This is just hi larious! Field runner gets tasered at a Phillies game

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  • ShinAce
    ShinAce Posts: 1,194
    edited May 2010
    A current is induced by applying a voltage. It's just that if you cap off the current, then voltage itself won't be able to induce a lethal current.

    You can't pump 500k volts through a person at low current, the voltage loss will show up outside the body. Impedance regulates current.

    It's hard to say how much current is needed to kill someone. It's going to depend on how it's applied. Directly to the heart, 1ma and you're probably done with this world. A heart muscle's action potential is on the order of 70mV. Someone wearing a pacemaker ends up with catheters to the heart that can serve to increase the taser danger.

    Not to mention, the risk of fibrillation. How many cops walk around with defibrillators and the expertise to use them?

    p.s. a heart is affected just as much as other muscles. It is the heart's natural pacemaker, the sinoatrial node, that gives a fundamental heartbeat. Yes! Your heart will beat if the tissue gets oxygen even when removed from the body. It's kinda freaky.

    Don't ask me why I've been reading a medical school pathophysiology of heart disease textbook. I still don't know. But I can read your ECG for you if you want.
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  • mrbigbluelight
    mrbigbluelight Posts: 9,878
    edited May 2010
    hearingimpared wrote: »
    The ole internet Bronx cheer!:D

    Thank goodness that was a Bronx cheer ...... I was afraid that was a Boston (bean) cheer. :)

    Demiurge wrote: »
    Freudian slip?

    :o (dam this spell checker !!!!)

    Also, I meant to say, "TRIAL enrollment" not "TRAIL enrollment". :o

    It's just hard to pay attention when I start entertaining myself.


    Awesome adjustment of that picture, btw ..... CP can use more of your handiwork .
    Sal Palooza
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  • FiveORacing
    FiveORacing Posts: 105
    edited May 2010
    I got in trouble 20 years ago for blasting a guy with a fire extinguisher. He had a knife and was begging us to shoot him. I was told I should have either killed him or talked him down. We use to use fire extinguishers on Pit Bulls all the time.

    (NJ)
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,985
    edited May 2010
    ShinAce wrote: »
    You can't pump 500k volts through a person at low current, the voltage loss will show up outside the body. Impedance regulates current.

    The point was lost on you, wasn't it? Know how I know? You reiterated the same point as if I had never made it.

    BTW, a cattle prod typically runs about 500,000 volts for the smaller ones. Stick someone with that and they'll poo their pants and disorient them but it's unlikely that they will die.

    Using a human in a circuit as a resistor...yeah, that's a little twisted. But no, you aren't going to see 500,000 volts out because the body is not just a resistor but it has capacitance too. There are several laws that state that you won't get out the same voltage you put in.
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  • jflail2
    jflail2 Posts: 2,868
    edited May 2010
    FiveORacing wrote: »
    I got in trouble 20 years ago for blasting a guy with a fire extinguisher. He had a knife and was begging us to shoot him. I was told I should have either killed him or talked him down. We use to use fire extinguishers on Pit Bulls all the time.

    (NJ)

    What???

    I had fire extinguishers go off in/near my face on a fairly regular basis when working for a fire safety shop 1 summer. All I did was fill extinguishers or test fire hose at factories all summer long.

    You did the guy a favor with the fire extinguisher. Good thinking, even if your superiors didn't agree...

    And agreed on both that the kid shouldn't have been running like that, and captain fatty could stand to lose a few pounds. I was at the Richmond nascar race last weekend, and some of the sheriffs there couldnt catch my 84 year old grandfather, much less a suspect in full stride....
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  • Amherst
    Amherst Posts: 695
    edited May 2010
    zombie boy 2000 wrote: »
    "Bleeding heart liberals are wrecking this world"

    Yup...correct.

    No soap box and no rant, just the truth.
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,985
    edited May 2010
    wz2p7j wrote: »
    Read up on it in Wikipedia, just like you friend. I'm not going to debate tasers, arguments can be made both ways.
    .
    I've already posted the facts that are relevant to the discussion here. I guess we could agree to disagree, but why would I want to do that when I'm winning the debate?? :D:D

    Chris


    No, see, genius, everything I wrote came from my brain. I quoted Wikipedia because it was the first link that came up when I asked Google to tell me how a TASER worked.

    You haven't posted any facts. If you have, you haven't provided anything to show that they are anything more than your misguided opinions or your flawed deductive reasoning concerning law enforcement policies.


