R2R dac vs. Delta Sigma type dac

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  • Conradicles
    Conradicles Posts: 6,345
    Can anyone suggest some budget R2R DAC's?

    I would like to perform a shoot out in home.

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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 7,619
    edited January 27
    Conradicles wrote: »
    Can anyone suggest some budget R2R DAC's?

    I would like to perform a shoot out in home.

    What do you consider "budget?" The Denafrips Ares II can now be found for $500 or less. Some consider that an excellent starting point, or even a good enough ending point...me included.
    Edit: the II version is probably still closer to $500.
    Post edited by billbillw on
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,460
    Conradicles wrote: »
    Can anyone suggest some budget R2R DAC's?

    I would like to perform a shoot out in home.

    The FiiO Warmer in this thread is $334 with discount. How much more budget?

    Or

    This is also excellent.

    https://www.fiio.com/k11r2r

    It has a walwart which can compromise sound.

    Or

    https://www.fiio.com/k13r2r

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 20,023
    audioluvr wrote: »
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Technical babble aside? Just listen and trust your ears. ;)

    Tom

    Tom. Are you feeling okay?

    Not confronting....but what was meant by this statement? All I am saying is that I could care less about build quality and technical babble....all I care about is the end result as to what hits my ears. This statement has been true on this forum and others since almost (or well over) 2 decades ago.

    So, am I feeling okay? You bet.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,476
    billbillw wrote: »
    Conradicles wrote: »
    Can anyone suggest some budget R2R DAC's?

    I would like to perform a shoot out in home.

    What do you consider "budget?" The Denafrips Ares II can now be found for $500 or less. Some consider that an excellent starting point, or even a good enough ending point...me included.
    Edit: the II version is probably still closer to $500.

    The Denafrips DAC's are definitely good bang for the buck. There are better sounding DAC's but at much higher prices.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,460
    Glad I ordered mine when I did.

    Note (updated Jan 26, 4:30pm PT): Orders placed before today are on track to be fulfilled on or before Feb 7, 2026. All orders placed after this note will be part of the next production batch with an estimated fulfillment timeline of end of April 2026.

    I bought more tubes for it too. :p

    I am not totally familair with the ECC88/6DJ8 tubes. I do know there are some construction differences for Philips made tubes. There is the getter on a single post and halo, then there is the "A" frame that centers the getter (which is usually a solid disc with dimples around the edge).

    What is the difference in sound? In all other Philips tubes the dimple getter tube are usually made in the mid to late 70's. A much newer tube than the small or large halo getter.

    Is the A frame style worth getting if one already has the singl post large halo getter ECC88. Both tubes are from the Heerlen Holland plant.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 27,089
    IIRC @marvda1 liked the 7dj8 over the 6dj8. Hopefully he'll comment in the thread.
    All the 6dj8 i have tested or held all had the A-frame design. Out there looking for fun it seemed that the oldest had the single wire getter. You know that most seimens tubes had the 2 post getters, I never noticed a difference between them and the single post getter.
    Then we have Bob Carver who really liked the 6922 tube over the 6dj8, for whatever reasons.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,460
    edited January 29
    It seems a long time ago when I was doing some research for my brother for his Dodd pre-amp, which used 6DJ8's, the A frame and something to do with the grid came later like early 70's. Specifically in Amperex tubes. I can't swear to that. I guess the idea was less noise and microphonics.

    Doesn't the 7DJ8 have a different heater current?

    I bought a quad of high testing pulls from Textronics scopes. Amperex Bugle Boy ECC88/6DJ8's with large halo (single) post dates are 62 & 63.

    I am looking at (5) Philips labeled ECC88 w/ A frame and dimple disc getter. Probably not enough difference in sound to "need" both types.

    9jswped2xpt3.png

    Here's a better graphic and explanation

    https://vintagetubeservices.com/amperex-products-tour/
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Puritan Audio PSM136 Pwr Condtioner & Classic PC's | Legend L600 | Roon Nucleus 1 w/LPS - Tubes add soul!
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 35,077
    heiney9 wrote: »
    It seems a long time ago when I was doing some research for my brother for his Dodd pre-amp, which used 6DJ8's, the A frame and something to do with the grid came later like early 70's. Specifically in Amperex tubes. I can't swear to that. I guess the idea was less noise and microphonics.

    Doesn't the 7DJ8 have a different heater current?
    ...
    5hod8jox4ckh.png
    Assumung the TDSL synopses are accurate (I didn't look at primary references)
    2.28 watts for the 7DJ8 heater power rating
    2.30 watts for the 6DJ8 heater power rating






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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 13,099
    I sold both of the R2R DACs that I had, the Border Patrol SE-i and the Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1. I just didn't care for them, and in the case of the Denafrips, it was actually physically uncomfortable for my ears to listen to and made them feel fatigued.

    I guess it just goes to show that we all hear differently. My ears have no issues with other DACs like my RME ADI-2, Marantz SA-KI Ruby, Auralic Vega G1, Cambridge MXN10, etc.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 20,023
    Damn.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,133
    I always used 6922 or 7308, it’s been awhile but iirc there were some specific 7308’s that I really liked. They were pricier of course. If you wish I’ll go look at my stash and let you know. Same with 6922’s. I have some of those 6DJ8 A-frames but I don’t remember much about them but my recollection is the specific 6922 and 7308’s I have were far superior
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 7,619
    I cannot fathom a Pontus II-12th being uncomfortable to listen to. I wonder if there was a problem with the unit. But for sure, everyone has different hearing and preferences.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 13,099
    You can fathom it, because it happened. There was nothing wrong with the unit, I bought it from the original owner and the person I sold it to was thrilled with the performance

    The only "problem with the unit" is that it wasn't physically compatible with my ears.
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  • billbillw
    billbillw Posts: 7,619
    You experienced it, so you can fathom it. I wasn't there, so I cannot. Sorry it didn't work out for you. Otherwise, that model has almost universal praise for its natural sound.
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