Do guys do "guy stuff" anymore?

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  • mdaudioguy
    mdaudioguy Posts: 5,165
    edited July 2010
    AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »
    If it's a 'project' from which I stand to learn something and can afford a mistake I'll tackle it.

    If it's mundane stuff I'd rather pay someone to do it.

    So I'll tackle the job of installing a turbocharger in a second vehicle because I see it as a fun project and I'll most likely learn something.

    Again, the fun factor comes into play! One man's fun is another's work, or worse, hell.
    AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »
    But stuff like mowing the yard and changing my oil? F that, I'm not wasting my time with that crap.

    My basic rule is if I can pay someone to do it for less than I can do it myself (using my salary as the basis) then I'll pay to have it done. Stuff like mowing grass and changing oil, it's cheaper for me to pay someone else to do it than what I make an hour. It's not perfect logic I know, but it works as a baseline.

    I make enough money to have that choice, and I'd rather do fun stuff and hang out with friends during my spare time.

    Makes as much sense to me as me doing it myself because I can. Whatever works for you!
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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 7,658
    edited July 2010
    I used to buy allot of jazz records from a store not too far from where I live. I was in there probably once every two weeks. This was a serious jazz shop, where people would come in, hear a few seconds of what the owner was playing and then call out who was on the record. They'd never miss. For the first few years I would keep my mouth shut because I knew these guys were some serious jazz enthusiasts. After a while I would ask the owner to keep an eye out for records I was looking for. And he started paying a little more attention to me and we struck up a bit of a friendship, talking about concerts and records coming out.
    One day he asked me if I played any musical instruments and I said no. He was amazed. From his point of view he couldn't understand that if I was serious about music why couldn't I at least play the drums, or something. Everyone he knew in his family and his friends played some kind of instrument. Liking music meant being able to make it.
    I guess I just didn't have the chance to learn one, or maybe a lack of aptitude? I asked him if he ever made his own audio component? He laughed and said no.
    Face it, everybody is different in what makes them tick and what skills they develop.
    My two cents, Ken
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  • j allen
    j allen Posts: 363
    edited July 2010
    This thread has given me an interesting thought. Most of the people I know who are obsessed with their manliness (sp?) barely know one end of a screwdriver from the other. They pay a guy like me, who could care less about being a real man, a small amount of money (or a case of beer) to do things for them. For instance: I used to work with this muscle head fellow, who talked about how he could do anything with a car. At one point, he paid me to install a new head unit in his car. At another, he paid me replace his alternator (after asking me to diagnose the problem) He kept up the appearance of competence, because I didn't like anyone at work enough to tell them about it.
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  • snow
    snow Posts: 4,337
    edited July 2010
    cfrizz wrote: »
    :confused: Snow, this is 2010 not 1810, it really isn't necessary to do those things, especially when you live in cities. Where are you going to burn that firewood? How far are you going to have to walk to get to an ocean, lake, river to fish? Last time I checked, you can't plant in concrete. What are you going to hunt with & where are you going to go to hunt?

    My best friend from HS can give any of you DIYers a run for your money with taking apart/put together/repair a car, repairing/updating her house, repairing just about anything on a boat. (she's a licensed boat Capt.) She can do all of this because she was (single mom = no money = DIY/cheap)

    There is no right or wrong answer here, and nobody is less of a man/woman/human being whether or not they can do any of this stuff.

    The world would be a much better place if we would stop trying to label everyone else to make ourselves feel better or more important than everyone else!
    Cathy you missed my point all together. What I said was that "IF" the electricty went out and there was no fuel to burn within weeks of this event occuring most would simply perish because they are overwhelmed at the thought of doing something that they are not trained to do. The smartest thing to do if you lived in a city would be to get the hell out of there if something happened so you could survive once the food that you could find in grocery stores ran out. It would only be neccesary to do these things if such an event occured, I believe that most are so reliant on others and scared of trying anything new that they would perish quickly is my point.

    Nowhere did I say that anyone is less of a man/woman or human for not having the skills or desire to do things they choose not to do only that I am amazed constantly at the lack of willingness to even attempt to do something for themselves that they havent done before.

    Come up here Cathy for a summer and I will make you a camping hunting fishing wood fire burning specialist :p

    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited July 2010
    John, I get what you are saying however, I think what got the guys stirred up was your title "Do guys do guy stuff anymore?"

    Guy translates into "Man" and as a man yourself you know how you guys get when ANYONE starts implying that you aren't MEN!:eek::D

    Hence a free-for-all.

