Behold the future of high end audio retail

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Ok, so just to keep people in jobs, we need to have useless positions and pay more for goods? Why don't we then just add a few more levels in the chain and charge $1000 more? oh, wait, because of this thing called ECONOMICS!

If the retail outlets are necessary in the economy, they will stay because people will buy from them. If they aren't economically feasible, they will go.

And about american workers... if a lazy **** american worker builds a POS car for $20,000, and a hard working chinese guy builds a better car for $15,000, which one should I buy? Don't I have the right as a consumer to purchase the better quality vehicle?

I'm sick of all this American BS... if america wants business, america needs to make better products. I refuse to buy a piece of crap just because crack smoking john american built it.

This is a world economy now, face it.

edit: oh, and I am not saying the chinese are hard working and americans are not... though I have seen my fair share of lazy, careless american workers.

Wow, well after reading this I think you need to move to china or somewhere else because im certain that everything you take for granted here will be available over there and your standard of living would increase dramatically.

I mean after all us lazy crack smoking americans obviously dont meet your standards.

How many chinese have a Hi Def TV, a PC, a automobile, cellphone, microwave, hospitals that will care for you in an emergency regardless of income or the ability to pay, the ability to go to college regardless of income?

The entire its all about me I want it now and im entitled but im not willing to pay extra for it mentality is the downfall of america.

You have to remember that what we all do today will affect our children later think about it.

REGARDS SNOW

snow

Someday when you get out of college and lose your job due to it being out sourced because of people who think just like you do and dont want to pay extra for an american made product or service you will say geez if only I had worked harder and laid down that crack pipe id still have a job :rolleyes:

REGARDS SNOW

cokewithvanilla

snow wrote: »

Wow, well after reading this I think you need to move to china or somewhere else because im certain that everything you take for granted here will be available over there and your standard of living would increase dramatically.

I mean after all us lazy crack smoking americans obviously dont meet your standards.

How many chinese have a Hi Def TV, a PC, a automobile, cellphone, microwave, hospitals that will care for you in an emergency regardless of income or the ability to pay, the ability to go to college regardless of income?

The entire its all about me I want it now and im entitled but im not willing to pay extra for it mentality is the downfall of america.

You have to remember that what we all do today will affect our children later think about it.

REGARDS SNOW

Why would I move to china? Did I say anything about their standard of living?

My entire point is that if america makes crap, no one should be expected to buy it.

In my opinion, the mentality that I should buy a piece of crap because it's made here is worse than outsourcing. If we made better products at competing prices, people would buy from us. There are just certain markets that we cannot compete in. Who makes your TV? or the ram in your computer? Should I attack you for being anti-american?

Why should America try to remain a manufacturing economy anyhow? Think we should get back into textiles? As that "standard of living" that you speak about increases compared to other nations, we simply cannot afford to do the menial tasks that can be done cheaper elsewhere. It would be foolish to try to make EVERYTHING here in america. If a T-shirt cost $70 because we had John American making it for $10.50 an hour (and then we had Joe American selling it to us for $10.50 an hour, and so on) , how much could the minimum wage worker afford to buy? This is why the world market is beneficial.

"the downfall of america" I love it, I am glad you are such a great economist. All our problems could be solved if everyone simply "pays extra", as you put it. Take that theory into everything you buy and see how much money you have left. Tell that to someone who makes minimum wage, then you'll say "oh, we just need to increase their wage" .... and the cycle begins.

snow wrote: »

Someday when you get out of college and lose your job due to it being out sourced because of people who think just like you do and dont want to pay extra for an american made product or service you will say geez if only I had worked harder and laid down that crack pipe id still have a job :rolleyes:

REGARDS SNOW

I see. Perhaps, then, I should see a degree in something that cannot be outsourced? Hm. Worth while don't ya think?

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Why would I move to china? Did I say anything about their standard of living?

My entire point is that if america makes crap, no one should be expected to buy it.

