchase the product from them. The Mfg. has the right to NOT sell to those that violate that contractual agreement. They also have the right to not honor any warranty when the item is not sold through an authorized reseller. To assume that just because a mfg does not discount that they will not survive is very short sighted. There are many examples of products that demand full retail regardless of the price (and the profit generated). Those are products where the consumer recognizes the worth of the product and is willing to pay the price. Not everyone shops at Wal-Mart or deepdiscount.com. If consumers don't want to pay the markup via the internet...they don't have to...they can simply find another product to buy. Consumers have the right to decide what they buy...not what it is sold for. If their actions prompt a change by the mfg...then so be it. If not...quit bitching and pay the price if you want the product or move on.

cokewithvanilla

swb502 wrote: »

Ok, Coke with vanilla, what happens once the wealth is transferred from say the US to China? You think China or any other foreign country is going to give a rats behind about you? No its not. And no one is just a consumer, were all a joint consumer producer. And guess what? Someone in some far away land will do what you do cheaper then you. Suddenly you’re the overpaid American without a job who’s going to expect the rest of the American system to prop you up.

Keep in mind without floating currency all that **** you get a ‘good deal’ isn’t such a good deal. There isn’t a far market between imports in the US. The RMB has been undervalued for years so that wealth gets transferred out of the US.

But by all means, its your right to do whatever you want. Just at some point were all going to have to pay the piper.

Oh, alright, you win. I will buy the worst quality goods that I can simply because they are American. I will keep buying them, because somehow that is doing good. Meanwhile, the country gets lazier and lazier and keeps producing poor goods, and then China is far ahead of us anyway. Keep in mind, if we keep buying crap, they'll keep making crap.

I'll buy american, if it's better. Perhaps if we stopped the stupid "buy american, even if it's crap" thing, we would start producing stuff that isn't crap and then China might buy from us. We can't settle for crap simply cause we make crap... we need to stop making crap --- and the only way that's gonna happen is if people stop buying american...

and this is way off topic.

cstmar01 wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with paying higher prices in a store as well money needs....

The argument that B+M are not needed is getting annoying. Sorry but if a product is going to cost me 50 bucks more to know that I bought it from someone with a face that I know they have been in service for 50 years and always had great advice or wanted to see me in a store I will gladly pay that. One line, hell your just a # of a sale to them and they could be there tomorrow or gone, so then you move to the next.

What if it's 500? 1000? at what point do you realize that you are no longer paying for "service"?

Besides, that guy who owns the speaker shop could very well go out of business, then do you think hes gonna service your item? If the manufacturer cuts this guy out, they can afford to stay in business and service their products for years.

shack wrote: »

Consumers have the right to decide what they buy...not what it is sold for. If their actions prompt a change by the mfg...then so be it. If not...quit bitching and pay the price if you want the product or move on.

Exactly. The market will determine whether or not the retail shops stay in business. Shops by me have closed down recently...

I haven't seen anyone **** about the price of anything in this thread.

cstmar01

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Oh, alright, you win. I will buy the worst quality goods that I can simply because they are American. I will keep buying them, because somehow that is doing good. Meanwhile, the country gets lazier and lazier and keeps producing poor goods, and then China is far ahead of us anyway. Keep in mind, if we keep buying crap, they'll keep making crap.

I'll buy american, if it's better. Perhaps if we stopped the stupid "buy american, even if it's crap" thing, we would start producing stuff that isn't crap and then China might buy from us. We can't settle for crap simply cause we make crap... we need to stop making crap --- and the only way that's gonna happen is if people stop buying american...

and this is way off topic.



What if it's 500? 1000? at what point do you realize that you are no longer paying for "service"?

Besides, that guy who owns the speaker shop could very well go out of business, then do you think hes gonna service your item? If the manufacturer cuts this guy out, they can afford to stay in business and service their products for years.

hahahahahhaha


thats funny. yeah things have a mark up, how the hell do you think people make a living. Its called the cost to produce and have someone sell the item. EVERYTHING has a markup. If you really want your great internet shopping please go visit some great audio dealers on the internet. MSS Hi Fi gives great prices, and you know what? you might get something with a several # ripped off, but seeing you want your "value product" then that's what you get. Always trying to go lower then the next but you the consumer don't give a crap, its cheap, I'll throw it away in 2 years if I don't want it. Have fun getting a manf. to give you a warranty claim on that, and have fun returning it to them, but thats what you want, cheap.

