Petition for support of Larry, David and Hermitism....
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Comments
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Yay seems petty looking at it
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Let me see if I can offer some clarification. I watch the forum daily, checking in at least three times a day, seven days a week. I usually find all of the questionable posts and simply delete them as lapses in good judgement can happen. I also try and help whoever has asked a question or has a problem I might be able to advise. In some cases I wait a day or so if it might be a situation that another member could participate. In this unfortunate case I completely missed the posts that happened near the middle of last year. Two of these posts happened in a very popular thread that has more than 34 pages and seemed to be completely harmless. Not dealing with a potentially volatile subject I was more casual in policing it. However, the person at the receiving end of the insult found the posts and, as his right, complained to myself and Ken C. and was extremely upset. I daresay if any of us were in the same situation we would act the same way, maybe even more offended.
This person found two additional missed insults from two different members that further inflicted pain. I can't say how I missed these, only that they were, perhaps, more subtle in nature and I just didn't catch them. Granted, if I had been more observant and found them when they happened all of this wouldn't have happened. The four members have been placed in a status where they can read everyone's posts but the only person who sees their posts is me. This is a temporary punishment in which two of the members are halfway through and the remaining two will be limited for 30 days.
This has been an unfortunate chain of events that could have been prevented at many different levels. -
Yay, of course.
Only an ingrate would vote otherwise. Like so many others, I have benefited greatly from the many contributions to this Forum of both Larry and Jesse.
Oops, perhaps, I shall be banned for the above expression of my judgement and opinion. No offense intended.
Family Room, Innuos Statement streamer (Roon Core) with Morrow Audio USB cable to McIntosh MC 2700 pre with DC2 Digital Audio Module; AQ Sky XLRs to CAT 600.2 dualmono amp, Morrow Elite Speaker Cables to NOLA Baby Grand Reference Gold 3 speakers. Power source for all components: Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One with dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel.
Exercise Room, Innuos Streamer via Cat 6 cable connection to PS Audio PerfectWave MkII DAC w/Bridge II, AQ King Cobra RCAs to Perreaux PMF3150 amp (fully restored and upgraded by Jeffrey Jackson, Precision Audio Labs), Supra Rondo 4x2.5 Speaker Cables to SDA 1Cs (Vr3 Mods Xovers and other mods.), Dreadnaught with Supra Rondo 4x2.5 interconnect cables by Vr3 Mods. Power for each component from dedicated 20 amp circuit to main panel, except Innuos Statement powered from Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One. -
No warnings of any kind, what happened to getting them?Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
Yay.
I don’t know what is hoped to be accomplished with this ban, but I’m sure there is an intended outcome, right? I mean beyond just a punitive reaction...?"Conservative Libertarians love the country, progressive leftists love the government." - Andrew Wilkow
“Human beings are born with different capacities. If they are free, they are not equal. And if they are equal, they are not free.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn -
After reading the peers testimony, I'm on the yea team!!Some final words,
"If you keep banging your head against the wall,
you're going to have headaches."
Warren -
KennethSwauger wrote: »Let me see if I can offer some clarification. I watch the forum daily, checking in at least three times a day, seven days a week. I usually find all of the questionable posts and simply delete them as lapses in good judgement can happen. I also try and help whoever has asked a question or has a problem I might be able to advise. In some cases I wait a day or so if it might be a situation that another member could participate. In this unfortunate case I completely missed the posts that happened near the middle of last year. Two of these posts happened in a very popular thread that has more than 34 pages and seemed to be completely harmless. Not dealing with a potentially volatile subject I was more casual in policing it. However, the person at the receiving end of the insult found the posts and, as his right, complained to myself and Ken C. and was extremely upset. I daresay if any of us were in the same situation we would act the same way, maybe even more offended.
This person found two additional missed insults from two different members that further inflicted pain. I can't say how I missed these, only that they were, perhaps, more subtle in nature and I just didn't catch them. Granted, if I had been more observant and found them when they happened all of this wouldn't have happened. The four members have been placed in a status where they can read everyone's posts but the only person who sees their posts is me. This is a temporary punishment in which two of the members are halfway through and the remaining two will be limited for 30 days.
This has been an unfortunate chain of events that could have been prevented at many different levels.
As a moderator from a different site I just have one question. It has nothing to do with your decision.
Why is all of their previous posting history removed?
