R2R dac vs. Delta Sigma type dac

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

Other than the lower listening level, "I'd swear they are in the room with me".


H9

That right there!!! The beauty of the DAC. It's a humble privilege to have this firsthand knowledge.

I had the same experience with my other dac, just not to this degree. With the r2r, there seems to be even more delineation of instruments, voices and performers. More air, more decay, more texture and "space", in general.

The EE gives me that also, but the r2r does it a bit better, enough to be easily noticeable. Not night and day, but noticeable

I could live with either, but now that I've heard the Warmer r2r, it would be hard to go back.

H9

I am quite happy that even at this price point it sounds really good. I was expecting something different (compared to the std sabre), but honestly for this little $$$, I didn't expect to sound so good and be convinced almost right away it's overall presentation is more pleasing than the Sabre unit.

The clarity, blackness in the background and ambient retrieval information is excellent. Even a performers blowing of air across a wood reed of an instrument has taken on a new clarity.

Cymbals have more of a metallic sound but without the slight sizzle or "tizz". It seems everything is in better focus to use a eye glass term. It's like a layer of slight haze or mist has been taken away. More organic sounding.

Piano music is definitely more realistic. All piano to me had a slight ringing/resonance at certain frequencies that seems less noticeable with the r2r. Recording dependent of course.

I haven't even bothered to flip to Oversampling Mode, as far as I'm concerned it's not necessary for me at this point. People have reported rolled off highs. The r2r is as crisp as the EE just less of the haziness. It's very relaxed, yet very precise.

I have not really explored how much the tubes add. I have better tubes to roll. But I'm leaving it as is for awhile.

My Eastern Electric Dac Plus was $1195 retail in about 2012. Added $200 op-amps. It's no slouch, but there is enough of a positive difference with the Warmer r2r that I prefer it.

Worth the hype, worth every penny. I can't say how good it is compared to pricier R2R units. But if this more entry level unit is this good; I am going to explore a nicer r2r dac for the main rig.

H9

Geoff4rfc wrote: »

heiney9 wrote: »

If all goes well in the office rig with the RTR, I'll be looking/researching/taking advice on an excellent RTR for the main rig. But that's a ways down the road, perhaps...........



H9

You might check out Denafrips. From what I see, it doesn't look like they carry any tube DACs however the one I have is pretty stinking awesome. The Venus is what I snagged a deal on, pricy but man, it has transformed my 2ch listening to an "experience" each time. I couldn't be happier with a blind buy as I am with this one.

My girlfriend's reaction is pretty sweet. She says that it's like "having my own personal concert". When she closes her eyes, she says she can see all the instruments right there in room with her. I have to agree with her.

Glad to hear you're enjoying yours!!!

I'm looking into Denafrips units right now. Looks like a good bang for the buck.

H9

I don't want anymore tubes in the main rig. A tube pre gives just enough tubed flavor. If the pre wasn't tubed I might consider a tubed dac. I assume all ABBAS products are tube. I briefly went to their website, not something you can navigate quickly.

H9

Also looking hard at the

Holo Audio Cyan 2 r2r dac.

https://kitsunehifi.com/products/holo-audio-cyan-2-dac-us

H9

Going to make an offer on a used Holo Audio Cyan 2. It's NOS only, no oversampling option. I run Roon to stream Qobuz. Roon has it's own DSP and oversampling options if I choose to go down that path.

The reviews indicate it's right up my alley for being absolutely transparent and dead neutral. Deafrips, Ladder and Gustard all alter the signal a bit before it even hits the decoding stage. Some are more dynamic, some add a bit of warmth. Not that the 3 brands I mentioned aren't fantastic.

Holo Audio makes the resistor ladder boards for Denafrips or Gustard ( I don't remember which). They started in the game a little earlier and seem to be the best choice at my budget.

I also has a superbly built proprietary USB inter phase that is galvanic on 2 levels. My Roon Nucleus 1 is USB only, so that's important. I can take my Uptone Audio USB ReGen out of the chain

H9

For sh*ts and giggles I decided to hook up the FiiO Warmer r2r in the main rig. It's great hearing it do what it does in the office rig with the R200 bookies. It's superb. But a reference level rig vs. a very capable DS dac, how would the Warmer r2r compare.

It more than held its own. I was actually quite surprised at how well it did, especially the bass. I had read that the way the Warmer is designed if your amp impedance is on the low side it slight rolls off the bass. It's just part of the design. Well the bass was phenomenal.

Listening to some of my favorite, well recorded tracks I know like the back of my hand, I swear I was listening to SDA's, only better instrument placement across the middle. The middle was full, not just the singer floating in space. SDA's have a tendency to really project beyond the sides of the speakers around, but the middle isn't as "full" as what I was hearing with the R2R.

The Warmer did a great job of filling the entire stage and even beyond the sides of the speakers at times. This is what R2R dac's tend to do vs. Delta Sigma and it's filters, etc. Every instrument and voice had a huge space of air and delineation was "real".

One shortcoming is at this price point, there was some depth, but not like I've read higher end units can portray. Niles Lofgren - Live sent chills up my spine. It was so real and lifelike I thought he was in front of me. Texture of his voice and acoustic guitar was exemplary.

Ben Harper - The Will To Live was also superb.

Now, not to crap on DS types, they can do this too, but not to this degree and not as effortlessly. I thought to myself I could just buy another Warmer r2r and I'd be very happy. Then I thought, a higher end unit with tighter matching resistors and better internals could improve it even more.

I will have another listening session tonight to confirm what I experienced.

The Warmer r2r hits above it's price point and I haven't even swapped better tubes yet. I really did not expect it to WOW me like it did in the main rig. The main rig is relentless on lesser gear since it's so revealing. I just couldn't get over the bass and the realism.

Again spine tingling....

H9

Yeah, and this is a "budget" unit. Like wet paint vs. dry old cracked and faded paint. Let's see if I have the same exceptional experience during tonight's listening session.

I sit and listen to my modded EE Dac Plus in the office rig and it doesn't sound bad at all. But there is stuff missing. Once you hear it, it's hard to go back because I know it's missing and what the presentation is capable of. The r2r sound I am currently hearing is what I've been searching for all along.

Again, this is going to be recording dependent. I started listening to the new Greatest Hits release of the Cowboy Junkies - Open To Beauty - Best of the 21st Century. The mastering on it is terrible. I listened to songs I know well and thought what the heel is wrong with the rig. Not sure if they are competing for the loudness wars or what. It was loud, brash and shouty. I listened to the same songs on the original/remasters and they were 100 times better.

Not all recordings are the same.

H9

It'll be less "new" to me and I have many other familiar tracks to explore on the main rig.

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