Service? whats so hard to understand about that? knowing that I have a place to go with someone to acutally take care of me and know what I'm looking for and give me a call when they know I want something and be the last stop I have to go to.

You sit there and bitched in a thread that samsung cust service suck, Ok mr I want everything to be internet driven have fun with that, because thats all your going to have. Sorry I would rather take an item that failed after the warranty to my local hi fi shop so that they can try and fix it, and if they can't and are decent towards me help me out in buying something else. But see you wouldn't know things like that would happen seeing your too busy shopping for the next latest and greatest deal out there because there is some magical land that everything will be given to people for nothing because there is no use in the world of hi fi for knowledge, or people who can give a recommendation about a product, or SEEING SOMETHING BEFORE YOU BUY IT.

and you really think a manufacturer like the bigger names gives a flying crap about your product you bought 3 years ago and doesn't work. OK, what dream world do you live in? Seriously? They can go and outsell any of the little ones and outsource for cheap, doesn't mean they have a better product but because they can undersell everyone else and is "a great value" people will buy from them.

shack

cokewithvanilla wrote:

I haven't seen anyone **** about the price of anything in this thread.

jaxwired wrote:

The days of fixed prices and 50% retail markup for high end audio products are numbered. There's no reason to pay those markups anymore given the lack of retailers. The manufacturers need to get a clue and just open things up to the internet and free market.

TECHNOKID wrote:

MSRPs are inflated pricing to give consumers the impression of getting a deal paying less than the inflated MSRP pricing. IE: I never ever paid near MSRP for any Polk speakers or even any audio gear for that matter... I'm not that stupid!

Call it what you will....

cokewithvanilla

cstmar01 wrote: »

hahahahahhaha


thats funny. yeah things have a mark up, how the hell do you think people make a living. Its called the cost to produce and have someone sell the item. EVERYTHING has a markup. If you really want your great internet shopping please go visit some great audio dealers on the internet. MSS Hi Fi gives great prices, and you know what? you might get something with a several # ripped off, but seeing you want your "value product" then that's what you get. Always trying to go lower then the next but you the consumer don't give a crap, its cheap, I'll throw it away in 2 years if I don't want it. Have fun getting a manf. to give you a warranty claim on that, and have fun returning it to them, but thats what you want, cheap.

alala sure everything has markup, I know. I was suggesting that there CAN BE less if there aren't retailers.

cstmar01 wrote: »

Service? whats so hard to understand about that? knowing that I have a place to go with someone to acutally take care of me and know what I'm looking for and give me a call when they know I want something and be the last stop I have to go to.

well, when your local hifi store goes out of business, then what? you laughed at the possibility... like hifi stores simply can't go out... I've seen a few go in my area.. I wonder if the owner still services the product. I'd rather take my products to the manufacturer.

cstmar01 wrote: »

You sit there and bitched in a thread that samsung cust service suck, Ok mr I want everything to be internet driven have fun with that, because thats all your going to have. Sorry I would rather take an item that failed after the warranty to my local hi fi shop so that they can try and fix it, and if they can't and are decent towards me help me out in buying something else. But see you wouldn't know things like that would happen seeing your too busy shopping for the next latest and greatest deal out there because there is some magical land that everything will be given to people for nothing because there is no use in the world of hi fi for knowledge, or people who can give a recommendation about a product, or SEEING SOMETHING BEFORE YOU BUY IT.

yep, samsung sucks... so, you know what? I won't buy from them again. Oh and do you think the RETAILER that I bought it from helped me? Of course not. After that phone died, I just bought another... but you know what? I am sending that phone to them every week to cost them every dollar I can until the things warranty is up. Does that help me? no... but whatever.

Oh ok, if they can't fix it they will "help you buy something else" (sounds like they are really doing you a favor)... if you need the input from salesmen, who many times don't know crap about anything, who only sells one or two lines and are pushed to sell it, then... I don't know what to say... good for you.

cstmar01 wrote: »

and you really think a manufacturer like the bigger names gives a flying crap about your product you bought 3 years ago and doesn't work. OK, what dream world do you live in? Seriously? They can go and outsell any of the little ones and outsource for cheap, doesn't mean they have a better product but because they can undersell everyone else and is "a great value" people will buy from them.