You suspended their posting privileges but you also removed all of their past content. I feel removing all of their past content actually penalizes all of the site members since there are many good contributions they have made that are now gone. It seems odd to me that this would occur."Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." -
$68 to bring them back!
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KennethSwauger wrote: »Let me see if I can offer some clarification. I watch the forum daily, checking in at least three times a day, seven days a week. I usually find all of the questionable posts and simply delete them as lapses in good judgement can happen. I also try and help whoever has asked a question or has a problem I might be able to advise. In some cases I wait a day or so if it might be a situation that another member could participate. In this unfortunate case I completely missed the posts that happened near the middle of last year. Two of these posts happened in a very popular thread that has more than 34 pages and seemed to be completely harmless. Not dealing with a potentially volatile subject I was more casual in policing it. However, the person at the receiving end of the insult found the posts and, as his right, complained to myself and Ken C. and was extremely upset. I daresay if any of us were in the same situation we would act the same way, maybe even more offended.
This person found two additional missed insults from two different members that further inflicted pain. I can't say how I missed these, only that they were, perhaps, more subtle in nature and I just didn't catch them. Granted, if I had been more observant and found them when they happened all of this wouldn't have happened. The four members have been placed in a status where they can read everyone's posts but the only person who sees their posts is me. This is a temporary punishment in which two of the members are halfway through and the remaining two will be limited for 30 days.
This has been an unfortunate chain of events that could have been prevented at many different levels.
As a moderator from a different site I just have one question. It has nothing to do with your decision.
Why is all of their previous posting history removed?
You suspended their posting privileges but you also removed all of their past content. I feel removing all of their past content actually penalizes all of the site members since there are many good contributions they have made that are now gone. It seems odd to me that this would occur.
Their posts/threads will reappear once they are done with their vacations.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
KennethSwauger wrote: »Let me see if I can offer some clarification. I watch the forum daily, checking in at least three times a day, seven days a week. I usually find all of the questionable posts and simply delete them as lapses in good judgement can happen. I also try and help whoever has asked a question or has a problem I might be able to advise. In some cases I wait a day or so if it might be a situation that another member could participate. In this unfortunate case I completely missed the posts that happened near the middle of last year. Two of these posts happened in a very popular thread that has more than 34 pages and seemed to be completely harmless. Not dealing with a potentially volatile subject I was more casual in policing it. However, the person at the receiving end of the insult found the posts and, as his right, complained to myself and Ken C. and was extremely upset. I daresay if any of us were in the same situation we would act the same way, maybe even more offended.
This person found two additional missed insults from two different members that further inflicted pain. I can't say how I missed these, only that they were, perhaps, more subtle in nature and I just didn't catch them. Granted, if I had been more observant and found them when they happened all of this wouldn't have happened. The four members have been placed in a status where they can read everyone's posts but the only person who sees their posts is me. This is a temporary punishment in which two of the members are halfway through and the remaining two will be limited for 30 days.
This has been an unfortunate chain of events that could have been prevented at many different levels.
As a moderator from a different site I just have one question. It has nothing to do with your decision.
Why is all of their previous posting history removed?
You suspended their posting privileges but you also removed all of their past content. I feel removing all of their past content actually penalizes all of the site members since there are many good contributions they have made that are now gone. It seems odd to me that this would occur.
Their posts/threads will reappear once they are done with their vacations.
I'm sure that's a Vanilla "feature." -
When someone is placed in this status it is as if everyone has placed them on the ignore list except me. This means other members are not able to read any of their posts during this period. We felt this was preferable to an outright banning, which replaces their avatar with a "banned" version.
Their previous posting history will be back to normal once their status has changed.
As to why no warning, this punishment is a warning, the next infraction is a removal. -
So... you guys reserve the right to ban at any time, for any reason, regardless of time frame.
So if someone looks at a post that is ten years old, finds it offensive today, you reserve the right to ban the poster for a ten year old post? If that is the case you may as well shut it down now, as we all have crossed that shifting line in the sand at some point.
I realize 8 months is more recent than 10 years, but it does pose a legitimate question... what is the statute of limitations, and in such a case, absent any other violations, why not call attention to the post in question, remove or change them as needed and warn the poster rather than the heavy handed manner applied?
