Will polk ever bring out high end speakers

dkg999

I'm with Russman. It would be great if Polk continued to supply the drivers/passives and x-over's for the SDA series of speakers. That way the existing ones can be kept up-to-spec and the faithful can easily build their own. They could have a driver/passive package for let's say an SDA-1C that comes with complete plans for the x-over and the cabinet dimensions.

I look forward to a new LSi line and think Polk Audio is doing a great job with their product line and marketing.

F1nut

hearingimpared wrote: »

Ugh!

Really. There's dems that gets it and there's dems that don't.

TECHNOKID

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

Are some people drunk today on the forum or are they drinking stupid water?

It is no longer their gear it is my gear when I pay for it, and can do as I please with it.

Yes, you bought the gear NOT the design! I always felt Polk was very casual about their designs. However in the past, I witnessed a product being made by one company for 2 different brand names. The same board was used in the 2 brands but some of the components were omitted (not installed) on the cheaper brand boards.

This fact was discovered by some wise technicians that decided to upgrade the cheaper brand with the extra components that were present in the more expensive brand. Didn't take long the company found out and got their lawyers to communicate with the guilty technicians and warned them to stop doing such or they would be taken to court for tampering with their proprietary design.

Fact is, DIY is a good thing for consumers but not so good for the company that actually spend time and money to create the design. So, what I was expressing is that it would be more benifial for Polk to provide improved Xo and have betterr control over the gear that POLK DESIGNED. On a business perspective, what good are the buyer and tweekers of old gear to the company unless the companies are the source and suppliers for the vintage gear that they graciously still provide drivers for?

Cheers!
TK

treitz3

For the 101th post on this thread, I have nothing to offer. How about that?

Toolfan66

There is no law telling me I can't change the design. Like I said before the majority of buyers will not be looking to upgrade the XO's in said speaker and a real tweeker is not going to be buying a XO completed by said company they are an artist in their own right, and have their own ideas.

If you would really think about it,The avarage buyer will not buy them, and the avarage tweeker will not but them. So how again is this good for said company?

Now selling replacement parts is a whole different story.

TECHNOKID wrote: »

Yes, you bought the gear NOT the design! I always felt Polk was very casual about their designs. However in the past, I witnessed a product being made by one company for 2 different brand names. The same board was used in the 2 brands but some of the components were omitted (not installed) on the cheaper brand boards.

This fact was discovered by some wise technicians that decided to upgrade the cheaper brand with the extra components that were present in the more expensive brand. Didn't take long the company found out and got their lawyers to communicate with the guilty technicians and warned them to stop doing such or they would be taken to court for tampering with their proprietary design.

Fact is, DIY is a good thing for consumers but not so good for the company that actually spend time and money to create the design. So, what I was expressing is that it would be more benifial for Polk to provide improved Xo and have betterr control over the gear that POLK DESIGNED. On a business perspective, what good are the buyer and tweekers of old gear to the company unless the companies are the source and suppliers for the vintage gear that they graciously still provide drivers for?

Cheers!
TK

DarqueKnight

Upgrade Kits

Polk tried the "upgrade kit" thing with the SDA SRS 1.2. After the SDA SRS 1.2TL came out, Polk released an upgrade kit that consisted of new crossover boards and new tweeters. I wonder if that project was a commercial success?


High End Marketing

I know that large, expensive speakers sell. I've listened to a lot of them. I also know that what it takes to sell them is a headache and heartache and bank-account-ache that a lot of companies just don't want to deal with. The higher you go up the food chain, with any type of product, the more the "intangible qualities" associated with that product become increasingly important. For high end products, excellent quality is taken for granted. Therefore it is more difficult to distinguish a product from its peer offerings based on performance and quality. Company reputation, dealer reputation, pride of ownership, the desire for consumers to associate with a brand, and striking aesthetics are more significant in the high end.