In my opinion, the mentality that I should buy a piece of crap because it's made here is worse than outsourcing. If we made better products, people would buy from us.

Why should America try to remain a manufacturing economy anyhow? Think we should get back into textiles? As that "standard of living" that you speak about increases compared to other nations, we simply cannot afford to do the menial tasks that can be done cheaper elsewhere. It would be foolish to try to make EVERYTHING here in america. If a T-shirt cost $70 because we had John American making it for $10.50 an hour (and then we had Joe American selling it to us for $10.50 an hour, and so on) , how much could the minimum wage worker afford to buy? This is why the world market is beneficial.




I see. Perhaps, then, I should see a degree in something that cannot be outsourced? Hm. Worth while don't ya think?

I think you should move to China because you dont appreciate what us americans have and "WHY" we have it. I truly believe that america would be a better place without you here is another very good reason for you to move on.

What makes you think that america makes crap products?

You speak of the minimum wage, well if more americans had jobs then the minimum wage would go up. Also if more things were made here there would be more jobs and more spending thereby increasing the wages of everyone.


It really doesnt matter what you get a degree in if no one can afford to pay for whatever it is because they no longer have a job.

No actually your probally right we lazy crack smoking americans shouldndt make anything because our products are clearly inferior and we should be totally dependent on the rest of the world for everything we use eat drink drive etc. We should also seek out in any way possible to save a dime by shopping online and at all the big box stores rather than our localy owned businesses thereby losing more american jobs and the reason why because I want to live like a king for less even though by doing so im cutting the throat of all around me, I also dont care if future generations to come have to live in a horrible recession because there arent any jobs, just call me the king of selfish :rolleyes:



REGARDS SNOW

cokewithvanilla

I think this conversation is futile. We disagree, sure. I am no economist.. but, you think you are.

America can make goods, but we should only make the goods that we can make better than other countries. What's the point of making things that cannot compete in the world market?

I didn't say america makes crap products. I said that if china makes a better product, I will buy it. if America makes a better product, I will buy it... is that so hard to understand?

Oh yeah, everyone will just lose their jobs and no one will have any money :rolleyes:. You think the better way is to force americans to buy american. I think the better way is to have americans do better, causing everyone to buy american. Get it? (also, we dont simply have to make goods... we are the largest exporter of SERVICES)

Getting everyone to buy american is a really unamerican idea, as we traditionally enjoy FREEDOM.

edit: I personally think its hilarious that you think I shouldn't be in america because I have different views than you... very ironic... considering, as I recall, that being one of the founding principles of this country.

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

I am no economist.. but, you think you are.

Obviously not and no I dont.

America can make goods, but we should only make the goods that we can make better than other countries. What's the point of making things that cannot compete in the world market?

What makes you think the thing made here arent as least as high quality and the reason for making things in america that cant compete in the world market for americans is it creates jobs for americans.

I didn't say america makes crap products. I said that if china makes a better product, I will buy it. if America makes a better product, I will buy it... is that so hard to understand?

Yes you did, No you didnt, yes it is.

Getting everyone to buy american is a really unamerican idea, as we traditionally enjoy FREEDOM.

That has to be the most asinine completley ridiculous statement I have ever hear or read in my entire life bar none. :eek:

edit: I personally think its hilarious that you think I shouldn't be in america because I have different views than you... very ironic... considering, as I recall, that being one of the founding principles of this country

No I think you should live elsewhere not because of your views but because of your selfishness and greed at the cost of others.

To see into the future all you need to do is look into the past.

REGARDS SNOW

F1nut

Snow, now you know why that person has been on my IL since they joined CP.

cokewithvanilla

snow wrote: »

Obviously not and no I dont.



What makes you think the thing made here arent as least as high quality and the reason for making things in america that cant compete in the world market for americans is it creates jobs for americans.