    I'm glad you all are so handy, I now know who I can call when I need something done!:cool::p:D;)
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited July 2010
    Real men roll tubes and use fire.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited July 2010
    snow wrote: »
    Cathy you missed my point all together. What I said was that "IF" the electricty went out and there was no fuel to burn within weeks of this event occuring most would simply perish because they are overwhelmed at the thought of doing something that they are not trained to do. The smartest thing to do if you lived in a city would be to get the hell out of there if something happened so you could survive once the food that you could find in grocery stores ran out. It would only be neccesary to do these things if such an event occured, I believe that most are so reliant on others and scared of trying anything new that they would perish quickly is my point.

    Nowhere did I say that anyone is less of a man/woman or human for not having the skills or desire to do things they choose not to do only that I am amazed constantly at the lack of willingness to even attempt to do something for themselves that they havent done before.

    Come up here Cathy for a summer and I will make you a camping hunting fishing wood fire burning specialist :p

    REGARDS SNOW

    Oh I got your point Snow & thanks for the offer, however, I guess I'm gonna end up dead.

    Unfortunately this City girl who used to LOVE camping is now allergic to most of the great outdoors! If I get a splinter from a piece of wood, (I'm allergic to practically every tree there is) I might well go into anaphylactic shock & die, or at the very least the body part that gets the splinter will swell up & burn so bad I would be pretty useless. If I have to sleep on the grass, I won't be able to breathe come morning. Eventually I would probably come down with bronchitis/asthma & kick the bucket.:(

    I can't even hit a tennis ball, I doubt I would be able to hit a moving target!

    I dreamed as a kid of living out in the country, now you couldn't PAY me to do so.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • sucks2beme
    sucks2beme Posts: 5,601
    edited July 2010
    The point is, I guess, is we have backed away from the hands on stuff.
    Cars got complex. Hooking up a TV got all involved. I see that people wear
    moon suits to scrape paint off their woodwork in case it had(gasp!)
    LEADED PAINT! Please. Scrape it, just don't eat it, and everything will be fine.
    Asbestos isn't good for you, but it's NOT radioactive. There were only
    some forms, like pipe insulation, that broke down and caused problems.
    I'm a lousey carpenter. But I try to do whatever I can. If it's car related,
    I go for it. PC stuff, I never have paid anyone to do anything.
    Pay to install my stereo or tv? Not in this lifetime. But to each their own.
    I'm a cheap ****, and that means doing it the hard way every time.
    "The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited July 2010
    If this is taken to the manliest extreme....

    You bought a car??
    Wuss - should've mined the metal for the frame yourself, drilled for the crude to make the gas.

    You bought lumber for your house project?
    Wimp - shoulda grown your own trees and cut them down with the chain saw you made (cuz if you bought the chain saw you are a girly-man, shoulda made it yourself).

    You grilled a steak from the butcher?
    Limp wrist - shoulda grown the cow yourself and butchered with the hand forged knife you made in your backyard blacksmith forge.

    You posted in this thread?
    You better have made the cpu yourself from silicon dug up in your backyard and written your own microcode to program it - otherwise you are sissy.

    Geez - life is about choices, sometimes you pay a craftsman his due, cuz that is what he does.

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • PhantomOG
    PhantomOG Posts: 2,409
    edited July 2010
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    Geez - life is about choices, sometimes you pay a craftsman his due, cuz that is what he does.

    Apparently, the line in the sand for people nowadays has shifted away from what some people here consider "guy" stuff (NO, not "man", you're putting words in my mouth!!!!!! :rolleyes: ), and this is a baffling and perplexing thing.

    I'm just a jerk for thinking that with the advent of current technology and our country being on the upper end of the standard of living in this world that this was a shift that could be easily seen and understood as simple common knowledge.

    People in Africa hunt more than we do? WHY?? It blows my mind!!! People in the country know more about farming than people living in high rises in NYC?? Holy CRAP! I don't understand!!!!
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited July 2010
    You guys always have to take a simple point to the most ridiculous extremes (something I admit I've done before as well, obviously). You don't have to slaughter your own bull, it's just amazing when able people refuse to even tie their own shoes without calling the professionals. The connection to manliness is a bit old-fashioned but I think it conveys the point pretty well that it used to be a point of pride being able to do at least a reasonable amount of "hands-dirty" work when life called for it. The feminist movement kind of brought this to the women's side too.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited July 2010
    bobman1235 wrote: »
    You guys always have to take a simple point to the most ridiculous extremes (something I admit I've done before as well, obviously). You don't have to slaughter your own bull, it's just amazing when able people refuse to even tie their own shoes without calling the professionals. The connection to manliness is a bit old-fashioned but I think it conveys the point pretty well that it used to be a point of pride being able to do at least a reasonable amount of "hands-dirty" work when life called for it. The feminist movement kind of brought this to the women's side too.

