Dreadnaught build question

So after reading like a bazillion posts I've decided to go ahead and get one. Since they don't sell these on eBay and I hate waiting... I'm considering building one myself but I have a few questions:

1. Is the 1000VA one by AL available anywhere?
2. Does it matter if one IC cable is longer than the other ( I'm assuming, like speaker wire, they need to be the same but...)
3. What's the copper looking stuff lining the inside and what is it's function?

Thanks!
SDA 1C's
B&K Reference 50 Pre
B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
Cambridge Audio DVD 99
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Comments

  • agfrostagfrost Posts: 2,119
    1) No. You could call them and ask, but they're batch-built only by request. They should have the 800VA transformer on the shelf and that will get you nearly 100% of the way to the 1000VA's performance.

    2) Not sure here. Symmetry appeals to my brain (and mine are same-length), but I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't critical. I've heard some say that equal-length speaker cable is not critical, but most go for symmetry.

    3) Some put down copper sheeting, as extra (RFI?) insulation. If you put yours in a metal box, I'm fairly certain that the copper is unnecessary. Pretty bling, though!
    Jay
    SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Marantz DV-9500 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8
    Micro Seiki DQ-50 * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
    Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 9,618
    edited December 2017
    Others used Dynamat extreme instead of copper even in a metal enclosure.
    I believe you must minimum order 25 to get the 1000va
  • Figures... I can't find reference to the Y236906 on their website any more though they have several 800 VA models. Looks like the Y236905 may be the closest currently available. Thoughts??
    SDA 1C's
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
  • MrBuhlMrBuhl Posts: 2,234
    edited December 2017
    Y236906 is your huckleberry! Last one on table below.
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel ,Dodd 50W Dual Mono EL34 Amp, MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp, Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded), A/L 1000VA Dreadnought, Canare 4s11 SDA cable, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Vincent Pho-700 Phono Pre, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / Pangea & Signal Cable MP power
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
    LA Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp, Polk LSIM705, Marantz DV8300 SACD, Audioengine B1, MIT AVt3 Speaker & RCA Cables, PS Audio Power Punch power cables

    Dodd Mid Level Preamp ("on the bench" w/Charlie)
    Polk SDA1c modded
    Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Yamaha YP-D6
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    McCormack DNA-1 Power Drive Amp
    Eastern Electric Minimax CDP
    Infinity RS5b Speakers

  • MrBuhlMrBuhl Posts: 2,234
    s8cnu1fwb8oy.png
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel ,Dodd 50W Dual Mono EL34 Amp, MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp, Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded), A/L 1000VA Dreadnought, Canare 4s11 SDA cable, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Vincent Pho-700 Phono Pre, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / Pangea & Signal Cable MP power
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
    LA Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp, Polk LSIM705, Marantz DV8300 SACD, Audioengine B1, MIT AVt3 Speaker & RCA Cables, PS Audio Power Punch power cables

    Dodd Mid Level Preamp ("on the bench" w/Charlie)
    Polk SDA1c modded
    Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Yamaha YP-D6
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    McCormack DNA-1 Power Drive Amp
    Eastern Electric Minimax CDP
    Infinity RS5b Speakers

  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 2,374
    MrBuhl wrote: »
    your huckleberry!
    Just......no.
  • MrBuhlMrBuhl Posts: 2,234
    ^^ oh yea ^^ SCORE!
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel ,Dodd 50W Dual Mono EL34 Amp, MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp, Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded), A/L 1000VA Dreadnought, Canare 4s11 SDA cable, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Vincent Pho-700 Phono Pre, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / Pangea & Signal Cable MP power
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
    LA Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp, Polk LSIM705, Marantz DV8300 SACD, Audioengine B1, MIT AVt3 Speaker & RCA Cables, PS Audio Power Punch power cables

    Dodd Mid Level Preamp ("on the bench" w/Charlie)
    Polk SDA1c modded
    Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Yamaha YP-D6
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    McCormack DNA-1 Power Drive Amp
    Eastern Electric Minimax CDP
    Infinity RS5b Speakers

  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 9,490
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures, Simaudio 780D DAC
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Modwright LS100, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers
  • gimpodgimpod Posts: 1,738
    edited December 2017
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Figures... I can't find reference to the Y236906 on their website any more though they have several 800 VA models. Looks like the Y236905 may be the closest currently available. Thoughts??