Uh... what are you talking about??? What "big company" did I mention? I did say that you could get service from the MANUFACTURER... like... well ... like I do with POLK.

I believe I mentioned it somewhere, but if I haven't ... there are obviously two distinct markets here (for those that want the same quality for cheap, and those who will pay extra for the "service")... only time will tell which survives, or if both survive. I'm betting they both will.

edit: it seems like you perceive retailers as a bunch of real nice, honest people that are simply out to help you... In my experience, this is not true. Retailers, IMHO, are there to sell you what they have in stock.

LuSh

Jaxwired:

It's funny. Bryston, Dynaudio and NAD would be out of business if they didn't have the dealer network you claim isn't needed or required. Sure if they went online they'd generate more the first couple of months. Until dealers started to drop the lines and Bryston went full 'Emotiva' on everybody. Everybody would simply look at spec's and buy on numbers. I see it over at AVSforum all the time...

Dealers are there to explain product and corporate ideas and motives. HiFi is a cottage industry at best, without dealers the vendors message is lost in a sea of computer screen font. I guess it sucks for Jax and others who don't have dealers in their area, I however do have many dealers...

cokewithvanilla

LuSh wrote: »

Jaxwired:

It's funny. Bryston, Dynaudio and NAD would be out of business if they didn't have the dealer network you claim isn't needed or required. Sure if they went online they'd generate more the first couple of months. Until dealers started to drop the lines and Bryston went full 'Emotiva' on everybody. Everybody would simply look at spec's and buy on numbers. I see it over at AVSforum all the time...

Dealers are there to explain product and corporate ideas and motives. HiFi is a cottage industry at best, without dealers the vendors message is lost in a sea of computer screen font. I guess it sucks for Jax and others who don't have dealers in their area, I however do have many dealers...

Sure, dealers might have helped companies stay in business and for this reason the dealers might continue to do business.

My biggest problem with dealers is that they normally sell products from a few manufacturers. While this retail outlet can "explain the product, corporate ideas and motives", it is likely to be highly one-sided, and not very informative. Every dealer I've been to has trash talked my gear, and explained how their product is the best out there.

Sure, it helps to listen to the gear... however, these shops are few and far between.. you are not likely to get a full perspective of what is out there if you don't drive hundreds of miles. You're basically gonna decide between 5-10 brands if you go retail.

The idea of being able to demo online products in your home with a 30 day return policy is excellent. This allows you to pick from any brand and hear it when it is going to be used... the downside is shipping, and how many are you likely to buy with all those shipping costs? However, the money you save offsets these shipping costs... so who knows

edit: oh, and what does a "corporate motive" have to do with how good the gear is? Generally, companies strive to make a decent product so they can stay in business, but that doesn't mean anything.

LuSh

Coke:

What dealer has the kinda coin to buy, floor and stock 10 different high end audio lines? This is a business. What kind of dealer can sell 10 different lines of audio? How many watch shops carry Rolex, Patek, Breitling, Omega and Tag all at the same time? This isn't the flat panel business my friend. We're talking SMALL turn over here. I've never met a Bryston dealer who didn't know much about Bryston. They know exactly the strengths of Bryston. Same can be said for NAD.

Of course they're going to only carry 2-3 lines...believe me brother they'd love to be able to carry 20 lines and sell them all but they can't. A good dealer would compliment you on your setup and maybe offer a different take or way to improve your system, some people take this as a personal insult. I don't think people have really taken a moment to think of how business or retail works. In fact some of the things said in this thread has convinced me that perspectives are really off, I suspect if you tried to open your own business you'd have a very different view.

cokewithvanilla

LuSh wrote: »

Coke:

What dealer has the kinda coin to buy, floor and stock 10 different high end audio lines? This is a business. What kind of dealer can sell 10 different lines of audio? How many watch shops carry Rolex, Patek, Breitling, Omega and Tag all at the same time? This isn't the flat panel business my friend. We're talking SMALL turn over here. I've never met a Bryston dealer who didn't know much about Bryston. They know exactly the strengths of Bryston. Same can be said for NAD.