    But that is all relative to the individual you ask - as is evident from all the different replies in this thread.

    One man's DIY project may be someone else's choice to pay the craftsman his due. Yet that person may take on a project that someone else would not choose to do.

    So, you end up here - with the one-upman game of what 'real' guy stuff is.

    I ain't no craftsman - wouldn't want to do my own plumbing, but if I HAD to, well of course, I would - but that's painting the line to the no-choice scenario.

    I've completely stripped down my dirt bike to its frame, had it powder coated, and put it all back together again and it worked, repaired the household appliances, can even program the DVR, catch, clean and cook a fish - but I ain't gonna go retrench my backyard for a new sprinkler system, cuz I choose not to cuz I did it once and I got better things to do with my time.

    So, where is the line for what is 'guy stuff'? ;)

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • Rivrrat
    Rivrrat Posts: 2,101
    edited July 2010
    Almost anything on a house (I have an AC guy on my roof right now. I don't know AC), but after our to the studs kitchen remodel three yrs ago, I'm still a bit burned out on remodeling. A lot with appliances, and stuff like that (again not much with refrigeration). I won't pay anyone again to eff up my pool either.

    I don't work on cars unless I absolutely have to.
    My equipment sig felt inadequate and deleted itself.
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited July 2010
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    But that is all relative to the individual you ask - as is evident from all the different replies in this thread.

    . . . .

    So, where is the line for what is 'guy stuff'? ;)

    The way we judge others is always subjective and relative, why would this be any different?

    For me, the line is drawn at the willingness to at least attempt things that ARE within your grasp. There are yuppie hipsters living in apartments who call their landlords when a light bulb goes out. You're talking a minute's worth of work vs waiting hours or days. Or if you call AAA for a flat and they say it'll be an hour, how about you get out of your car and give it a shot? My dad never taught me how to change a tire, but somehow I took the initiative and figured it out.

    Sitting back and scoffing at the idea of manual labor, or being incredulous that someone would do something on their own, is where the line is drawn for me, not at a speicfic task.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited July 2010
    bobman1235 wrote: »
    The way we judge others is always subjective and relative, why would this be any different?

    For me, the line is drawn at the willingness to at least attempt things that ARE within your grasp. There are yuppie hipsters living in apartments who call their landlords when a light bulb goes out. You're talking a minute's worth of work vs waiting hours or days. Or if you call AAA for a flat and they say it'll be an hour, how about you get out of your car and give it a shot? My dad never taught me how to change a tire, but somehow I took the initiative and figured it out.

    Sitting back and scoffing at the idea of manual labor, or being incredulous that someone would do something on their own, is where the line is drawn for me, not at a speicfic task.


    I got nothing but respect for the diy'er - more power to ya.

    But if the manly man is gonna chest thump and thumb his nose at someone who chooses to pay the plumber to fix his sink, then that ain't being a 'man' that's being a smug a-hole...

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • snow
    snow Posts: 4,337
    edited July 2010
    bobman1235 wrote: »
    The way we judge others is always subjective and relative, why would this be any different?

    For me, the line is drawn at the willingness to at least attempt things that ARE within your grasp. There are yuppie hipsters living in apartments who call their landlords when a light bulb goes out. You're talking a minute's worth of work vs waiting hours or days. Or if you call AAA for a flat and they say it'll be an hour, how about you get out of your car and give it a shot? My dad never taught me how to change a tire, but somehow I took the initiative and figured it out.

    Sitting back and scoffing at the idea of manual labor, or being incredulous that someone would do something on their own, is where the line is drawn for me, not at a speicfic task.
    That sums it up nicely for me what John was getting at.
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    I got nothing but respect for the diy'er - more power to ya.

    But if the manly man is gonna chest thump and thumb his nose at someone who chooses to pay the plumber to fix his sink, then that ain't being a 'man' that's being a smug a-hole...
    I didnt see where at least in his opening statement where he was chest thumping he simply asked a question
    I'm just amazed at how many people are stunned that when I talk about a project I'm doing myself, they are in disbelief that I am doing the work myself. It makes me wonder do guys do guy stuff anymore and if they don't, why? Is it because they don't want to or don't know how to?

    as to why so many were amazed that he was doing these projects himself not that he is/was better smarter or more or less of a man because he did.

    Then things went rapidly downhill from there :p

    REGARDS SNOW
    Well, I just pulled off the impossible by doing a double-blind comparison all by myself, purely by virtue of the fact that I completely and stupidly forgot what I did last. I guess that getting old does have its advantages after all :D
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    edited July 2010
    Jstas wrote: »
    AL! For shame! I shave the pits don'tcha know? Ever since lightman and his hissy-fit about "rogue hair" and "eye pokes", it's been a priority.
    It's about time! They were getting just plain nasty!

