What's most important spec(s) for amp driving low efficiency speakers?

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muncybob
muncybob Posts: 3,310
in 2 Channel Audio
So, again my daughter has asked dear old Dad for help. She only streams music and while her one system sounds decent she wants sound more like what Dad has and only has a budget of $1k max. I'm thinking maybe an integrated amp for simplicity.

Question is, when looking at specs is there any order of importance when looking at watts rms/both channels driven, headroom or even max amps when driving power hungry speakers?

She really wants my amp & pre but not sure the resident CFO will go with yet another "upgrade".
Yep, my name really is Bob.
Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,662
    edited September 16
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    That's a loaded question because how "low" efficiency, how low impedance? Room size has a lot to do with it. Type of music and listening habits.
    The Polk R200's I use in my office rig are about 86dB efficient, but they also drop down below 4 ohms at certain frequencies. My office/den, etc is a standard 12' x14' room (approx). I use a simple single Pass DIY Minmax amp rated at 15 wpc. It uses a 36V-5 amp switching walwart. I sit 5.5' away and can listen at moderate levels with zero issues.
    I can't achieve rock concert levels and I can't shake the foundation. But I don't hear anything missing from the music. The R200's dig as deep as they are capable. But I am limited as to overall SPL. I can listen loud enough to make it impossible to talk over. This is a very simple, small parts count amp with an adequate power supply.
    I am not saying to get one of these amps. Just an example of a small, low power, simple circuit amp being more than enough for my needs in my office rig.
    Does the DIY First Watt F6 do a better job? Not until a certain volume level is reached.
    That's my long winded attempt to give us more info about how the rig will be used and what the more specific inefficiency is.
    Big power supplies, many smoothing caps and the simpler the better as far as circuit design will yield a piece if gear that can drive inefficient speakers and low impedance speakers.

    I use a Marantz PM6007 for the TV rig running a pair of Polk Elite ES20 speakers. Nice little amp with a built in dac. It does an excellent job and sound very good too.
    https://www.crutchfield.com/p_642PM6007/Marantz-PM6007.html
    H9

    I don't know if this answered the question or was helpful....lol
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 29,720
    edited September 16
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    I'll make you a nice deal on my kynergenics amp

    Class a, 75, 150, 300

    Tons of current to drive most anything

    $700 shipped

    You can see it here

    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/202803/house-cleaning-part-2#latest
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 8,172
    edited September 16
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    I still think the recommendations we made the last time are her best bet. Some of those Class D amps we mentioned do great with low efficiency speakers.
    Brock did have a good point though. Are we talking 86-89dB low efficiency or something below 85?
    See profile for rigs. Nothing else here.
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 4,093
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    Current aka Amps.
    Since we don’t know where we are going we have to stick together in case someone gets there….Ken Kesey

    Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper REALLY likes you.
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,558
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    motorhead43026 wrote: »
    Current aka Amps.


    Depends on the impedance curve of the speaker, my apogee duetta 2 speakers are not that hard to drive because the impedance doesn't dip that low, but the sensitivity is only 80db, so they need higher voltage but not a lot of current.
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  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,788
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    "Amp"lifier B)
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 20,338
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    High current (AMPS), with plenty of headroom to spare and a xnsfrmr that can handle it. Final answer.

    * In the context of, "Who wants to be a Millionaire" *

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 3,310
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    Finally found the specs for her Monitor Audio GS60 speakers and they are more efficient than I thought (90db). The room is apprx 15 X 20. Going to need more than a stand alone amp as her old Yamaha receiver cannot be used as a preamp. She did pick up a WIIM (amp pro?) but doesn't feel it gives the room the full sound she is looking for so it will go into another room. The search is now for an integrated to take the place of the old Yammy.
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,662
    edited September 17
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    In that sized room with that efficiency, you won't need much. I'd buy a higher quality product with lesser watts over a mediocre product with many watts.

    Look at some of the new NAD legacy stuff.
    https://www.audioadvisor.com/products/nad-c-316bee-v2-integrated-amplifier-phono-included?variant=45983400362157
    Rotel
    https://www.audioadvisor.com/products/rotel-a11-mkii-integrated-amplifier-black?variant=45982913986733
    Marantz
    https://www.audioadvisor.com/products/marantz-pm6007-integrated-amplifier-new?variant=45981818060973
    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | Galion TS P75 Pre | Holo Audio Cyan 2 Dac | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • HzTweaker
    HzTweaker Posts: 1,120
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    I'd consider Emotiva:
    https://emotiva.com/products/basx-ta1-stereo-preamp-dac-tuner-with-integrated-amplifier

    Built in DAC, Phono MM/MC, BT (If you're into that lol), A/B amplification and enough power for speakers in the 90db sensitivity range. All can be had for $500 bones right now.

    I've heard this integrated with a pair of Klipsch (I can't remember the model) and was plenty impressed. Especially at its price point!
    2ch rig: Speakers: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands Preamplifier: Parasound P5 DAC: Fiio K13 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)

    Standby: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods
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  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 3,310
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    That's a nice price for what you get, but since she will only stream music isn't she paying more for options she will never use? Wouldn't this make more sense?

    https://emotiva.com/products/basx-a2l-stereo-amplifier
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, Polk L600, Rythmik L12 sub.
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  • PSOVLSK
    PSOVLSK Posts: 5,441
    edited September 17
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    A tad over budget, but a good deal on clearance at Audio Advisor: Marantz 60N for $1200.

    bs96ceizlu8a.jpeg
    Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 4,093
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    High fi shark has a couple Anthem Integrated 225. Same as I have had in my system for about 8 years. Nothing fancy, straight forward no frills
    workhorse. Plenty of good reviews and plenty power and current with lots of headroom. I love the Amthem sound and it’s a quality machine.

    And the price is reasonable.
    Since we don’t know where we are going we have to stick together in case someone gets there….Ken Kesey

    Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper REALLY likes you.
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  • HzTweaker
    HzTweaker Posts: 1,120
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    muncybob wrote: »
    That's a nice price for what you get, but since she will only stream music isn't she paying more for options she will never use? Wouldn't this make more sense?

    https://emotiva.com/products/basx-a2l-stereo-amplifier

    Good point, but if his daughter is "bit by the bug" and wants a TT later down the road she'll be able to grow with the Ta1 and it's only $150 more than the A2L.
    2ch rig: Speakers: Magnepan LRS w/Magna Riser stands Preamplifier: Parasound P5 DAC: Fiio K13 Amplifier: Parasound A23 CDP: Pioneer DV-563A Cables: Wireworld Equinox 7 XLR ICs, Wireworld Ultraviolet 7 USB, AudioQuest Q2s, AudioQuest NRG X(preamp)

    Standby: LSi9s with VR3's Fortress mods
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,896
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    The Emotiva BasX TA2+ is worth a look for this application. The GS60 were considered Monitor Audio's flagship floorstanders 20 years ago. Probably ideally sized for the room. They're 6 ohm nominal so need a high current amp. Although they go to 28Hz by themselves, having the option to easily hook up a subwoofer with analog bass management later is a good idea. Wiim products aren't designed for this type of speaker.

    https://emotiva.com/products/basx-ta2-stereo-preamp-dac-tuner-with-integrated-amplifier-1
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