Of course they're going to only carry 2-3 lines...believe me brother they'd love to be able to carry 20 lines and sell them all but they can't. A good dealer would compliment you on your setup and maybe offer a different take or way to improve your system, some people take this as a personal insult. I don't think people have really taken a moment to think of how business or retail works. In fact some of the things said in this thread has convinced me that perspectives are really off, I suspect if you tried to open your own business you'd have a very different view.

My point exactly. That, to me, is an inherent flaw in retailers. I didn't say they should stock more, I said they don't.

Sure, my perspectives would be different... I would have to push the stuff whether it is good or not, else not be able to pay the rent....

edit: i guess it depends on the retail shop. If the shop employs staff members, then they might not know about them. Shops like this include all the big box stores and the late tweeter.

cstmar01

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

alala sure everything has markup, I know. I was suggesting that there CAN BE less if there aren't retailers.


well, when your local hifi store goes out of business, then what? you laughed at the possibility... like hifi stores simply can't go out... I've seen a few go in my area.. I wonder if the owner still services the product. I'd rather take my products to the manufacturer.


yep, samsung sucks... so, you know what? I won't buy from them again. Oh and do you think the RETAILER that I bought it from helped me? Of course not. After that phone died, I just bought another... but you know what? I am sending that phone to them every week to cost them every dollar I can until the things warranty is up. Does that help me? no... but whatever.

Oh ok, if they can't fix it they will "help you buy something else" (sounds like they are really doing you a favor)... if you need the input from salesmen, who many times don't know crap about anything, who only sells one or two lines and are pushed to sell it, then... I don't know what to say... good for you.



Uh... what are you talking about??? What "big company" did I mention? I did say that you could get service from the MANUFACTURER... like... well ... like I do with POLK.

I believe I mentioned it somewhere, but if I haven't ... there are obviously two distinct markets here (for those that want the same quality for cheap, and those who will pay extra for the "service")... only time will tell which survives, or if both survive. I'm betting they both will.

edit: it seems like you perceive retailers as a bunch of real nice, honest people that are simply out to help you... In my experience, this is not true. Retailers, IMHO, are there to sell you what they have in stock.

your lack of maturity with this is overwhelming. I fail to see how sending the phone back to them constantly will change anything, but like you said whatever.

wrong...sorry but a lot of dealers I've been do know their products very well. They can also tell you more about the product, set up, other things that will go well in the system, ect better than anyone else.

One of the best dealers I just stopped in at one time had a workstation set up right in front of the shop so that you could watch the people working on the gear. When I was there they had an older Rega TT that had a problem with it and because it was out of warranty they offered to give a guy a new one at about cost or close to if he wanted. Sorry your not going to get that kind of service from an internet dealer, I don't care who you talk to your not.

why did I say big dealers? well for one, what small company can survive against the large ones? In your world they will have to have low cost because they would have to compete in an internet driven market fueled by low costs.You think a small company who normally depends on a dealer to sell their products is really going to make it when they have to turn to the internet and because their product cost maybe 300 more someone is going to buy it?

You want things for so cheap only the big can make it because they can make and market things easier because they have the capital and resources, small companies even though they may have a better product will get pushed to the wayside and go out of business because they can't keep up. Your normal response is "well if their good people will buy it". Well if no one can see product B from big manf. vs product C and see the attention to detail and how careful they made product C why would anyone pay more for it?

have fun with your internet driven wally world. because that is really what your shooting for and its sad.

cokewithvanilla

cstmar01 wrote: »

your lack of maturity with this is overwhelming. I fail to see how sending the phone back to them constantly will change anything, but like you said whatever.

uh, hopefully it will result in a fixed phone.... or it will prove to someone higher up that they have a problem in that department... don'tcha think someone monitors things that have been inthe shop 7 times??

also, considering i bought a product with a warranty, they are obligated to fulfill that warranty. So, how am I being immature by letting them handle it the only way that they will?

cstmar01 wrote: »

wrong...sorry but a lot of dealers I've been do know their products very well. They can also tell you more about the product, set up, other things that will go well in the system, ect better than anyone else.