    Not bragging here.. If it wasn't for me all of my families homes would be lying in ruins, flooded or burnt to the ground. I have re-wired, re-plumbed or re-built there abodes in some fashion. It's to a point that a lot of folks do not even care to learn even the basic of skills.
    Now y'all quit picking on John! He can't help that he's the baddest motherforker on the planet. Plus the late night calls to me with him crying and sobbing about how "Nobody understands me! What do I have to do to make them understand?!!"
    Sheesh! Turn in Your man card, John.
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    edited July 2010
    danger boy wrote: »
    TMI :p
    Al..you're such a handsome feller that I'm surprised that you have to pay for anything.;)
    Hugs ans kisses...
    Russ
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  • wz2p7j
    wz2p7j Posts: 840
    edited July 2010
    lightman1 wrote: »
    It's about time! They were getting just plain nasty!

    Not bragging here.. If it wasn't for me all of my families homes would be lying in ruins, flooded or burnt to the ground. I have re-wired, re-plumbed or re-built there abodes in some fashion. It's to a point that a lot of folks do not even care to learn even the basic of skills.
    Now y'all quit picking on John! He can't help that he's the baddest motherforker on the planet. Plus the late night calls to me with him crying and sobbing about how "Nobody understands me! What do I have to do to make them understand?!!"
    Sheesh! Turn in Your man card, John.

    Don't know about man stuff but I think I see some man love here!! :eek::eek:

    Chris
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  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,788
    edited July 2010
    wz2p7j wrote: »
    Don't know about man stuff but I think I see some man love here!! :eek::eek:

    Chris
    Stand in line, sugarpants. I might make you cry, too.;)
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  • wz2p7j
    wz2p7j Posts: 840
    edited July 2010
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Stand in line, sugarpants. I might make you cry, too.;)

    LOL :eek::eek:

    Chris
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2010
    szhleppy wrote: »
    As a guy named Courtney, it's mandatory to do as much "guy stuff" as possible.

    I seriously LOLed at that one!


    I think I'm on the more DIY side than most, but there's also always times when it makes since to have someone else do it too.

    For instance, I was working in my garage a couple months ago. A sales lady come up and talked to me about an oil change special. Essentially $60 for 4 oil changes and I could do other stuff for free like tire rotation, etc. $15 is less than what I can DIY for. And I hate crawling under the wifes car, even with ramps.

    I do all of the maintenance other than that though. When those 4 oil changes are up, I'll start doing my own again. I do brakes (but stay away from drums)...when I hit a raccoon in my wifes car, I changed out the radiator and ac condenser, fixed the bumper, etc.

    But I cant rebuild a motor or anything like that. My dad can though.

    But I love building stuff and I enjoy doing electrical stuff. I had to do a lot of wiring for my garage that I did without paying someone to do it.

    I'll attack a minor plumbing problem, but nothing major. But I also have a wealth of info at my finger tips. My wife's dad LITERALLY built his house...the entire thing from pouring the slab to putting the roof on. The only thing he didnt do was the dry wall...and that was simply because he could pay someone to do it and it would be the same cost, if not less, as doing it himself and they could do it in a quarter of the time. My dad is an electrician, my uncle is an AC guy...and my entire family knows about cars...if I cant figure it out on my own through the internet. Which in fact, when my brother was having a problem with his tahoe who took it to a GREAT mechanic(we've used him for years for stuff), but the mechanic couldnt figure it out. I looked it up online and found out what it was. The internet is a great tool.




    ****************************

    But then there's the other side of things. I used to work at a car electronics shop. We did everything from cruise controls to full fiberglass audio systems. Talk about when guys SHOULDNT do it themselves. We got our fair share.