The trick is, at least as high quality, and at a COMPETITIVE PRICE

snow wrote: »

Yes you did, No you didnt, yes it is.

sorry that you think so.

snow wrote: »

That has to be the most asinine completley ridiculous statement I have ever hear or read in my entire life bar none. :eek:

Really, find me an american that thinks buying american is better than freedom of choice. (edit: that was a dumb statement, you can find an american that will say anything, let's just start a thread "Freedom of Choice" ... the poll will say "yes" or "No" ill start it now)

snow wrote: »

No I think you should live elsewhere not because of your views but because of your selfishness and greed at the cost of others.

amazing. you seem to not understand a world economy. America actually does benefit from buying Tv's from china.

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

The trick is, at least as high quality, and at a COMPETITIVE PRICE

Really, find me an american that thinks buying american is better than freedom of choice. (edit: that was a dumb statement, you can find an american that will say anything, let's just start a thread "Freedom of Choice" ... the poll will say "yes" or "No" ill start it now)

Hmmm.... Interesting earlier you said that you would buy american if the quality was better now it has to be as good and as cheap, which is it?

I agree with the that was a dumb statement in fact the only smart thing you have said in the entire thread IMHO



REGARDS SNOW

cokewithvanilla

snow wrote: »

Hmmm.... Interesting earlier you said that you would buy american if the quality was better now it has to be as good and as cheap, which is it?

I agree with the that was a dumb statement in fact the only smart thing you have said in the entire thread IMHO



REGARDS SNOW

Wow. Do you not realize what competitive price means? it doesn't mean cheap.... it means COMPETITIVE. meaning, if we have BETTER QUALITY we can command a higher price, equal quality, equal price, lower quality, lower price.

So, when I said something about a lower quality american car at a higher price versus a higher quality chinese one at a lower price, I was demonstrating both factors of quality and price... get it?

If we can make a high quality TV for 500, and china can make one for 200, we obviously shouldn't be making Tv's... right? However, if we build high quality aircraft for 100,000 and china builds similar for 200,000.... they benefit from buying from us, just as we benefit from buying their tvs...

I am saying two things: It isn't economically better to make EVERYTHING american. And it isn't wrong for consumers to shop around for the best item at the best price, regardless of country of origin.

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Wow. Do you not realize what competitive price means? it doesn't mean cheap.... it means COMPETITIVE. meaning, if we have BETTER QUALITY we can command a higher price, equal quality, equal price, lower quality, lower price.

So, when I said something about a lower quality american car at a higher price versus a higher quality chinese one at a lower price, I was demonstrating both factors of quality and price... get it?

If we can make a high quality TV for 500, and china can make one for 200, we obviously shouldn't be making Tv's... right?

As mentioned earler since you appear to be in love with products made anywhere but america you should move to one of those countries,

get it?

cokewithvanilla

snow wrote: »

As mentioned earler since you appear to be in love with products made anywhere but america you should move to one of those countries,

get it?

Read my edits. Where the hell did I say I was in love with products from elsewhere?


How is buying from the country who has the best product at the best price "loving products made anywhere but america"?

That means "I WILL BUY FROM ANYONE" I have no bias based on country of origin, I will buy the best product... am I getting through?

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Read my edits. Where the hell did I say I was in love with products from elsewhere?

Please, snow, humor me, tell me who makes the ram in your computer.

How is buying from the country who has the best product at the best price "loving products made anywhere but america"?

That means "I WILL BUY FROM ANYONE" I have no bias based on country of origin, I will buy the best product... am I getting through?

Why would I want to read your edits? They make even less sense than the original selfish its all about me babblings

[That means "I WILL BUY FROM ANYONE" I have no bias based on country of origin, I will buy the best product... am I getting through

That statement reminds me of a **** that would sell herself to the highest bidder :rolleyes: Am I getting through?

REGARDS SNOW

cokewithvanilla

snow wrote: »

Why would I want to read your edits? They make even less sense than the original selfish its all about me babblings

REGARDS SNOW

Wow. You think buying the best product at the best price is selfish? Are you insane?