One of the best dealers I just stopped in at one time had a workstation set up right in front of the shop so that you could watch the people working on the gear. When I was there they had an older Rega TT that had a problem with it and because it was out of warranty they offered to give a guy a new one at about cost or close to if he wanted. Sorry your not going to get that kind of service from an internet dealer, I don't care who you talk to your not.

thats very good. I am happy for you.

cstmar01 wrote: »

why did I say big dealers? well for one, what small company can survive against the large ones? In your world they will have to have low cost because they would have to compete in an internet driven market fueled by low costs.You think a small company who normally depends on a dealer to sell their products is really going to make it when they have to turn to the internet and because their product cost maybe 300 more someone is going to buy it?

You want things for so cheap only the big can make it because they can make and market things easier because they have the capital and resources, small companies even though they may have a better product will get pushed to the wayside and go out of business because they can't keep up. Your normal response is "well if their good people will buy it". Well if no one can see product B from big manf. vs product C and see the attention to detail and how careful they made product C why would anyone pay more for it?

have fun with your internet driven wally world. because that is really what your shooting for and its sad.

alright, I never said that the internet world is the best for EVERYONE. I said I think, because of past experience, I like it better.

We are not talking fantasy worlds here, hopefully the good dealers will go out and the bad ones will stay. That's all good. I said there are two markets here. The fact that you are completely defending retailers proves it. I don't really care one way or the other.. I'll do business my way, you do it yours. I think there is a future in internet retailers, I didn't say that the future included no brick and mortar retailers.

You need to realize that "cheap" is one market, while there is an entire different market that will keep these small businesses in business.

VR3

Doesnt home audio have a M.A.P policy like musical gear?

Minimum advertised price. Online, B&M, whatever - you HAVE to advertise at a certain price and not below it or you are stripped of your dealership.

For instance my store is priced the same as musician friend, sam ash, guitar center, blah blah blah blah --- and we make very decent money.

I never understood why alot of B&M stores for home audio charge list...

organ

Am I the only one that ask shop owners for a good deal?
When I walk into my dealer and see something I want, I ask him what's the best price he can give (even though it might be marked $1200, for example). And a lot of time, they don't mind taking a few hundred dollars off.
When you see prices on equipments in the shops, it doesn't mean that's what you have to pay. Talk them down a bit.

The thing I like most about going to the store is that once you get to know the dealer and you're a good customer, you don't even have to ask them for a discount, they'll automatically give it to you.

cokewithvanilla

organ wrote: »

Am I the only one that ask shop owners for a good deal?
When I walk into my dealer and see something I want, I ask him what's the best price he can give (even though it might be marked $1200, for example). And a lot of time, they don't mind taking a few hundred dollars off.
When you see prices on equipments in the shops, it doesn't mean that's what you have to pay. Talk them down a bit.

The thing I like most about going to the store is that once you get to know the dealer and you're a good customer, you don't even have to ask them for a discount, they'll automatically give it to you.

I've never liked haggling or asking for a discount. I've been so used to "the price is the price" (you're not gonna see anyone haggling at wal-mart). I would feel cheap and stupid to ask for a lower price.... but that's just me.

I sell a lot of things used, so I deal with haggling all the time, especially since I moved to Tennessee. Someone will say "I am interesting in buying it", come to your house, talk to you for 30 minutes and then say "how about your price minus **** dollars", you say, "no, I think not", then they say, "well, you see, all I brought with me is your price minus xx dollars". I've come to dislike that game so much that I couldn't picture myself doing that. If I can't afford the asking price, I won't attempt to buy it.

organ

Wal-Mart????? I thought this thread was for "high end audio retailers"????

It's not difficult to say "i'm interested in that unit, are you able to give a better deal?" That is NOT being cheap. It happens all the time in high end stores. They expect this.

cokewithvanilla

organ wrote: »

Wal-Mart????? I thought this thread was for "high end audio retailers"????

It's not difficult to say "i'm interested in that unit, are you able to give a better deal?" That is NOT being cheap. It happens all the time in high end stores. They expect this.

What i meant when I said "wal-mart" was, in my whole life when I go to stores and buy things, the price has always been the price. When you go to the grocery store (as my example was), would you haggle? would it even come to mind? So why should it at an audio shop?

I am not saying I am right in my perspective, I am saying that that is my perspective. I just feel immensely wrong for even asking.

You are probably correct in saying that that is the norm. I just feel wrong doing it.

organ

NO, I"m not going to haggle in a Wal-Mart of grocery store.
Why do people haggle on high end audio? Because the consumer and dealer knows that there are huge mark ups on the equipments.