    So what I'm also trying to say is I give mad props to the people who KNOW THEIR LIMITS...because it can end up being a dangerous nightmare otherwise.
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,047
    edited July 2010
    WOW! This thread went downill quickly........:rolleyes:
    Shawn
    AVR: Marantz SR-5011
    Center Channel: Polk LsiM706c
    Front: Polk LsiM703
    Rear: LSI fx
    Subwoofer: SVS 20-39pci
    Television: Samsung UN58NU7100FXZA
    DVD Player: Sony PS4
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  • greyford1979
    greyford1979 Posts: 749
    edited July 2010
    I never thought of it as doing manly things...I just love doing many of these things many of you have mentioned, especially working on my cars and trucks. Helped my little brother build a custom offroad truck out of a 1991 F150, most of whats been done to my truck I also did myself. But I understand not all enjoy or even have the knowledge do do certain things...me, I will just keep doing what I do until I can't do them any more. Plus my fiance thinks it's sexy when I get all greasy and dirty:eek::p;):D
    I love animals, they're delicious!
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  • messiah
    messiah Posts: 1,790
    edited July 2010
    Yep, I do it all myself. I've made it a point to become friends with others that can teach me new skills. I do my own home repair, auto repair, and help my friends that are learning with theirs as well. I couldn't live with myself if I went to work all week just to give it to someone else because I'm too damn lazy to do it myself. It saves me money, and provides a sense of acomplishment. If I was a millionaire I would probably still change my own oil. At least I would know it was done properly lol.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin, February 17th, 1775.

    "The day that I have to give up my constitutional rights AND let some dude rub my junk...well, let's just say that it's gonna be a real bad day for the dude trying to rub my junk!!"
    messiah, November 23rd, 2010
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  • greyford1979
    greyford1979 Posts: 749
    edited July 2010
    messiah wrote: »
    Yep, I do it all myself. I've made it a point to become friends with others that can teach me new skills. I do my own home repair, auto repair, and help my friends that are learning with theirs as well. I couldn't live with myself if I went to work all week just to give it to someone else because I'm too damn lazy to do it myself. It saves me money, and provides a sense of acomplishment. If I was a millionaire I would probably still change my own oil. At least I would know it was done properly lol.

    The last time I took my truck to get the oil changed, which I only did it because I didn't have the time that week, the idiot didn't notice that the gasket for the old oil filter was stuck to the block. So ofc the oil leaked out all over the place:mad: That was over 5 years ago, and the last time I will ever take one of my vehicles some where.
    I love animals, they're delicious!
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  • obieone
    obieone Posts: 5,077
    edited July 2010
    I don't know what Jstas is asking about, but I'll play along: I fix things for a living, commerical and industrial HVAC. I've got about $6k invested in tools. Not much compared to an auto mechanic, or a carpenter, but more than most other trades.
    When I was younger, I used to do all the repairs on my vehicles, because I HAD to. Now I make enough money to pay other people to do their trades. There are still certain things I'll do, maintaining my truck, but changing the oil isn't one of them.
    I don't fish or hunt, but I do own guns:p.
    I don't really care about sports anymore, because, IMHO, the pro athlete has gotten spoiled and narcissistic.
    Would I sit for 45 minutes, and wait for some tow truck driver to change my tire? Not just no, but F*** NO! And guys like that are gonna be fooked, when the SHTF!
    I refuse to argue with idiots, because people can't tell the DIFFERENCE!
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  • messiah
    messiah Posts: 1,790
    edited July 2010
    greyford1979 wrote: »
    The last time I took my truck to get the oil changed, which I only did it because I didn't have the time that week, the idiot didn't notice that the gasket for the old oil filter was stuck to the block. So ofc the oil leaked out all over the place:mad: That was over 5 years ago, and the last time I will ever take one of my vehicles some where.

    Yep, thats all it took for me as well.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin, February 17th, 1775.

    "The day that I have to give up my constitutional rights AND let some dude rub my junk...well, let's just say that it's gonna be a real bad day for the dude trying to rub my junk!!"
    messiah, November 23rd, 2010
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited July 2010
    Speaking of being a man, you can now build your own corvette engine from the factory, at the factory!
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38211262/ns/business-autos/
    -Cody
    Music is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it
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  • messiah
    messiah Posts: 1,790
    edited July 2010
    obieone wrote: »
    I don't know what Jstas is asking about, but I'll play along: I fix things for a living, commerical and industrial HVAC. I've got about $6k invested in tools. Not much compared to an auto mechanic, or a carpenter, but more than most other trades.
    When I was younger, I used to do all the repairs on my vehicles, because I HAD to. Now I make enough money to pay other people to do their trades. There are still certain things I'll do, maintaining my truck, but changing the oil isn't one of them.
    I don't fish or hunt, but I do own guns:p.
    I don't really care about sports anymore, because, IMHO, the pro athlete has gotten spoiled and narcissistic.
    Would I sit for 45 minutes, and wait for some tow truck driver to change my tire? Not just no, but F*** NO! And guys like that are gonna be fooked, when the SHTF!

    Amen to the SHTF comment! Even if you choose not to do simple stuff like maintaining a car, at least know how!
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin, February 17th, 1775.

    "The day that I have to give up my constitutional rights AND let some dude rub my junk...well, let's just say that it's gonna be a real bad day for the dude trying to rub my junk!!"
    messiah, November 23rd, 2010
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