I don't doubt that Ford could design and manufacture a high end sports car with aesthetics, performance and reliability that would shame every Ferrari in existence. However, no matter how beautiful, fast and reliable the Ford, how many would buy it...even if it was half the cost and twice the quality and beauty of a Ferrari? People in the market for exotic, high end sports cars don't want to be seen in a Ford. They don't want to associate with that brand. There is no prestige, no mystique, no "babe magnetism" associated with Ford. I think most people in the market for a high end sports car would rather buy a maintenance intensive 10 year old Ferrari than be given a brand new high end, high performance, highly reliable, Ford branded sports car.

Some mid-market companies have successfully implemented high end offerings. Toyota did this with their Lexus brand. However, Lexus was a huge billion dollar gamble for Toyota...but they had a billion dollars, or more, to gamble.

Designing and building high performance loudspeakers isn't easy, but it isn't rocket science either. I don't doubt that Polk could design and bring to market a high end speaker, SDA or not, that would shame a significant portion of the high end brands out there. Furthermore, with Polk's manufacturing facilities, they could probably offer superior high end speakers at much lower prices than competing "boutique" brands.

Assuming this magical, mystical high end Polk speaker did appear, how many people in the market for high end speakers would audition, let alone buy, it? How many high end dealers would sign up to carry it? Where's the love and pent up demand for Polk in high end circles?

Similar to Lexus, with excellent quality, styling, marketing, some highly complimentary reviews in the high end audio press, and some rave reviews on the audio forums, a high end Polk speaker would catch on...but Polk couldn't call it Polk...just like Lexus couldn't use the Toyota brand for their high end cars and and Infinity couldn't use the Nissan brand for their high end cars.;)

Toolfan66

Very well said DK.

F1nut

I don't doubt that Ford could design and manufacture a high end sports car with aesthetics, performance and reliability that would shame every Ferrari in existence. However, no matter how beautiful, fast and reliable the Ford, how many would buy it...even if it was half the cost and twice the quality and beauty of a Ferrari? People in the market for exotic, high end sports cars don't want to be seen in a Ford. They don't want to associate with that brand. There is no prestige, no mystique, no "babe magnetism" associated with Ford.

I luvs ya bro, but....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_GT

And let's not forget the mid to late '60's Ford Shelby GT500, which are commanding prices approaching $200,000 today. I can tell you from personal experience, it's a bad **** car that any car nut would love to own.

TECHNOKID

Similar to Lexus, with excellent quality, styling, marketing, some highly complimentary reviews in the high end audio press, and some rave reviews on the audio forums, a high end Polk speaker would catch on...but Polk couldn't call it Polk...just like Lexus couldn't use the Toyota brand for their high end cars and and Infinity couldn't use the Nissan brand for their high end cars.

F1nut wrote: »

I luvs ya bro, but....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_GT

And let's not forget the mid to late '60's Ford Shelby GT500, which are commanding prices approaching $200,000 today. I can tell you from personal experience, it's a bad **** car that any car nut would love to own.

However, we knew it was Toyota and Nissan. I never been to keen of Ford products but again the same applies here (proper marketting). I never been to keen of Black & Decker products however there also marketting was successfull (Dewalt) Then, we should all agree it is about marketting and Polk can be as successfull if not more than some of the brands previously mentioned (Ford and Black & Decker). Ownership of Polk is even bigger than Polk itself. If needed be for marketting purpose to provide a different name, then so be it but sometime a simple Special Edition is enough to get attention (the automotive market has used such for quite a long time with greath success).

Face

F1nut wrote: »

So, you had a problem with the interconnect cable and now you're down on SDA's? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Tell you what, try to find another speaker company that still supports their product with proprietary replacement tweeters and drivers 20+ years down the road.

Tannoy.

yepimonfire

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Does anyone here have an opinion on this subject ?

I know the rti line is good and the lsi line is better but dont you think its about time polk released a line for hardcore enthusiasts ?

