Picked up a mint pair of SDA CRS +'s...I'd like to bring them back to their former glory, or better.

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  • 91rtstealth
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    xschop wrote: »
    Will he need the 1/4" female fastons for the -198 tweets?

    I have all kinds of stuff like that around here from doing car audio stuff. I got those. I’m just not sure about the rest.
  • 91rtstealth
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    alright..I just ordered all of the caps that I listed above...

    I'm about to order the resistors but I want to make absolute sure I got this right...

    two of these for the TL mod
    https://soniccraft.com/product_info.php/27-ohm-vishay-mills-mra-p-5217

    and then two of these to replace the Polyswitch?https://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/050-ohm-vishay-mills-mra-p-4610
  • 91rtstealth
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    Also does anyone know where I can get four of these? They are good on the other crossover but these arrived broken off like this and I’m not sure how I’ll mount the crossovers otherwise. I’d like to try to keep it somewhat “stock-ish” mounting wise.

    ijklq90mpda6.jpeg

  • Unknown
    edited February 14
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    This content has been removed.
  • 91rtstealth
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    Excellent. Thanks for the detailed help. I’ll look into ordering those resistors tomorrow or Monday.

    I may give those standoffs a try and if they don’t work out I’ll try to salvage the old ones from the other crossovers.

    And don’t you worry. I won’t be making any permanent decisions without first showing pics or videos on here. Haha.

    In the mean time, I’m going to start dynamating the drivers next week. I’m assuming I should also do the passive radiators?
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 6,079
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    Yes and make sure you glue your magnets too. Also you may be able to secure the new caps with thin long zip ties
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre Upgraded with Mundorf Supremes
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • 91rtstealth
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    How about these two resistors? I’m already ordering most of the stuff from Madisound anyways. I’d rather not order them from England. That will take forever and cost an annoying amount in shipping.

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/mundorf-coppernickel-10-watt/mrec10-mundorf-coppernickel-wire-0.47-ohm/

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/mundorf-coppernickel-10-watt/mrec10-mundorf-coppernickel-wire-2.7-ohm/
  • 91rtstealth
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    alright guys...I got everything I need...let me know if I have the right idea here before I start soldering stuff..

    https://dropbox.com/scl/fi/xswgjgefb3qiy380rzydu/SDA-CRS-Crossover-Rebuild.MOV?rlkey=1tfgke2mhke3jqx3gmgz5x37w&dl=0
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,933
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    Here's how westmassguy (RIP) did his, with some interesting additional innovation https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/169838/sda-crs-crs-something-different/p1
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Onkyo A-8017 integrated
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • 91rtstealth
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    1dz84hmw20s5.jpeg

    Got the crossovers done. I’m putting one of the speakers together to test it out

    Does it matter which way these two wires go? There doesn’t seem to be any label or difference between the two terminals. I’d rather know for sure before I send any signal through this speaker.
  • 91rtstealth
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    All done. And they sound great. I only got 10 or so minutes to listen to them before I left for my gig today. I’m gonna let them burn in the next few days and hopefully sometime next week I’ll actually be able to sit down and really listen to them.

    Thanks again for the help.

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  • 91rtstealth
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    alright..I let them run with pink noise for roughly 14 hours so far and I listened to them a bunch today...I moved them all over the place..tried different speaker stands, etc.......

    Notes:

    Some Pros:
    -Resolution is def improved. The imaging is clearer than it was before. I'm very pleased with that.
    -Bass is not as pronounced...less boomy, but that's more than likely due to the dynamat...while there's less perceived bass, it's at least more articulate and pronounced
    -Midrange is slightly improved...but still can't hang with the Mofi's...not even close..haha...but I didn't expect that. That's where the Mofi's shine, and comparing the two is apples to oranges, anyways.
    -Vocals are more out front than they were before, and the center image is more impressive due to the increased resolution. I'm also very pleased with this result.

