SRS 1.2TL advice.

Janne · June 2007

Hi new here! I bought my speakers back in Saudi Arabia 1992 and have been dragging them with me through Thailand and now to China. I have been reading about XO upgrades and tweeter changes in some of the threads. I have now XO BE-2001-C and SL3000. Would an upgrade be possible or improve the sound. The left speaker also sounds a little dull and it looks like it is taking less power from the amp. Not that the meters on the amp would be any reference but it looks and sound like the left channel has less high frequencies. Any advice is highly appreciated.

Serial R7122 & L7107

Polk65 · June 2007

Welcome. I believe you now hold the long distance record for moving a pair around. Before the upgrade goblins start their chants, there are a few other things to consider. The SL3000 tweeters have a finite life. When? No one knows but eventually their fluid will dry or clump up. The polyswitch is a tweeter protection device on the crossover and can often make tweeters do some funky stuff. If you have a multimeter, here is the SDA checklist in .doc format which you can use for troubleshooting. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showpost.php?p=564265&postcount=13

edit: Some of the crossover components have an expected lifespan of around 20 years so upgrading these parts is a good idea and does benefit the sound.

Ricardo · June 2007

Welcome; yes, you can upgrade your X-overs, and get the new silk replacement tweeters. You'll hear improvements with both (More with the X-over upgrade IMO, though others might disagree...).

Use the search function and you'll get lots of threads on the subject. Here's one (If you are going to do the x-overs, I'd recommend using Sonicap capacitors instead of Solen; they cost more, but the different in sound is worth it):

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37333&highlight=1.2TL%27s

Janne · June 2007

Thanks! The SL3000 were made back in Jan-91 so they have a few years on them. The polyswitch was probably glowing until Customer service adviced GET A BIGGER AMP!!!!!! I now run an old McIntosh MC500 which is nicer to the tweeters than the previous 200+200W Denon.

I will try that XO upgrade. It does not look that hard to do the upgrade.

Thanks to both of you!!

I lost the wife between Saudi and China but I am not letting these babies go!

I would miss them more!

madmax · June 2007

Janne wrote: »

I lost the wife between Saudi and China but I am not letting these babies go! I would miss them more!

You should fit in well here.

madmax

rskarvan · June 2007

Well.... a small wife would be easier to misplace than those big speakers!

Janne · June 2007

Eight tweeters and two polyswitches were ordered last night. 48USD a piece +120 USD shipping :eek: . Anyway it will hopefully be worth it.

I am having trouble finding an online store that have the recommended Sonicap capacitors. The Partsconnexion.com only has Solen capacitors. Anyone who knows a store?

How important is it to get the capacitance exactly as per the instructions. I saw on the Partsconnexion.com page that the tolerance for Solen capacitors is +- 5%. That would mean if I buy a 12 and a 1.5 and piggyback for the 13.5 uF requirement, max could be 14.2 uF and min 12.82.

For Jensen capacitors that cost 10 times more than the Solen the tolerance is -10 +20% ?? this is getting confusing.

Would you advice to use two different brands?

F1nut · June 2007

A few comments.....

You can leave out the delrin binding post insulators as they still require an oversized hole with flat shoulders on each side. It was easier to just do the flat sided holes for the Cardas binding posts. At that point, if you want, you can use red and black pin strip material to mark the posts. This job is not that easy and requires some forethought. It requires drilling and filing with miniature files to get the right shape. If you round out the holes, that is, if you end up with more than flat sides the posts will spin in their holes or worse, will slip thru.

Think long and hard about changing the interconnect cable socket from the stock socket. If you're bent on changing the cable, you can do that and still use the stock socket by terminating the ends with a pin and blade connector. If you plan on needing the AI-1, I'd leave cable socket stock, period.

hearingimpared · June 2007

Janne wrote: »

Eight tweeters and two polyswitches were ordered last night. 48USD a piece +120 USD shipping :eek: . Anyway it will hopefully be worth it.

I am having trouble finding an online store that have the recommended Sonicap capacitors. The Partsconnexion.com only has Solen capacitors. Anyone who knows a store?

How important is it to get the capacitance exactly as per the instructions. I saw on the Partsconnexion.com page that the tolerance for Solen capacitors is +- 5%. That would mean if I buy a 12 and a 1.5 and piggyback for the 13.5 uF requirement, max could be 14.2 uF and min 12.82.

For Jensen capacitors that cost 10 times more than the Solen the tolerance is -10 +20% ?? this is getting confusing.

Would you advice to use two different brands?

I wouldn't install the polyswitches, I would bypass. However bypass them only if you are confident that your amp has enough headroom for those bigguns!

BTW welcome to the club!!!

Janne · June 2007

hearingimpared wrote: »

I wouldn't install the polyswitches, I would bypass. However bypass them only if you are confident that your amp has enough headroom for those bigguns!

BTW welcome to the club!!!

Thanks!

I have the McIntosh MC 500 power amplifier. It has a soft clipping circuit to protect the tweeters. I believe it works as I have not had any damaged tweeters for years. Well last night when I was measuring up the speakers I found one dead tweeter. But I am not sure if that was from loud playing or old age.