I once worked in the home theatre department for Future Shop (sales) which is the Circuit City of Canada. During my training, I was told that we can give better deals on just about everything except for stuff on sale, cables or open box. So the prices you see are not set in stone. It's not a high end shop but just giving an example.
You also have to look at it from their point of view. They know that when they give a customer a good deal, that customer will be happy. When they're happy with the shop, they're more likely to return. It's business.

Let's say you walk into an audio shop to purchase an amp. YOu see the sticker that says $1500 right on the unit. The salesguy is busy with another customer who's buying the exact same thing, and you hear the customer ask the sales guy about a better deal and the sales guy says "How's $1250". The customer buys the amp at $1250 and is walking out happy because he got a good deal. The store is happy because even though they lowered the price, they still made a good profit.

Now that the sales guy is ready for the next customer (you). YOu already know the guy before you got it for $1250. Are you going to pay the $1500 or ask for a better deal like the previous customer?

Like I said earlier, they expect this and they're not going to think you're cheap. With audio gear, we're dealing with high $$$ compared to grocery shopping.

cokewithvanilla

organ wrote: »

NO, I"m not going to haggle in a Wal-Mart of grocery store.

again, just an example. and I didn't say that you would

organ wrote: »

Why do people haggle on high end audio? Because the consumer and dealer knows that there are huge mark ups on the equipments.

I once worked in the home theatre department for Future Shop (sales) which is the Circuit City of Canada. During my training, I was told that we can give better deals on just about everything except for stuff on sale, cables or open box. So the prices you see are not set in stone. It's not a high end shop but just giving an example.
You also have to look at it from their point of view. They know that when they give a customer a good deal, that customer will be happy. When they're happy with the shop, they're more likely to return. It's business.

Let's say you walk into an audio shop to purchase an amp. YOu see the sticker that says $1500 right on the unit. The salesguy is busy with another customer who's buying the exact same thing, and you hear the customer ask the sales guy about a better deal and the sales guy says "How's $1250". The customer buys the amp at $1250 and is walking out happy because he got a good deal. The store is happy because even though they lowered the price, they still made a good profit.

Now that the sales guy is ready for the next customer (you). YOu already know the guy before you got it for $1250. Are you going to pay the $1500 or ask for a better deal like the previous customer?

Like I said earlier, they expect this and they're not going to think you're cheap. With audio gear, we're dealing with high $$$ compared to grocery shopping.

I guess I get what you are saying. It's funny though, i've simply never operated that way. Someone was talking to me the other day and said they went into best buy and told the sales guy that they wanted this., this or this and would buy it if given a real good deal... I guess I was unaware that you could do this. I've always been of the mind that eventually someone would say "this isn't a garage sale". I guess my family has never been the type to haggle, so I've never really seen it done except to me (which I didn't appreciate lol)

Where is the line drawn at which places you can do it?

organ

See, It's all good man. Don't feel bad asking for a better deal.
I don't really know where people draw the line because I do this with expensive audio gear purchases only. Maybe other members can chime in. But i'd say, if you plan to purchase anything over $500, you will get a better deal if you ask. That's a lot of money. You're right, it's done on cars, furniture, etc.

I know where you're coming from. I was like that too in the beginnning. I used to always take friends with me to the audio stores and they laughed at me because I didn't want to ask for a better deal. So the next time we went, I did it and instead of feeling bad like I thought I would, I felt great because of the amount of $ I saved. The dealer was more than happy to lower the price.

One time I went to buy a POlk center speaker. First time into the store. I think it was marked $450. That was full retail according to Polks website. I told him what I wanted, he walked to the back to get it. He placed the speaker on the counter and says.... "alright, list price is $499. I'll charge you $350 plus tax". I didn't ask for a deal on this but, wow, I was impressed. I continued going there until they pretty much gave up on 2ch.

Try it next time. YOu'll feel great. You can buy a lot of cd's to enjoy on your new gear with the money you saved.

organ

My bad... I meant $499 not $450.

cokewithvanilla

organ wrote: »

Try it next time. YOu'll feel great. You can buy a lot of cd's to enjoy on your new gear with the money you saved.