    Some Cons:

    -while the rdo 198 tweeters are def an improvement over the SL2000, I'm not exactly falling in love with them. In fact, at this time, I'm not the biggest fan. The imaging and clarity is great, but I don't like the tonality of them. They sound a bit clinical, and they are a little boosted in the 7-8k range, which is an area I typically hate. However, they are brand new and I'm thinking that over some more burn in time, the caps and tweeters will open up. Right now they just sound stiff and a little unrefined around 7-8k. Hopefully that will change over time. If not, i'll try the rdo194 and rework the crossover. Also, I haven't tried them out on my tube amp yet. Sometimes that helps.

    -They still have that annoying ringing sound on certain instruments around 500hz, particularly Piano. Every SDA speaker I've ever owned does that. I usually just EQ it out if it really gets on my nerves during a long listening session. It's hard to explain, but it's a part of the SDA effect. If I pull the SDA cable, that issue goes away. To me it sounds like stored energy/ringing. It's not the end of the world, but it's worth noting. Small price to pay for an insanely huge sound stage.

    I'm going to let them run overnight for a week or so and see what kind of changes I notice.
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,821
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    "If I pull the SDA cable, that issue goes away. To me it sounds like stored energy/ringing."

    Intriguing, yet strangely familiar.
    Assuming you Dynamatted ALL stamped steel baskets, the culprit could be worn suspensions on those 6511's causing coil rub around that frequency.

    Find a pair of 6502's to substitute and see if it goes away.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,821
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    Forgot to ask if you did the PR push test on both cabs as well?
    If you re-use the factory thin gaskets, they can sometimes make noise in an area where the frame flange is slightly distorted. Seen this a couple times before.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • 91rtstealth
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    I don't think it's related to a driver issue. This is my 4th pair of Polk SDA's. I've had SDA1B, SDA1C, SDA2B, and now these. They all had that same characteristic. I think it's just a product of the SDA effect. It is what it is and I"m not terribly concerned with it. I just cut 500hz on all of them when it got annoying. No speaker is perfect. They all have pros and cons. I just hope these tweeters/caps come around after burn in, or that I simply get used to it. People tend to neglect brain burn in. It's a thing. haha.

    I'm not familiar with the PR push test? It does sound familiar, though. I vaguely remember a test where you push one of the 6.5" drivers in and see if the cab holds the pressure difference by seeing what the other drivers do. Is that what you're referring to?
  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 8,245
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    I don't think it's related to a driver issue. This is my 4th pair of Polk SDA's. I've had SDA1B, SDA1C, SDA2B, and now these. They all had that same characteristic. I think it's just a product of the SDA effect. It is what it is and I"m not terribly concerned with it. I just cut 500hz on all of them when it got annoying. No speaker is perfect. They all have pros and cons. I just hope these tweeters/caps come around after burn in, or that I simply get used to it. People tend to neglect brain burn in. It's a thing. haha.

    I'm not familiar with the PR push test? It does sound familiar, though. I vaguely remember a test where you push one of the 6.5" drivers in and see if the cab holds the pressure difference by seeing what the other drivers do. Is that what you're referring to?

    I think I hear the same thing in my TL modded 2B as well. I really only notice it when I run a frequency sweep from a test disc. I'd call it more of a resonance than ringing.
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,821
    edited February 27
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    billbillw wrote: »
    I don't think it's related to a driver issue. This is my 4th pair of Polk SDA's. I've had SDA1B, SDA1C, SDA2B, and now these. They all had that same characteristic. I think it's just a product of the SDA effect. It is what it is and I"m not terribly concerned with it. I just cut 500hz on all of them when it got annoying. No speaker is perfect. They all have pros and cons. I just hope these tweeters/caps come around after burn in, or that I simply get used to it. People tend to neglect brain burn in. It's a thing. haha.

    I'm not familiar with the PR push test? It does sound familiar, though. I vaguely remember a test where you push one of the 6.5" drivers in and see if the cab holds the pressure difference by seeing what the other drivers do. Is that what you're referring to?