I am not talking $10,000 speakers but a line from about $5,000

Polk alreadys established as amazing for the money so I think they should have the same rep for higher end

well lets just say this, i recently bought a pair of monitor 40's and a PSW10, compared to a pair of $500 dollar a piece 3-way KEF speakers and a sub from them that was like $2000, the monitor 40s can crush them into dust, i have no idea how they do it, but every polk speaker no matter the price ive ever listened too sounds like a million bucks. most $5,000 dollar a piece speakers are way marked up for profit. i've heard 300 dollar speakers that sound better then some of those $5,000 dollar ones. klipsch is a good example of this madness, and i don't like how there speakers sound. the use of horns makes the high very bright and harsh and most of their large floorstanders you would think would be bass capable are severly lacking in the low end. yet they mark their speakers up to $1000 a piece. polk is like the greatest thing ever, i can have amazing speakers without going broke.

Face

Say if Polk did come out with an upgrade kit, does anyone realize what they would have to charge? Say if the cost of parts were $200 to $300, expect at least a $500 to $1000 price tag for the final product. Do you really see many spending that much to upgrade a $1500 pair speakers?

If would be nice if Polk used more film caps right from the factory though. I've even seen Bennic caps in the crossovers of $220 speakers, and with how many speakers Polk sells, I'm sure their bulk price would be pretty reasonable.

yepimonfire

Face wrote: »

Say if Polk did come out with an upgrade kit, does anyone realize what they would have to charge? Say if the cost of parts were $200 to $300, expect at least a $500 to $1000 price tag for the final product. Do you really see many spending that much to upgrade a $1500 pair speakers?

If would be nice if Polk used more film caps right from the factory though. I've even seen Bennic caps in the crossovers of $220 speakers, and with how many speakers Polk sells, I'm sure their bulk price would be pretty reasonable.

crossovers are not that hard to build and not that expensive, if your serious about audio enough im sure you can find a way to build an x-over, or better yet use an active x-over. if you build your own x-overs and do your own upgrades it would be better and cheaper then polk making one, you can tweak things the way you want them to be. not to mention if polks sold upgrades with all of their speakers wouldnt that make newcomers a bit suspiscious of them and have them thinking "are these built so poorly i must upgrade them"?

On3s&Z3r0s

F1nut wrote: »

So, you had a problem with the interconnect cable and now you're down on SDA's? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Tell you what, try to find another speaker company that still supports their product with proprietary replacement tweeters and drivers 20+ years down the road.

When was the last time you tried ordering an SW120 from Polk? Not that it has anything to do with whether Polk should be working toward more complex or less complex designs in the future. It's like we got three threads going here... 1) should Polk be courting the high-end market, 2) should Polk be going out of its way to support the DIY / hobbyist market, and 3) SDA was the pinnacle of sound reproduction technology for all time.

Clearly, #3 is ridiculous on its face cause, duh, quadraphonic sound???

(Had my first beer of the weekend, so being a little sarcastic here, just to clarify. :rolleyes:)

I don't mean to suggest all three are not interesting and entertaining discussions. Carry on.

yepimonfire

does polk still have replacement parts for old models?

polkfarmboy

yepimonfire wrote: »

does polk still have replacement parts for old models?

Yep they do

yepimonfire

thats impressive.

TECHNOKID

yepimonfire wrote: »

does polk still have replacement parts for old models?

Yes, for many of their vintage. As previously mentioned, it is one of the rare companies that support their older lines of speakers.

if you build your own x-overs and do your own upgrades it would be better and cheaper then polk making one,

1. Better: Unless you are an engineer and-or know exactly what you are doing, I don't agree that you can do a better job than what the proffessional can do.

2. Cheaper:: Unless you are an insider and have the connections I think you would pay quite the price for your minimal order while Polk having the quantity buying could probably offer the kit at a very competitive pricing.

3. Selected Speakers Models: Carefull here, we were mainly talking about the LSi product. It wouldn't make sense to offer such a kit speakers that are sold less than what the kits would be worth.

Say if Polk did come out with an upgrade kit, does anyone realize what they would have to charge? Say if the cost of parts were $200 to $300, expect at least a $500 to $1000 price tag for the final product. Do you really see many spending that much to upgrade a $1500 pair speakers?

Face, I wonder how you get those numbers?

If would be nice if Polk used more film caps right from the factory though. I've even seen Bennic caps in the crossovers of $220 speakers, and with how many speakers Polk sells, I'm sure their bulk price would be pretty reasonable.

