80Hz Cross Good for CSi30?
John_Lohmann
Posts: 76
in Speakers
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Try 100-120, pick what you like best2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »Try 100-120, pick what you like best
Thanks for the response.
Based on the specs of this model, though (which I didn't include here because I figured folks would be familiar with the speaker on this forum), does 80 seem okay/right?
Oh, wait -- just noticed that you mentioned 100 to 120. This is higher than the 80 I assumed was alright for the CSi30...are you suggesting 80 is too LOW for this speaker? -
I assume you have a sub?
What front speakers are you running?
The center channel is for dialog, which is mid and upper range
Frequencies under 100 will likely start to sound muddy2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »I assume you have a sub?
What front speakers are you running?
The center channel is for dialog, which is mid and upper range
Frequencies under 100 will likely start to sound muddy
Yes -- I'm aware the center is for dialogue. The problem is that since swapping out an old Onkyo for a new Denon X2800 AVR, the center delivery has been a bit "clipped" using the same calibration values, hence why I was asking if 80 was a good cutoff for this model Polk (I've run it at 80 in every system I've used it in since I purchased it back in '04 or so; maybe it's time for an upgrade).
My left/right mains are RTi12s and, yes, I'm running a sub in the form of a PSW350 (which I am going to upgrade soon). -
The reason why 80 hz is basically an industry standard cut off for most speakers is the fact that at around 120hz , bass becomes OMNI direction and non local. Also bass from a subwoofer, a good quality well placed and calibrated subwoofer or woofers will provide more even bass around your room. They also have the ability to reproduce bass frequencies better then smaller driver in a not so great location in your room.
The spec's of a speaker's low extension point is what the speaker can reproduce in a Chamber. But like I said, the location of that speaker may not be ideal to reproduce those frequencies without being lost in the room or cancelled.
So the industry selected 80hz as most speakers , not all can reproduce this deep bass and above pretty well and the wave lengths of 80hz and above are getting shorter compared to lower frequencies.
As advice to go higher is not a bad one, actually as said in the said advice , you will most likely get clearer voice reproduction due to the removal of possible muddy overtone, more of my words not his.
Using a 100hz cut off in your preamp or in your case a Denon AVR, this will do actually 2 things, 1 clear up the center channel to reproduce less frequencies and allowing the ones it will to sound clearer and more open, also a added benefit is more amp power for all the connected speakers. The Less frequencies that any speaker in the system has to not reproduce will free up amp power which causes your system to be more dynamic with more headroom.
Don't get caught up in the numbers and feel your missing something with higher crossover over points, your actually doing the complete opposite.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
The reason why 80 hz is basically an industry standard cut off for most speakers is the fact that at around 120hz , bass becomes OMNI direction and non local. Also bass from a subwoofer, a good quality well placed and calibrated subwoofer or woofers will provide more even bass around your room. They also have the ability to reproduce bass frequencies better then smaller driver in a not so great location in your room.
The spec's of a speaker's low extension point is what the speaker can reproduce in a Chamber. But like I said, the location of that speaker may not be ideal to reproduce those frequencies without being lost in the room or cancelled.
So the industry selected 80hz as most speakers , not all can reproduce this deep bass and above pretty well and the wave lengths of 80hz and above are getting shorter compared to lower frequencies.
As advice to go higher is not a bad one, actually as said in the said advice , you will most likely get clearer voice reproduction due to the removal of possible muddy overtone, more of my words not his.
Using a 100hz cut off in your preamp or in your case a Denon AVR, this will do actually 2 things, 1 clear up the center channel to reproduce less frequencies and allowing the ones it will to sound clearer and more open, also a added benefit is more amp power for all the connected speakers. The Less frequencies that any speaker in the system has to not reproduce will free up amp power which causes your system to be more dynamic with more headroom.
Don't get caught up in the numbers and feel your missing something with higher crossover over points, your actually doing the complete opposite.
Appreciate the response, Mantis...but just going by the raw specifications of this speaker (which I can post here for reference, if you'd like), does it SEEM like 80 would be okay? There are pretty meaty midrange drivers in this thing... -
You have to run the set up/calibration program any time you change a component and after that you should dial it in the rest of the way by ear and an SPL meter.The problem is that since swapping out an old Onkyo for a new Denon X2800 AVR, the center delivery has been a bit "clipped" using the same calibration values,Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You have to run the set up/calibration program any time you change a component and after that you should dial it in the rest of the way by ear and an SPL meter.The problem is that since swapping out an old Onkyo for a new Denon X2800 AVR, the center delivery has been a bit "clipped" using the same calibration values,
I don't use room correction and never did; just preference.
I know, for example, that my RTi12 mains sound best at a 60Hz crossover so they can flex a bit of their bass abilities, but I was just wondering if 80 was "ideal" for the CSi30. -
We seem to be going in a circle here with very talented people responding
Mantis and I are/or have been in Pro HT Hifi for many years
Out of curiosity, what setting did the Denon X2800 give after calibration?
As a note: when doing calibrations, turn off as much back ground ambient sounds as possible i.e HVAC, fans, and appliances, ….wife, children too😂😂2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
txcoastal1 wrote: »We seem to be going in a circle here with very talented people responding
Mantis and I are/or have been in Pro HT Hifi for many years
Out of curiosity, what setting did the Denon X2800 give after calibration?
As a note: when doing calibrations, turn off as much back ground ambient sounds as possible i.e HVAC, fans, and appliances, ….wife, children too😂😂
I never suggested any of these good people -- including yourself -- did not boast any credibility in this area; I am merely explaining how my system is set up and why I was asking for a "raw" kind of answer with regard to the CSi30 and a crossover point. Everything that's been suggested and discussed is appreciated, wholeheartedly.
Please see above with regard to my comment to F1 -- it explains why I wouldn't know what the 2800 gave after calibration.
I just don't prefer auto calibration routines or any kind of room correction/EQ; if we can just stick to this to move forward with suggestions, it would be very much appreciated.
Here are some specs on the CSi30; based on these, on paper so to speak, does 80Hz seem like a decent crossover?
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-bXkuFSBgTac/p_107CSI30B/Polk-Audio-CSi30.html -
80, 100, 120…listen and choose
I too run calibrations, several times, write it all down the evaluate using different movies and content to come to a happy “too my ears” medium2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC
erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a -
Oy vey!Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Suggestion - use your ears.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
It's good.