    I think I hear the same thing in my TL modded 2B as well. I really only notice it when I run a frequency sweep from a test disc. I'd call it more of a resonance than ringing.

    Could also be the RDO plastic or even loose terminal tab mounts on the MWs.
    IMO the old particle board construction lends to midbass resonance/muddying as well unless extra bracing is done.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,821
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    I don't think it's related to a driver issue. This is my 4th pair of Polk SDA's. I've had SDA1B, SDA1C, SDA2B, and now these. They all had that same characteristic. I think it's just a product of the SDA effect. It is what it is and I"m not terribly concerned with it. I just cut 500hz on all of them when it got annoying. No speaker is perfect. They all have pros and cons. I just hope these tweeters/caps come around after burn in, or that I simply get used to it. People tend to neglect brain burn in. It's a thing. haha.

    I'm not familiar with the PR push test? It does sound familiar, though. I vaguely remember a test where you push one of the 6.5" drivers in and see if the cab holds the pressure difference by seeing what the other drivers do. Is that what you're referring to?

    Push the PR in and the MWs should slowly return back to rest.

    Another thing to look for is that the thin spiders of 6510's and 6511's are prone to cracking and separation at the cone/coil junctions.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • 91rtstealth
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    nah it's not related to the tweeter..it's a lower mid frequency..and it did it on all of my SDA's before and after I switched to RDO's......I really just think it's an artifact of the SDA effect, which makes sense...when you mess around with phasing like that, you're bound to run into some interesting sonic anomalies...

    if anyone wants to see what i'm referring to, here's a perfect (and extremely nerdy) example:

    Diana Krall-The Look of Love

    the main piano riff on the intro is: E flat, D, C, and back to D....and that particular D is the one just above middle C..so it's around 588hz. THAT note really cuts on Polk SDA's. Turn it up loud and you'll see what I mean. It might even hurt. haha. Granted, there are two factors here. The Piano is a little loud in the mix for my taste, AND in general, anything around 630hz is fairly unpleasant to most people's ears. In fact, Dave Natale, sound guy for the Rolling Stones always removes that from his live mixes, and so do I because it sounds like butt. haha. In all fairness, the mixing engineer should have dialed back the lower mids on that piano track, but who knows what they were mixing on. Every speaker, room, mixing console, mic, etc sound different.

    Which leads me to one of my favorite topics with audiophiles, EQ. Tone controls and EQ are not the devil. haha. Every single record you've ever listened to uses EQ, and most of them use compression as well. Every audio engineer, including myself, uses EQ more than literally anything when mixing. It's absolutely necessary. I ended up getting rid of all of my Polk SDA's because that weird bump in the lower mids, but then as I learned more about audio engineering, I learned that literally every single speaker has imperfections...every room, every mix..etc....so, now I just cut 500-600hz on my Polk's if a certain track gets on my nerves. I will say though, the CRS's aren't nearly as annoying as my bigger SDA1's were around that range.

    Also, every single human being hears things differently, so some of you might not even hear it and that's awesome for you. We're all different. Overall, I ended up getting another pair of SDA's (these CRS's) just because I think it's fascinating how they exaggerate the sound stage. It makes them super fun to listen to. It's not natural, but who cares. It's fun.

  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 8,245
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    Honestly, that particular Diana Krall album sounds off on just about every system I've heard it on. Try the Live from Paris album. Sounds much better.
  • 91rtstealth
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    I spent a few hours listening to them last night. They def sound better on my tube ST 70 kit that I built. In fact, I’m shocked by how well that amp can drive those speakers.

    Question:

    I’m trying to further understand exactly what I did.