Agreed however, this proves that Polk could do an Xo kit or enhance Xo for much cheaper than your above pricing. If there is an enhance or upgraded Xo, it doesn't even mean all parts would have to be replaced, right?

Also some form of an exchange program could be implemented (IE: the replaced Xo could be returned to Polk for a minimal credit).

Cheers!
TK



Cheers!
TK

hearingimpared

TECHNOKID wrote: »

1. Better: Unless you are an engineer and-or know exactly what you are doing, I don't agree that you can do a better job than what the proffessional can do.

Unless you are talking about designing I gotta disagree with you. Many DIYer's do a an excellent job of upgrading crossovers. I did one of mine after some tutorledge to refresh my soldering and schematic reading skills.

TECHNOKID wrote: »

2. Cheaper:: Unless you are an insider and have the connections I think you would pay quite the price for your minimal order while Polk having the quantity buying could probably offer the kit at a very competitive pricing.

You can do all kinds of shopping around to find a great price on the components that you want to use to do xover upgrades. True Polk could probably get them cheaper in bulk but are they going to be the ones you want or just what they have available.

DarqueKnight

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I don't doubt that Ford could design and manufacture a high end sports car with aesthetics, performance and reliability that would shame every Ferrari in existence. However, no matter how beautiful, fast and reliable the Ford, how many would buy it...even if it was half the cost and twice the quality and beauty of a Ferrari? People in the market for exotic, high end sports cars don't want to be seen in a Ford. They don't want to associate with that brand. There is no prestige, no mystique, no "babe magnetism" associated with Ford.

F1nut wrote: »

I luvs ya bro, but....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_GT

And let's not forget the mid to late '60's Ford Shelby GT500, which are commanding prices approaching $200,000 today. I can tell you from personal experience, it's a bad **** car that any car nut would love to own.

I am a "Ford man", but the Ford GT illustrates the point I was trying to make. The GT was never offered as a serious competitor to other high end (i.e. European) sports cars, but rather as a limited production, high end alternative for the "Ford Faithful". Of the people who bought GT's, I wonder how many of them would say, "You know, I was considering a Porsche/Lotus/BMW/Mercedes/Ferrari/Aston Martin, but that Ford GT really caught my eye!" I also wonder how many more people would have bought the GT if it wasn't a "Ford".

From the Wikipedia article:

"Of the 4,500 GTs originally planned, approximately 100 were to be exported to Europe, starting in late 2005."

and

"A few other early cars sold for as much as a $100,000 premium over the suggested retail price of $139,995 (Ford increased the MSRP to $149,995 on July 1, 2005). An enthusiast website, FordGTprices.com, tracked sales and production numbers, and published up-to-date best-pricing advice, based on tracking the prices of successfully completed eBay auctions of the cars. By June 2005, retail sale prices had dropped to around $10,000 to $20,000 over MSRP, and in August 2005 several new GTs were sold on eBay for no more than the suggested retail price.

The production run of 4038 GT's ended the 2006 model year on 21 September 2006, short of the originally planned 4500."

I expect that Ford would be making GT's today, or something like it, if there had been sufficient market interest. Realistically, Ford knew from the beginning that they would need to be able to steal sales from the European exoticar brands in order to be viable. That just wasn't going to happen unless Ford created a high end brand that was totally differentiated from Ford.

Similarly, if Polk came out with an updated, higher performance SDA SRS 1.2TL, I'd be one of the first, if not the first, in line with cash in hand. However, I am an SDA cultist, so what else would you expect? I'm sure Polk appreciates the dedication of SDA cultists and others yearning for a Polk upper high end speaker, but I'm also sure that Polk knows that there aren't enough of us to make it worth their investment...unless they decide to go with a full fledged upscale division (a la Lexus) and attract new buyers to the brand.:)

hearingimpared

I've missed you on the board Bro, stop working so hard!;)

DarqueKnight

yepimonfire wrote: »

...if polks sold upgrades with all of their speakers wouldnt that make newcomers a bit suspiscious of them and have them thinking "are these built so poorly i must upgrade them"?