    That wont work, The primary and secondary winding's need to be the same voltages, a 1:1 isolation transformer.

    The Y23 236906 transformer is still listed on there site You may have to buy direct.

    He's right no one is carrying the Avel Lindberg Y236906 isolation transformer, Parts Express use to but not anymore unless you call and maybe special order it.
    "If you design software that any moron can use only morons will use it." JMO
    ---
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain

    Unfortunately for most of us we only get to experience the first day and then we can't even remember it.
    ---
    "Close only counts in Horseshoes, Hand Grenades and Thermonuclear Weapons."
    "50% Why... That's almost half."
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  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 23,654
    I don't think you could ever get the Y236906 anywhere but direct. I know back when I was looking no vendor carried it. It had to be bought from AL.

    OP, just call AL direct for the Y236906.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • MrBuhlMrBuhl Posts: 2,234
    ^^ that's exactly how I got mine as well ^^ Direct from A/L
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel ,Dodd 50W Dual Mono EL34 Amp, MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp, Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded), A/L 1000VA Dreadnought, Canare 4s11 SDA cable, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Vincent Pho-700 Phono Pre, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / Pangea & Signal Cable MP power
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
    LA Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp, Polk LSIM705, Marantz DV8300 SACD, Audioengine B1, MIT AVt3 Speaker & RCA Cables, PS Audio Power Punch power cables

    Dodd Mid Level Preamp ("on the bench" w/Charlie)
    Polk SDA1c modded
    Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Yamaha YP-D6
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    McCormack DNA-1 Power Drive Amp
    Eastern Electric Minimax CDP
    Infinity RS5b Speakers

  • Oh. Some how my eyes wandered right past it. Thanks!
    SDA 1C's
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
  • Does this thing get very hot during operation?
    SDA 1C's
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
  • MrBuhlMrBuhl Posts: 2,234
    Not at all.
    VA HT HK AVR20II, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Polk Audio RC80i / Polk Audio CSi3, 60" Panasonic Plasma, Nordost / Signal Cable A2 / Wireworld / Pangea / Magic Power
    VA 2 Channel ,Dodd 50W Dual Mono EL34 Amp, MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp, Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded), A/L 1000VA Dreadnought, Canare 4s11 SDA cable, Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD, Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Vincent Pho-700 Phono Pre, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / Pangea & Signal Cable MP power
    Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
    LA Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp, Polk LSIM705, Marantz DV8300 SACD, Audioengine B1, MIT AVt3 Speaker & RCA Cables, PS Audio Power Punch power cables

    Dodd Mid Level Preamp ("on the bench" w/Charlie)
    Polk SDA1c modded
    Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
    Soundcraftsmen PCR800
    Yamaha YP-D6
    Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's
    Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
    McCormack DNA-1 Power Drive Amp
    Eastern Electric Minimax CDP
    Infinity RS5b Speakers

  • westmassguywestmassguy Posts: 5,992
    audioluvr wrote: »
    So after reading like a bazillion posts I've decided to go ahead and get one. Since they don't sell these on eBay and I hate waiting... I'm considering building one myself but I have a few questions:

    1. Is the 1000VA one by AL available anywhere?
    2. Does it matter if one IC cable is longer than the other ( I'm assuming, like speaker wire, they need to be the same but...)
    3. What's the copper looking stuff lining the inside and what is it's function?

    Thanks!
    1. No, Special order only.
    2. Possibly, but most likely no as long as you're using quality wire.
    3. The case I use, which you probably saw in one of the threads, is Cast Aluminum. Aluminum is great for RF shielding. The Copper adds EMI shielding, which is different. The Copper Foil MUST be separated from the Aluminum by etching primer and several top coats of Enamel. Galvanic corrosion will result if you don't.
    Home Theater/2 Channel:
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    Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
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  • delkaldelkal Posts: 194
    edited December 2017
    audioluvr wrote: »
    2. Does it matter if one IC cable is longer than the other ( I'm assuming, like speaker wire, they need to be the same but...)