I also feel we need to have the rules and guidelines rewritten, as the old ones appear to no longer apply.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
KennethSwauger wrote: »Let me see if I can offer some clarification. I watch the forum daily, checking in at least three times a day, seven days a week. I usually find all of the questionable posts and simply delete them as lapses in good judgement can happen. I also try and help whoever has asked a question or has a problem I might be able to advise. In some cases I wait a day or so if it might be a situation that another member could participate. In this unfortunate case I completely missed the posts that happened near the middle of last year. Two of these posts happened in a very popular thread that has more than 34 pages and seemed to be completely harmless. Not dealing with a potentially volatile subject I was more casual in policing it. However, the person at the receiving end of the insult found the posts and, as his right, complained to myself and Ken C. and was extremely upset. I daresay if any of us were in the same situation we would act the same way, maybe even more offended.
This person found two additional missed insults from two different members that further inflicted pain. I can't say how I missed these, only that they were, perhaps, more subtle in nature and I just didn't catch them. Granted, if I had been more observant and found them when they happened all of this wouldn't have happened. The four members have been placed in a status where they can read everyone's posts but the only person who sees their posts is me. This is a temporary punishment in which two of the members are halfway through and the remaining two will be limited for 30 days.
This has been an unfortunate chain of events that could have been prevented at many different levels.
So is it policy to go back in time and assess penalties? How far back? What type of punishment did you get for dropping the ball? I would think you should be held accountable as a moderator for missing something so egregious it required a 7 month after the fact ban. What's fair is fair in my book.
I think since the policy has obviously changed it needs to be added to the forum rules. So that we know at anytime someone can file a complaint from things way in the past. It's a terrible way to run an on-line forum.
Just my .02c
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I trust that what Ken is saying is accurate; it seems none of know what the posts in question were exactly. If they were as egregious as implied, and it was simply an oversight, a temporary ban is enough to appease all parties involved, no? Perhaps we all need to take a step back and trust Ken on this - he, in my opinion, has always operated fairly. Benefit of the doubt here that what was said may have been more confrontational and suggestive that I may have remembered.....I hope all 3 come back and contribute in the same way they always have. They’re assets to this forum.
All that said, I still vote to lift their bans immediately....Shawn
AVR: Marantz SR-5011
Center Channel: Polk LsiM706c
Front: Polk LsiM703
Rear: LSI fx
Subwoofer: SVS 20-39pci
Television: Samsung UN58NU7100FXZA
DVD Player: Sony PS4 -
My big question is why and how far back are they willing to go to impose punishment. It's ridiculous to go back 7 months, unless, again, it was so egregious that they couldn't ignore it 7 months later. I also feel if it was so egregious someone on the other side of the curtain (Polk HQ) needs to be held accountable for letting such an (alleged) egregious response or responses slip through the cracks. Lord knows they don't miss the petty stuff.
My final .02c on this subject
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
To remind everyone this is an internet forum and if you can't handle some textual abuse then grow a pair or go home and cry to your mama. Of course there needs to some boundaries. Remember the old golden rule.
"Sticks and stones may brake my bones but names will never hurt me."
A good rule to live by. Because of my disability I've had some really nasty things said behind my back and to my face that I care not to repeat, I chose not to be that hateful.
Off Topic:Given the new corporate tax structure too,
Post edited by [Deleted User] on“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain -
KennethSwauger wrote: »When someone is placed in this status it is as if everyone has placed them on the ignore list except me. This means other members are not able to read any of their posts during this period. We felt this was preferable to an outright banning, which replaces their avatar with a "banned" version.
Their previous posting history will be back to normal once their status has changed.
As to why no warning, this punishment is a warning, the next infraction is a removal.
It must be the way Vanilla is configured. The software we use only removes content if a spam ban is issued/used. A 3 day, 7 day, 14 day or 30 day warning never removes members content, even permanent bans don't. We have changed software providers numerous times and they have all work the same way.
Gotta love Vanilla.... Temporary warnings that penalize all site members, how nice...
Such is life.
"Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Light
a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." -
As to why no warning, this punishment is a warning, the next infraction is a removal.
Makes sense... if a naughty was comitted...Some final words,
"If you keep banging your head against the wall,
you're going to have headaches."
Warren -
Yay.
In before close...
Where’s the KABOOM?!?! There’s supposed to be an Earth shattering KABOOM!!! -
Maybe there should be a plan B in place "Before the whole house goes up in flames " -Jim Morrison. Just sayin'Post edited by [Deleted User] on
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I'm fairly new to this forum, do not know Larry personally, but have quickly admired his craftsmanship and generous contributions to this forum.