No. You are confusing "upgrade" with "repair".

"Upgrade" does not imply that something is wrong with the original configuration. Automotive upgrades are a multi-billion dollar business. Does this mean that the original cars are built so poorly that they "need" to be upgraded? No, it means that there is a niche of auto enthusiasts that like the basic automotive platform, yet want to tweak it for higher performance. Furthermore, various automotive upgrade packages, from engines to interior appointments to brakes, are available from the factory. Again, there is nothing wrong with the "base" vehicle, but some people like a little more performance or luxury features.

When I upgraded my SDA's, I did not do so because I wanted to fix something that was poorly built. I did so because I wanted to enhance the performance that was already there.

DarqueKnight

hearingimpared wrote: »

...stop working so hard!;)

I have no choice. I have four babies in Brazil.:(

F1nut

The GT was never offered as a serious competitor to other high end (i.e. European) sports cars, but rather as a limited production, high end alternative for the "Ford Faithful".

I don't know.....I'd call it a serious competitor and certainly rarer than most of the European sports cars. If nothing else at least Ford put forth the effort.

hearingimpared

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I have no choice. I have four babies in Brazil.:(

:eek::eek::eek::eek: I hope their not girls!:D

DarqueKnight

F1nut wrote: »

I'd call it a serious competitor and certainly rarer than most of the European sports cars. If nothing else at least Ford put forth the effort.

I think the GT was a stellar automotive achievment.

In real, absolute terms, I think the GT was better than much, if not most of its European competition. A GT was certainly a much better value than a similarly priced Ferrari simply from the fact that the GT had a much more extensive dealer and service network. There are very few people in the US that don't have a Ford dealership conveniently located to them. That is not, and never will be true of Ferrari, Lotus, Aston Martin, Porsche, etc.

The GT was not a serious competitor to the European sports cars in terms of market perception and desirability.

Norm Apter

This thread is quite a propos for me. Just sent the crossovers for my Lsi9s out for an upgrade. Can't wait to hear the results.

Amherst

hearingimpared wrote: »

Stu I have to disagree. Just how many orders per year do you think they would get? IMHO not that many on new speakers or even speakers made since 2001 to warrant paying an engineer to be assigned for such. As far as the buying power of comonents in bulk, take my low figure and raise it , now they've got bulk components sitting around taking up space and not making any money not to mention WHICH components do they go with?

I think making their stock boards a bit larger is a good idea as it will enable a DIYer to make any improvements with bigger caps easier but again at what cost? Take into consideration all the speakers they sell in a year. Then add the cost of a larger board in each one for the few who are going to be upgrading their xover components. I still don't see how this would be cost effective for them.

Look at the xover boards in any of the SDAs. Anyone who wants to upgrade their caps can figure out a way to fit them on the board no matter how small. Look at Darqueknights upgrades to the SDA/SRS . . . lots more caps needed to upgrade, compared to the other versions, on a pretty small board but he did it and it looks and sounds good.

I just see offering an upgrade kit as a major pain in the butt without much ROI. Besides if one wants to upgrade their speaker xovers but knows jack schitt about doing the job, there are plenty of shops who would be willing to do the work not to mention the people here who could do it for them plus they would be getting the caps and resistors of their choice rather than what Polk might have available on an off-the-shelf xover upgrade kit.

Just my humble opinion.:)

The points above are well taken. ROI is king and nothing else matters.
The thing I see missing is the ability to re-engineer and Polk already has the numbers to support tweeks. Even if members here can do some work with that, the task is daunting to obtain a desired result without some detriment.
I only refer to where adjustments are required, not a straight upgrade.


TO F1: Understood, XO will not correct corner loading, Thanks. I also understand that corner loading is part of the problem here. I will say though that the speakers that replaced the LSi's are located in the exact same positions and do not exhibit near the same issue. The replacements are front ported.

dorokusai

I would suggest upgrading your own or getting a friend to do so. The likelihood of Polk Audio supporting idea, as stated previously, is pretty much -0%. There are way more important projects coming soon and on the boards.

RuSsMaN

I remember when I had my first beer.