    Joe,

    I've always seen the "death limit" I guess you could call it as a half an amp (.5). But then again, when talking about voltages that large, it doesn't really matter because you could crack your brain bucket open from the fall, nevermind the amperage.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2010
    ShinAce wrote: »
    Not to mention, the risk of fibrillation. How many cops walk around with defibrillators and the expertise to use them?
    Many patrol vehicles carry AED's, which requires training/rectification at least every other year. Besides, I'm sure the ballpark has a few on hand. You can even find them at little league parks nowadays.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,985
    edited May 2010
    Face wrote: »
    Many patrol vehicles carry AED's, which requires training/rectification at least every other year. Besides, I'm sure the ballpark has a few on hand. You can even find them at little league parks nowadays.

    My ex's friend's husband works for the Phillies in the front office. Everyone is trained in basic first aid, whatever the process is that replaced CPR and they have a select few trained to use A.E.D.s which are required by law in PA, just like NJ, IIRC. Hell, in public places there are automated A.E.D.s in boxes on the street. You break the box to get to the A.E.D. and it calls the ambulance to that location. It also will not defib if it senses a regular heat beat. It doesn't shock if not hooked up correctly either. So they keep people from killing each other fairly well.
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited May 2010
    The units are pretty idiot proof. Along with illustrations, many give verbal commands, guiding the user through the procedure.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • superjunior
    superjunior Posts: 1,632
    edited May 2010
    priceless, I love taser vids
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited May 2010
    Kex wrote: »
    OK, so forget the bomb in New York, what about Monica Seles being stabbed by a 19 year-old?

    Exactly what was not supposed to be "potentially dangerous" about this field runner in the officer's split second judgement?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/30/newsid_2499000/2499161.stm

    Exactly the point I wanted to make, Kex.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited May 2010
    ShinAce wrote: »
    A current is induced by applying a voltage. It's just that if you cap off the current, then voltage itself won't be able to induce a lethal current.

    You can't pump 500k volts through a person at low current, the voltage loss will show up outside the body. Impedance regulates current.
    It's hard to say how much current is needed to kill someone. It's going to depend on how it's applied. Directly to the heart, 1ma and you're probably done with this world. A heart muscle's action potential is on the order of 70mV. Someone wearing a pacemaker ends up with catheters to the heart that can serve to increase the taser danger.

    Not to mention, the risk of fibrillation. How many cops walk around with defibrillators and the expertise to use them?

    p.s. a heart is affected just as much as other muscles. It is the heart's natural pacemaker, the sinoatrial node, that gives a fundamental heartbeat. Yes! Your heart will beat if the tissue gets oxygen even when removed from the body. It's kinda freaky.

    Don't ask me why I've been reading a medical school pathophysiology of heart disease textbook. I still don't know. But I can read your ECG for you if you want.

    Not entirely true, you can use step up transformers to up the voltage to any level and the resistance that voltage is applied to is a non-factor as the transformer is only stepping up the voltage and lowering the current. I'm sure tasers are step up transformers or else the danger to kill someone with it would be hit or miss.
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  • zombie boy 2000
    zombie boy 2000 Posts: 6,641
    edited May 2010
    Amherst wrote: »
    Yup...correct.

    No soap box and no rant, just the truth.

    I think you have a very limited concept of "world". Maybe you should consider taking the occasional stroll out of your Platonic cave every once in a while lest you find yourself choking on so many absolutes.

    Either that or you could eat a sandwich. I could care less.
    I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited May 2010
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  • doctorcilantro
    doctorcilantro Posts: 2,028
    edited May 2010
    Well, if the guy dies on the field, I be pissed about the major ensuing delay, not to mention explaining it away to my kid, which would be either, "He's sleeping because he got hurt", or "Don't fool around, or you can be killed by law enforcement".

    Yeah, he shouldn't have been on the field, but if tasing can be lethal, there's no need to be doing this at a baseball game.

    What happened to common sense?

    Another great thing about tasers may be that most police officers I meet seem to be out of shape, not all, but many. I support law enforcement; just an empirical observation from personal experience.
    Vette C6.r wrote: »
    Wow. Ace if you don't want to get tased stay in your damn set and not running around the field. SIMPLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So sick of bleeding hearts saying what they could or would do. Put a badge on and you go chase the guy then. You can shot him with rubber bands, throw chewing gum, boomerangs, nets or shoot spider webs that come out of your hands.

    What if the guy had a weapon or injured one of the players, groundsmen or fans then I am sure you would be saying "why didn't the police take care of the problem when they had a chance".

    I am sure you would make a great juror.

    That statement is EXACTLY why people aren't in prison.
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,985
    edited May 2010
    Another guy ran on the field last night.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20100504_Another_fan_on_Phillies_field__but_no_Taser_used.html

    I heard this morning that he had some kind of illegal drug in his pocket but I have been unable to find a news story to corroborate that.
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited May 2010
    Ugh!
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited May 2010
    Anything COULD be lethal. As has been mentioned at least a dozen times, multiple 200+ pounds guys jumping on top of a 17-year old could certainly be lethal, or at least break some bones.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • polrbehr
    polrbehr Posts: 2,842
    edited May 2010
    Face wrote: »
    The units are pretty idiot proof. Along with illustrations, many give verbal commands, guiding the user through the procedure.