    A electric signal propagates thru a wire at speeds close to the speed of light. You won't hear a delay in the sound if one cable was miles longer. Increased resistance / capacitance might begin to play a role but in a typical home setup I don't believe it.

    But, there is a lot of voodoo when it comes to people hearing things with different cables. But I don't see how anyone can really hear a difference if one cable was a little longer than the other.
  • audioluvr wrote: »
    What's the copper looking stuff lining the inside and what is it's function?
    The case I use, which you probably saw in one of the threads, is Cast Aluminum. Aluminum is great for RF shielding. The Copper adds EMI shielding, which is different. The Copper Foil MUST be separated from the Aluminum by etching primer and several top coats of Enamel. Galvanic corrosion will result if you don't.

    Thanks Dave!

    I WAS going to have you build this for me but budget being tight this time of year, i opted to do the build myself and use the savings for better options when I have you rebuild my crossovers.
    SDA 1C's
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
  • One last question (ok, maybe not...) Does the box need to be grounded? I'm assuming yes but thought I'd check anyways
    SDA 1C's
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
  • gimpodgimpod Posts: 1,738
    audioluvr wrote: »
    One last question (ok, maybe not...) Does the box need to be grounded? I'm assuming yes but thought I'd check anyways

    No.
    "If you design software that any moron can use only morons will use it." JMO
    ---
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain

    Unfortunately for most of us we only get to experience the first day and then we can't even remember it.
    ---
    "Close only counts in Horseshoes, Hand Grenades and Thermonuclear Weapons."
    "50% Why... That's almost half."
    "I know, I'm sick and need help."
    ----
    www.gimpod.com
    ----
    "The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction." ~ Kenneth Swauger
  • SchurkeySchurkey Posts: 1,747
    The transformer winding is asymmetrical. It's not a 1:1 ratio, and even the wire gauge is different primary-to-secondary.

    Having the cables on the outside of the box a few feet different in length will make zero difference in the real world.
  • delkaldelkal Posts: 194
    Schurkey wrote: »
    The transformer winding is asymmetrical. It's not a 1:1 ratio, and even the wire gauge is different primary-to-secondary.

    If the winding is asymmetrical it will change the voltage of the signal. Which side gets the higher voltage?

    Does that change the sound?

  • Got it! $132 delivered to my door in 2 days! Now just need to build a box and wire it up! I'll post pics when I get going on it.
    SDA 1C's
    B&K Reference 50 Pre
    B&K M200 Sonata Monoblocks
    Cambridge Audio DVD 99
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 39,448
    Schurkey wrote: »
    The transformer winding is asymmetrical. It's not a 1:1 ratio, and even the wire gauge is different primary-to-secondary.

    Having the cables on the outside of the box a few feet different in length will make zero difference in the real world.

    It's 115V - 115V.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 2,374
    Does anyone have an opinion as to whether it makes a difference which wires go to which speaker? Blue/gray/violet/brown on one side and black/red/orange/yellow on the other.
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 13,607
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Does anyone have an opinion as to whether it makes a difference which wires go to which speaker? Blue/gray/violet/brown on one side and black/red/orange/yellow on the other.

    It does not make a difference..
  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 2,374
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    It does not make a difference..

    Thank you, Larry. :)
  • gimpodgimpod Posts: 1,738
    Schurkey wrote: »
    The transformer winding is asymmetrical. It's not a 1:1 ratio, and even the wire gauge is different primary-to-secondary.

    Having the cables on the outside of the box a few feet different in length will make zero difference in the real world.

    All Avel Lindberg Y23 Standard Range Toroidal Transformers have 115 + 115 V primaries and the secondary of the Y236906 are 115 + 115 V, That would make it 1:1 would it not.

    From DK's The AI-1 Dreadnought Project Pt.1 Even though the pics are gone (Thanks EVIL Photobucket) it is still an informative read.
    A couple of years ago, Matthew Polk provided the following specifications for a toroidal transformer based AI-1:

    "1. DC Resistance of primary and secondary should be less than 0.8 ohms and preferably less than 0.5 ohms. The lower the better.