Explain to me, why snow, why should everyone buy lower quality (competitively speaking and using price as a factor, yes, I have to spell it out for you or you intentionally misunderstand) stuff from their home country?

Explain how this concept fuels a world economy, also explain how this will allow progress. How will we continue to produce better goods if no one gives a **** about what they are buying, as long as it's from america?

Oh yeah, snow... we should start growing all our own rice and banana's... right? hell, buy american!
(or wait, this is a question for the class, can anyone tell me why this would not be a good idea?)

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Wow. You think buying the best product at the best price is selfish? Are you insane?

Explain to me, why snow, why should everyone buy lower quality (competitively speaking and using price as a factor, yes, I have to spell it out for you or you intentionally misunderstand) stuff from their home country?

Explain how this concept fuels a world economy, also explain how this will allow progress. How will we continue to produce better goods if no one gives a **** about what they are buying, as long as it's from america?

Oh yeah, snow... we should start growing all our own rice and banana's... right? hell, buy american!
(or wait, this is a question for the class, can anyone tell me why this would not be a good idea?)

How can I and why should I explain anything to you? If You dont understand anything but your own selfish sociopathic needs.



REGARDS SNOW

cokewithvanilla

snow wrote: »

How can I and why should I explain anything to you? If You dont understand anything but your own selfish sociopathic needs.



REGARDS SNOW

lol. great answer. I love how you're so full of criticism, but when it comes to showing that you have the slightest idea of what your talking about... you fall flat on your face.

Tell me, just once, why shouldn't we grow all our own bananas? or actually, if you could come up with a logical argument of why we should... I would love to hear it.

Thing is, your posts are full of emotion, but lack logic...

BlueFox

Not to get into this discussion, but neither side is correct. If it were a level playing field world-wide then maybe this discussion makes a little sense. However, China is basically a slave labor society that is government controlled, and while a few Chinese are moving into the middle class, the vast majority are in utter poverty. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an uprising over this disparity. Same with India.

And I have plenty of Chinese made Polk and PSB speakers, so even though I think China sucks, I too like to save a few bucks on good things.

Of course, this really does not have anything to do with ordering a product from an Internet retailer who sells at a lower price. They are just following the natural evolution of B&M stores that specialize in discounts.

cokewithvanilla

@bluefox you might be right, but I think simply because "the world isn't a level playing field" is why my argument makes sense.

If everyone were as good at one thing as everyone else, there would be no point in world trade. However, since there are differences, it makes sense to use them to everyones advantage.

Why do we buy diamonds from Africa? Because it would cost 10 times more to try to find diamonds in the U.S. (if we even could) ... they have a competitive advantage in the diamond industry... this is the same reason we get a lot of electronics from china. maybe snow just needs to google "Competitive Advantage"

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

@bluefox you might be right, but I think simply because "the world isn't a level playing field" is why my argument makes sense.

If everyone were as good at one thing as everyone else, there would be no point in world trade. However, since there are differences, it makes sense to use them to everyones advantage.

Why do we buy diamonds from Africa? Because it would cost 10 times more to try to find diamonds in the U.S. ... they have a competitive advantage in the diamond industry... maybe snow just needs to google "Competitive Advantage"

it makes sense to use them to my own selfish advantage advantage.

Fixed it for you:p


Maybe cokewithvanilla needs to google "selfish greedy sociopath"

REGARDS SNOW

cokewithvanilla

snow wrote: »

Fixed it for you:p


Maybe cokewithvanilla needs to google "selfish greedy sociopath"

REGARDS SNOW

Right. I can see this is going no where. You have no logic behind your statements and 'economics' is a foreign term to you.