    +1 there. I know because we have lots of 'em.

    (readers can decide for themselves which sentence above I am referring to :D:D:D)

    Seriously, I am AED certified, not really all that much to it. Very clear instructions with drawings, and yes, even voice prompts.
    So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?


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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,149
    edited May 2010
    If the police use any type of lethal or potentially lethal force to subdue a person, then they better make sure they have just cause. This includes multiple 200+ pound guys jumping on someone. If their lives or someone else's life is not in danger, then no lethal force should be applied.

    The debate these days is whether or not tasers are lethal. According to Amnesty International, the USA reached 334 people who died after being tasered between 2001 and August 2008. This number should give law enforcement pause as to their indiscriminate use. I agree that tasers are less-lethal (thus better) than other types of force used to subdue someone, but to say that it is non-lethal is a misnomer.

    My concern is that police use them indiscriminately. There are many videos out there that show their use when it simply wasn't called for.
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  • Demiurge
    Demiurge Posts: 10,874
    edited May 2010
    maximillian wrote: »
    The debate these days is whether or not tasers are lethal. According to Amnesty International, the USA reached 334 people who died after being tasered between 2001 and August 2008. This number should give law enforcement pause as to their indiscriminate use. I agree that tasers are less-lethal (thus better) than other types of force used to subdue someone, but to say that it is non-lethal is a misnomer.

    They are non-lethal. You cite a statistic that even without another important statistic, which is the number of people tasered overall in that time period, seems incredibly small over 7 years.

    I also have to challenge the notion that they're used indiscriminately. Have you ever been tasered by the police? I haven't. It's a great way to subdue people that need to be subdued. Rather than chase this kid around they took him down with non-lethal force.

    I'm glad this little puke was tasered. Not only does it make for hilarious video, he deserved it for wasting everyone's time and presenting an unknown danger to those on the field. If it wasn't a taser his **** was gonna get taken down like this:

    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6pzN-K49OMk&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6pzN-K49OMk&hl=en_US&fs=1&&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
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  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,985
    edited May 2010
    Oh, come on! I use a TASER on myself all the time! It's fun! Sometimes, when I'm having "happy time" with zombie boy, I have him squeeze that trigger and ZZZZRRRRTTT!!! I'm off in la-la land!

    Only problem is, sometimes I wake up and that pumpkin pie haircutted freak from "No Country For Old Men" is standing over me but he sounds like Abe Vigoda in "Joe Versus The Volcano" and he's shouting at me and asking me where his socks are. How the hell am I supposed to know? It gets really freaky when I wake up and I have a Little Bo Peep outfit on but I have no idea where the octopus came from, why it is cowering in the corner or why it has those sad "Precious Moments" eyes. Sometimes it sounds like it's faintly crying and whimpering to itself.



    I feel dirty
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  • hearingimpared
    hearingimpared Posts: 21,136
    edited May 2010
    Demiurge wrote: »
    They are non-lethal. You cite a statistic that even without another important statistic, which is the number of people tasered overall in that time period, seems incredibly small over 7 years.

    I also have to challenge the notion that they're used indiscriminately. Have you ever been tasered by the police? I haven't. It's a great way to subdue people that need to be subdued. Rather than chase this kid around they took him down with non-lethal force.

    I'm glad this little puke was tasered. Not only does it make for hilarious video, he deserved it for wasting everyone's time and presenting an unknown danger to those on the field. If it wasn't a taser his **** was gonna get taken down like this:

    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/6pzN-K49OMk&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6pzN-K49OMk&hl=en_US&fs=1&&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

    That was a picture perfect tackle. I'm surprized the goof ball didn't break his collar bone when he got slammed to the turf! Great vid Dave!
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  • Amherst
    Amherst Posts: 695
    edited May 2010
    zombie boy 2000 wrote: »
    I think you have a very limited concept of "world". Maybe you should consider taking the occasional stroll out of your Platonic cave every once in a while lest you find yourself choking on so many absolutes.

    Either that or you could eat a sandwich. I could care less.

    Stuck a nerve..eh. :rolleyes:
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  • zombie boy 2000
    zombie boy 2000 Posts: 6,641
    edited May 2010
    Amherst wrote: »
    Stuck a nerve..eh. :rolleyes:

    I suppose you have. Considering what used to be a fun and informative forum has suddenly devolved into a ultra-conservative circle jerk at nearly every opportunity.