Larry's Rings is an example of an enthusiast that takes his own time, manufactures something that is of benefit of all. I just wish I would have joined sooner to take advantage of that opportunity. Who among us would take that time and energy to do that? @gimpod is another example of that generosity.
Come on, I say "yay" and request immediate appeal to the circuit court of appeals...
Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
Wow, we all know what good people these people are! Yay we need them back.
2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
I vote for a Yay as well.
And as others have brought up, there should be a statue of limitations on how far back you can go with these. This should be on the forum guidelines as well.
If someone takes offense at something, they should report it immediately so that it can be addressed. If something is going back 8-10 months, that seems a little long before putting in a complaint against another forum member. I would think a week would be the limitation if you want to file some sort of grievance.
I've been on this forum for a while and while I don't contribute that often, I am on almost daily and read most of the discussions here. I don't know what specific discussions are tied to this ban, but I do know the "personalities" of the players who were banned. These are good folks who are more often provoked when they respond more harshly.
It's like high school (or college, or work, or whatever). Not everyone gets along all the time. You may not even like certain people and when you come in contact with them, because they rub you the wrong way, you say a few things. You MOVE ON. That's life. You can all me every name in the book, it honestly doesn't bother me. I'm comfortable in my own skin and don't let others define my value.
I hope these guys come back after their vacation. If not, they will be missed.Speakers
Energy RC-70 Mains, Energy RC-LRC Center, Energy RC-R (x4) Rear Channels, Energy RC-R (x2) Front Effects
Polk 5jr+
Polk SDA 2B
Polk SDS 3.1TL
Equipment
Panamax 5510 Re-generator Power Conditioner
Yamaha RX-V3800 Receiver
Digital Sources: Sony CDP-X339ES CD Player, HHB CDR830 BurnIt Professional CD Recorder, Sony PS3, Oppo DV-983H DVD Player
Analog Sources: Sony TC-K890ES Cassette, Nakamichi DR-1 Cassette, Technics SL-7 Turntable -
You said 3 things - counting is hard....I just realized....I said I was going to say something and move on. I said 2 things darn it. Italians were never good at counting, except when it comes to meatballs. Anyway, I'm out.
comment comment comment comment. bitchy. -
I feel like a bit of a shadow has been cast over CP today. Still moving forward as I got my 1st TT today after many many years. Just not feelin it as my heart goes out to those put on vacation. Godspeed and come back soon!!!Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
I think that some like to forget that this is Polk's forum. KenCustomerService posted this thread back in May of 2017, and he made it clear that what he posted is not up for debate. The rules are the rules.
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/177647/respect/p1Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2 -
In the end, this is Polk’s sandbox. If we don’t approve, we can leave. Not much else to it I’m afraid.
I hope Larry doesn’t leave, he’s been a good member.
This is just a reminder, their forum their rules.Magico, JL, Emm, ARC Ref 10 line, ARC Ref 10 phono, VPI, Lyra, Boulder, AQ Wel, SRA Scuttle Rack, Bluesound -
In the end, this is Polk’s sandbox. If we don’t approve, we can leave. Not much else to it I’m afraid.
I hope Larry doesn’t leave, he’s been a good member.
This is just a reminder, their forum their rules.
I agree, and, there is discussion ongoing about possibly starting a similar forum disassociated from a corporate entity that would be less restrictive. Until then we must abide by their decisions no matter how we feel about them. -
Riiiiiiiiick!!
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I agree, and, there is discussion ongoing about possibly starting a similar forum disassociated from a corporate entity that would be less restrictive. Until then we must abide by their decisions no matter how we feel about them.
That’s been done at least a couple times in my time here; people got upset over the “corporate rules” or wanted a space to speak freely about subjects not allowed here. I will say they lasted for a couple months, it was fun while it lasted and the majority migrated back here. I am sure there will be some that decide to leave for greener pastures but the fact is this is still one of the best forums out there.
Shawn
AVR: Marantz SR-5011
Center Channel: Polk LsiM706c
Front: Polk LsiM703
Rear: LSI fx
Subwoofer: SVS 20-39pci
Television: Samsung UN58NU7100FXZA
DVD Player: Sony PS4
![[Deleted User]](https://w8.vanillicon.com/83b82048d67877ca27bbc25d5d38f9d3_100.png)
This discussion has been closed.