SDA
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200k spent just to play a 20 dollar chunk of black plastic...The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Listening to the samples given, I do understand where he's coming from. I just don't happen to subscribe to the view that trying to fix this during the mix is the best way to go. Especially with QSound (Yuck!). I prefer the speakers to make that magic. If Polk has further refined the technology, all the better, as long as it's passive.2-channelBelles 22A Pre, Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Marantz SA8005, Pro-Ject RPM-10 Turntable, Pro-Ject Phono Box DS3B, Polk Audio Legend L800's, AudioQuest Cable throughout.
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You guys are ruthless, could be the nicest dude you ever met.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
You guys are ruthless, could be the nicest dude you ever met.
Most audiophiles are nice people. It's the ones without a firm grasp of the subject matter that should be avoided.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
This one is getting to be fun.
I don't care for SSA's, this is why I only have 6 sets.
Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
I actually just had a nice phone conversation with an audiophile from another forum
Turns out, he is a very nice guy.
I, on the other hand, was starin' at my shoes, avoidin' eye contact. On the phone.
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So these 2 guys on a Polk forum are completely right, let me get this, because they talked to a Guy/s that created SDA to market a speaker to sell and make a profit for a company?
I suppose that ends the discussion.
Do you even get a hint of Fanboy bias ever?
The term "fanboy", which connotes irrational obsession, certainly couldn't apply to me, as I just replaced the SDA SRSs in my home theater with LSi15s, replaced the SDA 1Bs in my master bedroom system with a Bluesound 2.1 sub/satellite system, and replaced the SDA CRS+s in my home office with a Surroundbar IHT.
Whenever I hear someone speak of SDA "adding" something to the music signal, that immediately identifies them as someone totally ignorant of how SDAs work and more importantly, of how stereophonic sound works.
It is conventional stereo speakers which add comb filtering distortion to the signal. SDA is a passive subtractive process that greatly diminishes that distortion. In addition to the fundamental flaw of comb filtering, there is two channel stereo's inherent design flaw of using only two speakers. The original design specification for stereo required a minimum of three channels: left, center, and right. The center channel was abandoned because of the limitations of the recording media. There was no economical way to manufacture vinyl records with three channels.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
And let's not even get into the fact that for decades now, audio has been mixed with automotive sound systems and headphones in mind as they are the most common methods of listening to music.
Anyway, it is hard to have a rational and logical conversation with someone who is so entrenched in their thinking that they absolutely *KNOW* what they are saying is correct even being shown definitive evidence to the contrary."Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."
"Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip -
This one is getting to be fun.
I don't care for SSA's, this is why I only have 6 sets.
Should have read SDA's.Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
What about the echo or reverb effect that is heard on some recordings? Isn't that "added" by the SDA ?
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What about the echo or reverb effect that is heard on some recordings? Isn't that "added" by the SDA ?
How can a completely passive system add anything? SDA is a subtractive process. I would bet the reverb, echo is there all along, the inneraural crosstalk cancellation makes it more apparent in the recording.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I think he's talking about the side by side tweeter models.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
How would side by side tweeters add echo or reverb that's not in the recording?
I don't follow?
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
There maybe some weird phasing issues with the earlier SDA's on some recordings. But phasing doesn't equate to echo or reverb being added to the recording (atleast in my mind)
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
I think he's talking about the side by side tweeter models.
Me? No, I had SRS 2s.
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I haven't heard those models personally but I've seen people say that the SDA tweeter adds a phasey reverb like effect, that's why everyone disconnects them.afterburnt wrote: »They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.
Village Idiot of Club Polk -
DarqueKnight wrote: »
So these 2 guys on a Polk forum are completely right, let me get this, because they talked to a Guy/s that created SDA to market a speaker to sell and make a profit for a company?
I suppose that ends the discussion.
Do you even get a hint of Fanboy bias ever?
The term "fanboy", which connotes irrational obsession, certainly couldn't apply to me, as I just replaced the SDA SRSs in my home theater with LSi15s, replaced the SDA 1Bs in my master bedroom system with a Bluesound 2.1 sub/satellite system, and replaced the SDA CRS+s in my home office with a Surroundbar IHT.
Whenever I hear someone speak of SDA "adding" something to the music signal, that immediately identifies them as someone totally ignorant of how SDAs work and more importantly, of how stereophonic sound works.
It is conventional stereo speakers which add comb filtering distortion to the signal. SDA is a passive subtractive process that greatly diminishes that distortion. In addition to the fundamental flaw of comb filtering, there is two channel stereo's inherent design flaw of using only two speakers. The original design specification for stereo required a minimum of three channels: left, center, and right. The center channel was abandoned because of the limitations of the recording media. There was no economical way to manufacture vinyl records with three channels.
Sorry about the "Fanboy" comment truly!
I think we are simply as odds with what is being done with the SDA effect.
The final mastering or mixing stage was done with those flaws inherent to the sound and they used that as the determiner for the final sound.
Yes, SDA is not actually adding anything, but merely creating a false sound stage that was never intended. Same with how headphones work.
Since they mix and master with normal 2 channel speakers being used, that becomes the defacto standard as to what size the soundstage will be and where instruments will be placed.
I guarantee you, that Piano was 5 foot wide not 15 foot.
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Now you tell me, searching Google I was totally confused on when the Social Security Admin. got into audio
Yep, my name really is Bob.
Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub. -
Sorry about the "Fanboy" comment truly!
I think we are simply as odds with what is being done with the SDA effect.
The final mastering or mixing stage was done with those flaws inherent to the sound and they used that as the determiner for the final sound.
Yes, SDA is not actually adding anything, but merely creating a false sound stage that was never intended. Same with how headphones work.
Since they mix and master with normal 2 channel speakers being used, that becomes the defacto standard as to what size the soundstage will be and where instruments will be placed.
I guarantee you, that Piano was 5 foot wide not 15 foot.
Try again
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Did you personally experience the echoes? Which recordings? I have not experienced them, but I'd like to hear them.
2-channelBelles 22A Pre, Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2, Marantz SA8005, Pro-Ject RPM-10 Turntable, Pro-Ject Phono Box DS3B, Polk Audio Legend L800's, AudioQuest Cable throughout. -
They're long gone but both my wife and I noticed it. Don't recall what recording they were. I enjoyed them for two years but I've moved on to Nolas , that I like a whole lot more. To each their own !
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Did you personally experience the echoes? Which recordings? I have not experienced them, but I'd like to hear them.
Some music, it is enjoyable, other stuff it does sound weird or unnatural.
If everyone would quit getting their panties in a bind, I think we can all come up with dozens of songs or sounds that appear unusual or unnatural.
Its a fun effect, but I find some acoustic music that has some reverb to sound odd or like echoey sounding, so I get what that Tforn guy is saying.
Not everything sounds good with it. -
It's not an "effect".
Not everything sounds good on conventional speakers, your point?
Point is you don't understand conceptually how SDA's work. Or atleast everything you've posted demonstrates you don't have a solid grasp.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »
So these 2 guys on a Polk forum are completely right, let me get this, because they talked to a Guy/s that created SDA to market a speaker to sell and make a profit for a company?
I suppose that ends the discussion.
Do you even get a hint of Fanboy bias ever?
The term "fanboy", which connotes irrational obsession, certainly couldn't apply to me, as I just replaced the SDA SRSs in my home theater with LSi15s, replaced the SDA 1Bs in my master bedroom system with a Bluesound 2.1 sub/satellite system, and replaced the SDA CRS+s in my home office with a Surroundbar IHT.
Whenever I hear someone speak of SDA "adding" something to the music signal, that immediately identifies them as someone totally ignorant of how SDAs work and more importantly, of how stereophonic sound works.
It is conventional stereo speakers which add comb filtering distortion to the signal. SDA is a passive subtractive process that greatly diminishes that distortion. In addition to the fundamental flaw of comb filtering, there is two channel stereo's inherent design flaw of using only two speakers. The original design specification for stereo required a minimum of three channels: left, center, and right. The center channel was abandoned because of the limitations of the recording media. There was no economical way to manufacture vinyl records with three channels.
Sorry about the "Fanboy" comment truly!
I think we are simply as odds with what is being done with the SDA effect.
The final mastering or mixing stage was done with those flaws inherent to the sound and they used that as the determiner for the final sound.
Yes, SDA is not actually adding anything, but merely creating a false sound stage that was never intended. Same with how headphones work.
Since they mix and master with normal 2 channel speakers being used, that becomes the defacto standard as to what size the soundstage will be and where instruments will be placed.
I guarantee you, that Piano was 5 foot wide not 15 foot.
It's amusing watching you back peddle trying desperately to wiggle out of the hole you dug.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
It's not an "effect".
Not everything sounds good on conventional speakers, your point?
Point is you don't understand conceptually how SDA's work. Or atleast everything you've posted demonstrates you don't have a solid grasp.
H9
Wait, you are the guy that tells everyone they know nothing, and are wrong all the time....right? -
The flaws aren't in the recording, the flaws present themselves during playback; playback on stereo (left and right) speakers. Meaning the flaw is in the process of listening. Recordings enhance or diminish the phenomenon with ALL playback speakers. It has nothing to do with the mastering or mixing the recording.
That's what you don't seem to understand, and why I am sure you don't know what SDA is conceptually.
You can keep saying you do, but your words say you don't.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Inneraural crosstalk CANNOT be embedded or removed from a recording since the phenomenon is a product of the playback environment of stereo speakers.
You give her too much credit. She has demonstrated nothing but lack of understanding.
H9
P.s. it's analogous to saying the light is too bright, plug your ears."Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Brock, I'm pretty sure she is agreeing with you. The flaws present in playback are also present in the recording studio if listening to monitors instead of headphones. She is arguing that those issues are embedded in the recording and taken account for by the engineer DUE to the recording process. If headphones are used, the engineer is then using a binaural process to align objects in the stage.
I think she gets very well what SDA is but is having trouble articulating her philosophical issues to you.
Exactly! finally.
If they hear it in the studio, it is accounted for.
By using the SDA "effect" one is effectively applying another fix onto something that was previously accounted for in the studio.
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Exactly! finally.
If they hear it in the studio, it is accounted for.
By using the SDA "effect" one is effectively applying another fix onto something that was previously accounted for in the studio.
No it's not!
SDA's aren't fixing anything, they are exploiting a naturally occurring flaw in stereo playback.
Sheesh,,,,,,people are.................
Anyway
Dead horse, beat vigorously.
H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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