    Please feel free to eat the biscuit and take your political agenda to any number of other forums.
    I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,052
    edited May 2010
    maximillian wrote: »
    The debate these days is whether or not tasers are lethal. According to Amnesty International, the USA reached 334 people who died after being tasered between 2001 and August 2008. This number should give law enforcement pause as to their indiscriminate use. I agree that tasers are less-lethal (thus better) than other types of force used to subdue someone, but to say that it is non-lethal is a misnomer.


    This chump deserved to get tased. He ran onto the field knowing it was wrong and accepted whatever consequences. If they would have used non-lethal means (say tackling him) and he would have broken his neck on the fall. What then? Are officers supposed to get down on their hands and knees and beg someone to "Please stop breaking the law> My hands our ties as to what i can do, so I am resorting to politely asking you to quit this unlawful behavior." (Yes, I am being sarcastic).

    You quote 334 deaths as a result of tasing. That is actually one of the most misleading facts to give. It only takes into account the number of deaths following tasing. It does not take into account pre-existing heart conditions, drugged up coke heads whose heart is racing 1,000 beats a minute, etc. Now, are we supposed to ask, "Excuse me before I tase you for resisting arrest and breaking the law, can I have a complete medical history including whether or not you have ingested an illegal drugs?" It's ludicrous really.

    You don't want to get tased by the cops, stay in your seat, eat some peanuts and enjoy the game. You buying a ticket (no matter how expensive) doesn't entitle anyone to break the law.
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  • maximillian
    maximillian Posts: 2,149
    edited May 2010
    Demiurge wrote: »
    They are non-lethal. You cite a statistic that even without another important statistic, which is the number of people tasered overall in that time period, seems incredibly small over 7 years.

    Tell that to the 334 people who have died. Here is just one example. There are MANY on youtube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iyBxSRE3_k
    Demiurge wrote: »
    They are
    I also have to challenge the notion that they're used indiscriminately. Have you ever been tasered by the police? I haven't. It's a great way to subdue people that need to be subdued. Rather than chase this kid around they took him down with non-lethal force.

    It's better to be tasered than shot, I will grant you that. But tasers are being used by police way too liberally. Since there is evidence that people have died (and quite a bit of people too) then I would just ask for a little restraint.

    There are LOADS of videos of people on youtube being tasered for minor things. Used indiscriminately??? Check out the New Orleans cop behind the fence in this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jvhp4iZFd0

    Or this officer that couldn't handle a 72 year old woman:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv91_VC2L3w&feature=fvw

    Or this guy who is obeying the police officer's instructions, but why not taser him anyways:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjM2d20He2Q

    Or why not tase a blind woman:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDbdhv_cl1E

    Or a woman already in the police station:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtG-KZJ_luY


    Then there is this woman that was tasered for failing to obey the cop's instructions during a routine traffic stop. BTW, if you read the whole story about why she was even pulled over you can see that the cop was wrong on so many levels. She failed to follow the officer's instructions, but there is NO way she deserved to be tasered.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7uudtvX8yo

    There are many, many more examples on youtube. There are many cases also mentioned in this article:

    http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/tasers-potentially-lethal-and-easy-abuse-20081216


    Again, I don't think taser's should NOT be used. I think they are a great alternative to being shot. I would rather be tasered than shot. However, law enforcement shouldn't use them as liberally as they currently do, especially since so many people have died. There is a definite threat level that must be achieved before a police officer pulls his firearm. This is because there are serious consequences to its use. Law enforcement currently do not regard a taser in such a manner. I would think that they would have some guidelines for the use of a taster


    And yes I think someday I may be tased. Again, youtube has all sorts of videos where simply giving a verbal "no" to an officer equals non compliance which results in a tasering. Check out this shopper at Bestbuy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdCUdR8qNF4
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  • shawn474
    shawn474 Posts: 3,052
    edited May 2010
    maximillian wrote: »
    However, law enforcement shouldn't use them as liberally as they currently do, especially since so many people have died.

    And how liberally do you THINK they use them? That's pretty arbitrary don't you think? Think about how many routine traffic stops, reports and citations are issued daily and then think how many times a taser is discharged. I would GUARANTEE that the ratio is minute. So what exactly is liberal use? Sure there are instances where it is used and should not have been. But, I would say that there are probably many more times where tey were justified to use them according to policy, but did not. You guys make it sound like these are vigilante cops who take every opportunity to discharge their taser to get their rocks off.
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited May 2010
    maximillian wrote: »
    Tell that to the 334 people who have died. Here is just one example. There are MANY on youtube:

    As stated before, that stat is meaningless.

    Hell, according to this study, 126 kids died from playing sports in a 10 year period, does that mean you can reasonably call recreational sports a "lethal activity?" No, it means given a large enough sample set, **** happens.
    Over a 10-yr period, July 1983-June 1993, nontraumatic sports deaths were reported in 126 high school athletes (115 males and 11 females) and 34 college athletes (31 males and 3 females).
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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