You also blindly fight for "americanism" as if america is an unchanging idea that has to do with a manufacturing economy. I hope you recall that before that, we had an agricultural economy, though I don't hear you shouting to bring it back. I'm sure it was real sad when all the farmers lost their jobs to the industrial revolution, but that's PROGRESS.

edit: and you know what those farmers did? they picked up a new trade.. because they are Americans, americans adapt... that keeps us ahead (or used to, until people like you came along )

You might mean well by trying to keep work here in america, but by simply "buying american" you will cause the opposite. America might buy from america, but if no one else does, then we will ultimately suffer.

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Right. I can see this is going no where. You have no logic behind your statements and 'economics' is a foreign term to you.

You also blindly fight for "americanism" as if america is an unchanging idea that has to do with a manufacturing economy. I hope you recall that before that, we had an agricultural economy, though I don't hear you shouting to bring it back. I'm sure it was real sad when all the farmers lost their jobs to the industrial revolution, but that's PROGRESS.

edit: and you know what those farmers did? they picked up a new trade.. because they are Americans, americans adapt... that keeps us ahead (or used to, until people like you came along )

people like me will be around long after your gone



REGARDS SNOW

cokewithvanilla

snow wrote: »

people like me will be around long after your gone



REGARDS SNOW

You mean people who blindly make decisions based on emotion, instead of thinking it through and trying to apply some logical reasoning?

Well, then you got me there.

you're the guy who tries to help someone in a car accident and kills them because you have no idea what you're doing. You might mean well, but that never saved anyone.

snow

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

You mean people who blindly make decisions based on emotion, instead of thinking it through and trying to apply some logical reasoning?

Well, then you got me there.

you're the guy who tries to help someone in a car accident and kills them because you have no idea what you're doing. You might mean well, but that never saved anyone.

No I mean people who arent so selfish and greedy that they fall into the the sociopathic category. Im also dead certain that ive helped more people by accident then you ever will on purpose. You remind me of a fly, just buzzing around picking up and leaving diseased bits here and there more irrating than anything else

cokewithvanilla

snow wrote: »

You remind me of a fly, just buzzing around picking up and leaving diseased bits here and there more irrating than anything else

That's great, but I'm not gonna ride the insult train. What you think means very little to me. In the last two hours I don't think you've posted any logical reason why my statements were incorrect, stupid, or otherwise. You made a lot of statements saying things, but with no justification whatsoever.

It seems you lack the ability to propose an opposing argument, but you enjoy criticizing.

So, if you ever come up with a way "buy american" will save the american economy or why it is selfish to buy better quality products for less money, or even why it isn't smart to grow our own bananas... let me know. Hey, I'll even take a comment on the jobs lost to the industrial revolution.... anything that shows you got some sense in that head

no hard feelings, it's been fun. or I should just say, no worries, mate

TECHNOKID

Sad, shouldn,t this thread be closed already? If people can't be adult enough to agree to disagree I thing the discussion should stop right here. This thread seems to be as sensitive as cables or political threads so, shouldn't one be wise enough and stop posting

cokewithvanilla

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Sad, shouldn,t this thread be closed already? If people can't be adult enough to agree to disagree I thing the discussion should stop right here. This thread seems to be as sensitive as cables or political threads so, shouldn't one be wise enough and stop posting

Yeah, just did

(at least on the subject you were speaking of)

snow

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Sad, shouldn,t this thread be closed already? If people can't be adult enough to agree to disagree I thing the discussion should stop right here. This thread seems to be as sensitive as cables or political threads so, shouldn't one be wise enough and stop posting

Nah its great entertainment + I need to get my post count up.



REGARDS SNOW

TECHNOKID

snow wrote: »

Nah its great entertainment + I need to get my post count up.



REGARDS SNOW

ROTFLMAO Are you also worry that mole passes you

Norm Apter

BlueFox wrote: »

Not to get into this discussion, but neither side is correct. If it were a level playing field world-wide then maybe this discussion makes a little sense. However, China is basically a slave labor society that is government controlled, and while a few Chinese are moving into the middle class, the vast majority are in utter poverty. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an uprising over this disparity. Same with India.