    2. Inductance of both primary and secondary should be at least 10mH. Ideal is around 14mH.

    3. Current capacity to saturation should be 5 Amps minimum.

    4. Of course the turns ratio is 1:1."
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Does anyone have an opinion as to whether it makes a difference which wires go to which speaker? Blue/gray/violet/brown on one side and black/red/orange/yellow on the other.

    @DarqueKnight wired his Y239609 as follows:

    The dual primary and secondary winding's were wired in parallel as follows:

    Right Pin = Red/Yellow

    Right Blade (Negative Speaker Terminal) = Black/Orange

    Left Pin = Grey/Brown

    Left Blade (Negative Speaker Terminal) = Blue/Violet
    "If you design software that any moron can use only morons will use it." JMO
    ---
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain

    Unfortunately for most of us we only get to experience the first day and then we can't even remember it.
    ---
    "Close only counts in Horseshoes, Hand Grenades and Thermonuclear Weapons."
    "50% Why... That's almost half."
    "I know, I'm sick and need help."
    ----
    www.gimpod.com
    ----
    "The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction." ~ Kenneth Swauger
  • Toolfan66Toolfan66 Posts: 13,607
    gimpod wrote: »
    Schurkey wrote: »
    The transformer winding is asymmetrical. It's not a 1:1 ratio, and even the wire gauge is different primary-to-secondary.

    Having the cables on the outside of the box a few feet different in length will make zero difference in the real world.

    All Avel Lindberg Y23 Standard Range Toroidal Transformers have 115 + 115 V primaries and the secondary of the Y236906 are 115 + 115 V, That would make it 1:1 would it not.

    From DK's The AI-1 Dreadnought Project Pt.1 Even though the pics are gone (Thanks EVIL Photobucket) it is still an informative read.
    A couple of years ago, Matthew Polk provided the following specifications for a toroidal transformer based AI-1:

    "1. DC Resistance of primary and secondary should be less than 0.8 ohms and preferably less than 0.5 ohms. The lower the better.

    2. Inductance of both primary and secondary should be at least 10mH. Ideal is around 14mH.

    3. Current capacity to saturation should be 5 Amps minimum.

    4. Of course the turns ratio is 1:1."
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Does anyone have an opinion as to whether it makes a difference which wires go to which speaker? Blue/gray/violet/brown on one side and black/red/orange/yellow on the other.

    @DarqueKnight wired his Y239609 as follows:

    The dual primary and secondary winding's were wired in parallel as follows:

    Right Pin = Red/Yellow

    Right Blade (Negative Speaker Terminal) = Black/Orange

    Left Pin = Grey/Brown

    Left Blade (Negative Speaker Terminal) = Blue/Violet

    I took his question as wondering which way the dreadnought went when connecting it to the speakers (do these wires go to the left or right speaker) but yes the construction goes as you posted..

    Basically once the dreadnought is complete there is no left or right side..

  • Viking64Viking64 Posts: 2,374
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    I took his question as wondering which way the dreadnought went when connecting it to the speakers (do these wires go to the left or right speaker) but yes the construction goes as you posted..

    Basically once the dreadnought is complete there is no left or right side..

    You are correct. That is what I meant. But actually it was that table that Gimpod posted from DarqueKnight's thread that made me question if there was a difference in the first place. I didn't want my new crossovers and dreadnought being part of a New Years Eve smoke show. :p
  • nbrowsernbrowser Posts: 7,879
    Viking64 wrote: »
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    I took his question as wondering which way the dreadnought went when connecting it to the speakers (do these wires go to the left or right speaker) but yes the construction goes as you posted..

    Basically once the dreadnought is complete there is no left or right side..

    You are correct. That is what I meant. But actually it was that table that Gimpod posted from DarqueKnight's thread that made me question if there was a difference in the first place. I didn't want my new crossovers and dreadnought being part of a New Years Eve smoke show. :p

    Homemade fireworks are AWESOME!










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