Hah. It might be a while. I am in college, I think it's gonna be DIY or used for the meantime

organ

Cool:cool: I go used 90% of the time.
College years are always fun. Enjoy it man:)

jaxwired

LuSh wrote: »

Jaxwired:
It's funny. Bryston, Dynaudio and NAD would be out of business if they didn't have the dealer network you claim isn't needed or required.

You don't know this and neither do I. Without a crystal ball, we can't know.

I strongly believe that companies that embrace internet sales will emerge stronger in the end. The ones that cling desparately to the outdated and dying market strategy of B&M dealers will be gone.

Businesses need to adapt as their market changes. They have to adopt new strategies and new policies as market shifts occur. Who would argue that their has not been a giant market shift in 2 channel audio over the last 20 years? Clearly the market has changed dramatically, yet most continue to do business as usual.

There have been plenty of products that have embraced the internet and continue to thrive. The one huge advantage for the manufacturers would be that the internet allows them to reach their geographically diverse customers much more easily and cheaply than a B&M dealer network.

Every piece of my system was purchased from different authorized dealers using email and the internet. All of it was purchased well below retail except the Benchmark which is already discounted since they are a factory direct seller. But doing this took leg work and determination that many people would be unwilling to do. The manufacturers need to tap that market to survive and flourish.

LuSh

Seeing how many dealers carry NAD and Bryston in just my area alone, and seeing just how much of their equipment is sold within my area alone I don't need a crystal ball. If Bryston didn't have a dealer network they become Emotiva. Without dealers in place you now have to pay to have your brand recognized in a sea of one off brands.

Jaxwired, if what you're saying is correct then not only would more internet based companies be taken more seriously, they'd be flourishing over and above the brick and mortar companies. I don't see this happening. Totem acoustic, Paradigm and Def Tech aren't looking to become the next Swan speaker, quite the reverse. NAD isn't looking to become Emotiva, it's the reverse. Internet based companies have very little resources to get their message and brand out there in the trenches. You go NET sales and you're completely isolated from the mainstream. And even the main stream in mid to high end audio is a niche market at best. Small based companies don't have the resources to promote their product without dealers.

skipf

organ wrote: »

Wal-Mart????? I thought this thread was for "high end audio retailers"????

It's not difficult to say "i'm interested in that unit, are you able to give a better deal?" That is NOT being cheap. It happens all the time in high end stores. They expect this.

Hey, Wal-mart has it's place. I wanted another Belkin PF-60 power center, and went to the Belkin site where they sell it direct for around $600. I checked their authorized dealer list as I wanted to be sure I got a valid warranty and equipment protection plan. Guess what? Wal-mart was an authorized dealer. I paid $230 to Wally World and got the full warranty. I liked saving $370 on the MSRP.

tonyr1

mdaudioguy wrote: »

What's this thread about?

I forget

kevhed72

tonyr1 wrote: »

I forget

Something about brick and mortar stores...which reminds me, I had I venture into a Brandsmart the other day to use a gift card....what a zoo. You would think by the size of the place they would need to move volume by lower prices...no way. The plasmas I have been researching were all 300 to 400 more than the best price I found on the internet, including shipping.

cokewithvanilla

LuSh wrote: »

Internet based companies have very little resources to get their message and brand out there in the trenches. You go NET sales and you're completely isolated from the mainstream.

Why do internet based companies have little resources? Maybe cause they are new? However, a company like NAD could switch to internet based and have tons of resources.

I don't know if you're second statement is true either, I wonder how many sales are generated online per day.

You have to consider that obviously NAD, that was established in 1972, is much more recognizable for quality, ect, than Emotiva that established themselves in the last few years. That has nothing to do with internet retail versus retail stores. Also, generally, older people have the resources to purchase things, and cling to retail and old names like NAD. However, as these older people get too old for audio (it might be possible ) or keel over and die, and the younger, internet generation of people grow up...who knows what will happen to the market.

kevhed72 wrote: »

You would think by the size of the place they would need to move volume by lower prices...no way. The plasmas I have been researching were all 300 to 400 more than the best price I found on the internet, including shipping.

you have to consider that not everyone is out for lower prices. Some people crave convenience, being able to see the product before buying, the security of knowing the place they bought it from is right down the street, and even, could possibly like "being sold"

nedh84

I'm interested in good deals, not politics and products made in the USA. Although USA products are welcome.

frodaddy

If you want a good deal on speakers then DIY and build your own.