Well, I don't have a dog in this fight but I have to take issue with some (though not all) of this statement. Since Deng Xiaoping implemented the Economic Reforms and opened China to the world in the early 1980s an estimated 400 million Chinese have been lifted out of poverty...undoubtedly the largest upward socioeconomic movement in human history (granted things were very rough from the Great Leap Forward through the end of the Cultural Revolution, but still thats nothing to sneeze at).

China probably has the largest growing middle class in the world. Yes, there is also a dramatically growing gap of wealth (just as there has been in the U.S. since 1979 or so) but that does not preclude the marked expansion of a middle class. Some people are staying poor (though I doubt many are getting poorer)...a growing number of others are leading a lifestyle that their parents couldn't have dreamed of a generation ago. What we're seeing is a massive migration (from countryside to city and township, from west to east)...some are faring much better than others but on the whole everybody is better off than they were 30 years ago. Some no doubt feel left behind and thats why, in part, we have been witnessing a large number of rural disturbances in the central and western part of China over the past decade. But so far there is nothing close to a coordinated structure or ideology to bind them together into a force that would threaten the foundations of the nation.

And though it might not be germane to this issue, just today the BBC announced that China has ousted Japan for the position of having the 2nd largest economy in the world (behind the U.S. of course). Pretty amazing when just in the early 1990s everybody was claiming that Japan was going to be the U.S.'s number #1 competitor in the 21st century.

Finally, I don't think its quite fair to categorize China as a slave-labor society. Yes, there are some very wretched working conditions in the factories but there is also a tremendous entreprenurial spirit in the country at large. Basically as long as you do not challenge the Chinese Communist Party-government you can do anything, and that involves capitalist...yes, capitalist...schemes. In short, Communist ideology is long dead (its final death blow was delt by the Tiananmen Massacre) . No one except for the octogenarian (or older) Party Members who were on the Long March with Mao in the 1930s believes in the tenets of Communism. With this ideology discredited, the Party has relied on 1) arousing nationalism and 2) encouraging material growth to keep everybody in line.

Having lived in a few different places in China, I tend to be overwhelmed by the commercialization of society. Its in your face...everywhere, all the time. Shoot, even Mao himself, once sacred cow of Marxist-Leninism has been commodified and objectified into fashion, clothing, pins, you name it.

headrott

cokewithvanilla wrote: »

Ok, so just to keep people in jobs, we need to have useless positions and pay more for goods? Why don't we then just add a few more levels in the chain and charge $1000 more? oh, wait, because of this thing called ECONOMICS!

If the retail outlets are necessary in the economy, they will stay because people will buy from them. If they aren't economically feasible, they will go.

And about american workers... if a lazy **** american worker builds a POS car for $20,000, and a hard working chinese guy builds a better car for $15,000, which one should I buy? Don't I have the right as a consumer to purchase the better quality vehicle?

I'm sick of all this American BS... if america wants business, america needs to make better products. I refuse to buy a piece of crap just because crack smoking john american built it.

This is a world economy now, face it.

edit: oh, and I am not saying the chinese are hard working and americans are not... though I have seen my fair share of lazy, careless american workers.

I would argue that a vast majority of American made goods are of vastly higher quality than Chinese made goods (of course there are exceptions). Go and buy a made in China DVD player Vs. an American made DVD player and let me know which plays your DVD's 8 months later. I cannot argue that the price of the U.S. made DVD player (necessarily) a similar price as the Chinese made one, but then again you won't have to buy 3 or 4 of the American made players as you would with the Chinese made one. That is absolutely not an exaggeration either. The DVD player is just one example of poorly made goods coming from China. Tires, toys, electronics in general, appliances, most food, and housewares that come from China are poorly made. That is not my personal attack at China, that is a fact. Try doing some research on defective products coming from China. Then re-evaluate if the Chinese made car is the same quality as the U.S. made one and if it's worth saving $5,000.

Greg