Janne · June 2007

Lasareath wrote: »

Here's the email I got from Joe (Hearingimpared):

Sonic Craft http://www.soniccraft.com/ ;

Call to order, 501-620-4444, you will be speaking to Elliot.

Sonic Craft Generation 1 http://www.soniccraft.com/sonicaps.htm

“Sonic Capacitors Generation 1”

Ask for Custom Matched & as close to 1% tolerance as possible:

Qty Rating
6 12uf (he was able to get the 1% tolerance for me)
2 0.25uf (he is going to have problems matching this and will probably get within 8% tolerance which is okay.

2 13.5uf (he could get 3% tolerance here for me)
2 27uf (2% tolerance for me on this one)

Mills Wirewound Resistors – non-inductive http://www.soniccraft.com/mills_resistors.htm

All should be rated 12 watt

Qty Rating
2 2.7 Ώ
2 7.5 Ώ
2 11.5 Ώ (you may have to settle for 11 ohms here)
2 15 Ώ
2 22.5 Ώ (if you can only get 22 ohms that is okay)

SDA InterConnect upgrade and Speaker Binding Post upgrade

15’ of what ever speaker wire you are using currently to 1.2 TLs.
Hopefully something no smaller than twin lead 12 ga wire.
10 Cardas CCGR short http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/bindingpost/cardas_ccgr.htm

Four red and 6 black delrin binding post insulators.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&content_id=14&pagestring=Insulators

Two heavy ¼ “ gold spades that will accept up to 6 guage wire. http://vampirewire.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&page=1&cat=7

All of the above except for the spades can be ordered from Elliot.

To summarize, you will be ordering 12 capacitors, 10 resistors, 10 Cardas posts, 10 delrin insulators, two heavy gold spades.

Raife recommends using Monster Z2 for the SDA IC upgrade but he says to use the same wire that you used to connect your amps to the speakers.

Thanks for the very detailed instruction!

Would it make a difference to go for more high end capacitors? I am not really on a budget and if I will do the upgrade I would hate to read in a thread later that someone bought some better capacitors and the result was just fantastic :eek:

I was reading this page and this guy seems to have tested most of the capacitors.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

How about the coils? Would a swap do any improvement there?

I really appreciate all your advice! This is a great forum!

george daniel · June 2007

I have replaced the inductors(coils) on the crossover boards of my SDA 1C,ONLY because I had to.

george daniel · June 2007

Lasareath wrote: »

George,

Did you notice any sound difference?

And why did you have to?,

Las

Honestly,,I could not tell/hear a difference,,, I replaced the inductors because they had become dislodged in transport,,I used sonicaps and replaced the vc/inductors at the same time, so I never did an A-B comparasion. What I can say is that they sound Very Good. I purchased the inductors from madisound IIRC,,.

hearingimpared · June 2007

Janne wrote: »

Thanks for the very detailed instruction!

Would it make a difference to go for more high end capacitors? I am not really on a budget and if I will do the upgrade I would hate to read in a thread later that someone bought some better capacitors and the result was just fantastic :eek:

I was reading this page and this guy seems to have tested most of the capacitors.
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

How about the coils? Would a swap do any improvement there?

I really appreciate all your advice! This is a great forum!

The way I understand this is that the even high priced capcitors cost like two to three time more than the Sonic Caps but don't perform two or three time better. They may sound a little better but not the same ratio of their cost. Unless your coils are shorted out or open there should be no need to replace them.

F1nut · June 2007

If I was going to use Mundorf's, I would only use the Silver/Oil caps as the Silver/Gold present a slighty different sound. Having said that, real estate is a problem on the crossover boards. Fitting the Sonicap's is a challenge in it's self, fitting the Mundorf's is impossible without mounting them remotely. You will be very pleased with the Sonicap's, they are excellent.

hearingimpared · June 2007

F1nut wrote: »

You will be very pleased with the Sonicap's, they are excellent.

My Sonic Caps have just completed the burn in cycle and I agree, they are excellent!

heiney9 · June 2007

hearingimpared wrote: »

My Sonic Caps have just completed the burn in cycle and I agree, they are excellent!

I have Sonic caps in my 1C's as well and they sound fantastic. However I never had a chance to hear the 1C's (recently) with the stock x-overs as these were bought already modified. But I have no doubt it's a huge improvement and well worth the cost, time and effort.

H9

Janne · June 2007

F1nut wrote: »

If I was going to use Mundorf's, I would only use the Silver/Oil caps as the Silver/Gold present a slighty different sound. Having said that, real estate is a problem on the crossover boards. Fitting the Sonicap's is a challenge in it's self, fitting the Mundorf's is impossible without mounting them remotely. You will be very pleased with the Sonicap's, they are excellent.

Sonicap's it will be! I totally forgot the size factor. Being a metric guy. Inches does not make sense before you take out the calculator

Janne · June 2007

HTrookie wrote: »

Welcome; yes, you can upgrade your X-overs, and get the new silk replacement tweeters. You'll hear improvements with both (More with the X-over upgrade IMO, though others might disagree...).