    1. What exactly does that 5.8uf cap do for the tweeter? I’m assuming it high passes, but what frequency and what slope?

    2. If I wanted to try the rdo194’s, all I would have to do is ditch that 5.8uf cap and leave the 2.7 resistor, correct?

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  • 91rtstealth
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    got it..thanks..but "better" is a subjective concept..the only way to find out if you like something more or think it's better is to find out for yourself...everyone perceives sound, and life in general, differently....
  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 6,079
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    Diana Krall-The Look of Love
    the main piano riff on the intro is: E flat, D, C, and back to D....and that particular D is the one just above middle C..so it's around 588hz. THAT note really cuts on Polk SDA's.

    I just played that track on my SDA 1C's. What I'm hearing is the nature of a piano recording not a speaker flaw. Go sit down at a piano and press down on that key. Sounds normal right? Now really bang down on it like your angry. You will hear that obnoxious resonance. I gave away my piano to an aspiring young musician some years ago but traditionally my family has always had pianos in the living rooms so I'm familiar with this anomoly.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre Upgraded with Mundorf Supremes
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 5,821
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    I'd be more focused on that 500hz resonance issue.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 2,686
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    got it..thanks..but "better" is a subjective concept..the only way to find out if you like something more or think it's better is to find out for yourself...everyone perceives sound, and life in general, differently....

    That escalated quickly! 😝

    Brian

  • odcics2
    odcics2 Posts: 396
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    Sheffield Sound Lab records in the 80s were recorded directly to disc, no mixing boards involved.
    I don’t know if that’s still the case. My stuff is old!
  • 91rtstealth
    91rtstealth Posts: 125
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    bcwsrt wrote: »
    got it..thanks..but "better" is a subjective concept..the only way to find out if you like something more or think it's better is to find out for yourself...everyone perceives sound, and life in general, differently....

    That escalated quickly! 😝

    I'm not sure if that came off as hostile or not..but I certainly didn't mean it to. I'm simply trying to state that the idea of something sounding "better" to someone is a matter of taste...it's like me trying convince someone that Pizza is better than Sushi when they can't stand the taste of cheese or tomato sauce..haha...

    some people love the sound of bright, in-your-face sound signatures...I do not....and we're both right..haha..for the record, i'm not saying these SDA's are bright and in-your-face..it's just an example...
    odcics2 wrote: »
    Sheffield Sound Lab records in the 80s were recorded directly to disc, no mixing boards involved.
    I don’t know if that’s still the case. My stuff is old!

    I have one of those CD's..it's a great metric for testing audio systems. I used to use it when installing sound systems in cars back when I did that for a living. I still use it to check PA systems to tune a room. However, they still had to use mics and therefor, mic preamps, and often times those have EQ....one of the most revered mic-pre's of all time is the Neve 1073...and it has a parametric EQ built into it. You almost always need at least a high pass for most instruments and vocals..and drums almost always sound like absolute dog diarrhea if you don't remove 300-500hz from them....and this is mainly because they are close mic'd....no one listens to drums with their ear at the edge of the rim, but that's how they are usually recorded....so you usually have to remove that boxy sounding 300-500hz range from them in order for them to record well...and trust me, those drums on the Sheffield Labs recordings sound AWESOME....and I am particularly anal when it comes to drum sounds..that's what i've been mainly playing for 36 years, professionally for 15 years now.....drums sound gross without 300-500hz cut. So in summary, musicians and audio engineer's love EQ and compression. They are our best friends. haha. And when I say compression, I don't mean file or data compression..that sounds horrible. I mean signal or wave compression...that's how you squeeze all of the goodness out of a great vocal performance.
  • odcics2
    odcics2 Posts: 396
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    Sheffield info
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  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 2,686
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    I said that (mostly) in jest and I get what you're saying. On the other hand, the OGs here, of which @pitdogg2 is one, have steered me 100% in the correct direction every time with their recommendations. I haven't taken every suggestion from everyone, but those that I have I've been more than happy with.

    I'm not one for swapping tweeters, tubes or capacitors in a quest to find the ultimate if I can lean on someone's experience that I trust. But, I know there are those out there who enjoy doing that and would rather find out for themselves what they think works.

    Brian