Use the search function and you'll get lots of threads on the subject. Here's one (If you are going to do the x-overs, I'd recommend using Sonicap capacitors instead of Solen; they cost more, but the different in sound is worth it):

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37333&highlight=1.2TL%27s

In the link to the upgrade 4 pcs 750 pF SilverMica were used. Are they still needed?

george daniel · June 2007

good question,, some do, some use a .1uF sonicap in place/instesd of the silver mica,,and lately it is just replaced with a jumper instead.I believe that Darqueknight and F-1 have alot of experience when it comes to the pro's and con's of the 750 sm,my last set of 1C's,I used a jumper in place of the polyswitches and silver mica's. You may want to pm them and get their opinion. Have fun

george daniel · June 2007

Lasareath wrote: »

He needs more posts before he can PM

oh,,, well,in that case,,I'd just use a jumper,,but if he wants to use the silver mica's,,someone here,I can't remenber who,, just received a bunch of silver mica's that I sent them,,,maybe post a wtb for them.

hearingimpared · June 2007

Janne wrote: »

In the link to the upgrade 4 pcs 750 pF SilverMica were used. Are they still needed?

Take the SilverMicas out and place a jumper between R2 & P3. Look at the picture here. In the lower left hand corner you will see where the jumper goes.

Ricardo · June 2007

Janne wrote: »

In the link to the upgrade 4 pcs 750 pF SilverMica were used. Are they still needed?

Janne,

When I did the 1.2TL's I replaced the Silver Micas with new ones. I later did the upgade on a pair of 3.1TL's, and used Sonicap capacitors, using a Sonicap Platinum as the by pass. F1Nut had recommened that I could eliminate the by pass because using high quality capacitors did not require it, but I wanted to hear for myself and used it. I removed the by pass later and liked the sound better. Here's the link to the 3.1TL's upgrade thread:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47929&highlight=crossov%2A

Bottom line, if you use Sonicaps I'd recommend you just eliminate the silver micas (and place the jumper as Joe says....I didn't need it because the 3.1TL's single by pass is a direct by pass, while one of the 1.2TL's is not and the jumper is required).

hearingimpared · June 2007

There is one part of the upgrade which is very hairy. Look at the first picture. There is a royal blue capacitor half way up the board on the outer left hand side. This cap is butted up against the front of an inductor. One set of inductor leads is literally wound around the middle portion of the leads of the capacitor and soldered. You must be very, very careful when removing this cap from the board and from the inductor leads which are very fragile.

The next pictures display how the new Sonic Cap is installed. When installing the new cap proceed with caution as not to break the inductor leads. . . if you do, you are in deep ****.

Janne · June 2007

Guys! Soniccraft needs a schematic of the XO Where can I find one for the 1.2TL?

F1nut · June 2007

Las posted a parts list on page one, but here it is again.

Caps:

(2) .25uF (closest they have is .22uF, which is fine)
(6) 12uF
(2) 13.5uF
(2) 27uF

They will custom match and ask for close tolerance.

Resistors:

(2) 2.7 ohm
(2) 7.5 ohm
(2) 11.5 ohm (11 is close enough)
(2) 15 ohm
(2) 22.5 ohm (22 is close enough)

All are 12 watt.

Janne · June 2007

F1nut wrote: »

Las posted a parts list on page one, but here it is again.

Caps:

(2) .25uF (closest they have is .22uF, which is fine)
(6) 12uF
(2) 13.5uF
(2) 27uF

They will custom match and ask for close tolerance.

Resistors:

(2) 2.7 ohm
(2) 7.5 ohm
(2) 11.5 ohm (11 is close enough)
(2) 15 ohm
(2) 22.5 ohm (22 is close enough)

All are 12 watt.

I have sent these data already. I dont know why they are asking for schematics?

Ricardo · June 2007

They don't really "need" it; they should just fill your order with no questions asked.

I emailed you the file, if you want to send it; just make sure they don't convince you of buying anything extra (like a few platinum caps for by-pass)

Edit: cannot attach anything using the forum email option; PM me your email address and I'll send it. Too big to attach here.

Janne · June 2007

HTrookie wrote: »

They don't really "need" it; they should just fill your order with no questions asked.

I emailed you the file, if you want to send it; just make sure they don't convince you of buying anything extra (like a few platinum caps for by-pass)

Edit: cannot attach anything using the forum email option; PM me your email address and I'll send it. Too big to attach here.

Thanks! Its 05:00 in the morning here and I cant wait to order the parts to do the upgrade. They know it and just want to make me suffer. I found this one in the forum. I hope it is the right one.

SRS1_2TLSchematic(1).pdf

engtaz · June 2007

HTrookie, thanks for the insite (I didn't need it because the 3.1TL's single by pass is a direct by pass, while one of the 1.2TL's is not and the jumper is required). I was still wandering about weather it was reqired for the 3.1's.

Ricardo · June 2007

Janne wrote: »

Thanks! Its 05:00 in the morning here and I cant wait to order the parts to do the upgrade. They know it and just want to make me suffer. I found this one in the forum. I hope it is the right one.

SRS1_2TLSchematic(1).pdf

That's the one.

SRS 1.2TL advice.

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