Belles 21a preamp

24

Comments

  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    marvda1 wrote: »
    @dr1978 open that puppy up. here is an internal pic with auricaps. i recall david belles saying you don't have to replace that fifth cap up front.903resltswlh.jpg

    I emailed Dave at Power Modules to see if that serial number label indicated that they did the upgrade. Indeed it does. But I'll definitely open it up as soon as I get it.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 3,186
    Dave's kind of a slow responder. Probably one of those eccentric genius idiosyncrasies. Looks legit though.
    Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    @marvda1 crazy, guess what the throw in tubes are...
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    edited January 13
    Unfortunately I can't get the sucker open! The screws on the side are ridiculously small. I had a tool for the ones on the faceplate, but I'm at a standstill with the others.

    I think I do spy the auri caps though.. 3ee2f54mi92m.jpg
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    Does this look like a homemade power cord?

    6oi2s1jh6qas.jpg
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,298
    dr1978 wrote: »
    @marvda1 crazy, guess what the throw in tubes are...

    mullards?????
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Argento Organic Reference, Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    From my other thread..
    marvda1 wrote: »
    @dr1978 make sure you use good quiet tubes in the belles.
    here's one you can try while it's cheap.
    https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/ge-12au7-6189w
    i bought a pair of radiotechnique 6189w when they were $60 ea. now they are $95 ea.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    Haha, whoops. I thought that link was for the radiotechnique 6189w. That's actually what he sent. Do you know how I can tell what grade they are?

    Sorry, my posting is a mess tonight, too much excitement!
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,298
    not sure but if you have the box with the upscale audio label on it see if it is graded noise-A and microphonics-A
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Argento Organic Reference, Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    Sure is. No clue what it signifies, but I see that the T2 values of each don't match.

    3adnx7n92h1c.jpg
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 18,288
    dr1978 wrote: »
    Sure is. No clue what it signifies, but I see that the T2 values of each don't match.

    3adnx7n92h1c.jpg

    The triode difference is not unusual.
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 3,186
    The allen wrench for the side screws is really small.
    Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    Do you happen to know what size it takes? Or did your unit come with it? I have a decent multi-tool, but the smallest isn't quite small enough.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 3,186
    I'll check. I'd run it as is for a baseline.. Could be what's in it are really good tubes.
    Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    For sure, I'm not planning on swapping them out for a while, just curious.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,298
    Let's get to the important part, "Da Sound Boss, Da Sound" :D
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Argento Organic Reference, Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    Ha, ok ok. I didn't get to devote much time last night, but there were some moments that immediately stood out. Specifically on songs with rich vocals or a lot of atmosphere...those elements were magnified and had me feeling like I was swimming in them. Codex by Radiohead was probably the highlight. One of my least favorite songs on their The King of Limbs album, but I was entranced last night.

    Definitely can't wait to do a ton more listening to find some less obvious attributes. Those that lobbied for a tube pre in my upgrade thread were of course on the money. I couldn't be happier with how everything turned out though.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,298
    also pay attention to the bass.
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Argento Organic Reference, Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    edited January 14
    I'll do that, and I'm glad you brought up bass. I really enjoyed listening to my 705's in full band for once, and didn't find anything lacking, but I was wondering if there was a way to integrate a sub with the 21a. I've got the HT Bypass hooked up and working, but I wasn't sure if I could turn this into a 2.1 setup for music.

    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 3,186
    Sorry for the delay. Side tracked. Those small screws take a 3/32" allen wrench.
    Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    audioluvr wrote: »
    Sorry for the delay. Side tracked. Those small screws take a 3/32" allen wrench.

    Thanks a ton, I'll have to head out and get one.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    edited January 16
    Any drawbacks to connecting the balanced output from the Belles to the balance input of my svs? Seems like that might do the trick. I'm using the unbalanced connections for pre to power amp and Marantz to svs.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 18,288
    Some gear will only do one or the other.
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,298
    edited January 16
    ok the 21a is not truly balanced, so if the svs is truly balanced i don't know how hooking one to the other works.
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Argento Organic Reference, Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    From the Soundstage review...

    "the 21A's circuitry is not fully balanced, however"
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    Mullards?

    uhyed4clivfe.jpg
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    Here's the whole thing..

    e8fzenukgfg7.jpg
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 3,186
    edited January 17
    I think that's a 12AT7 which is the wrong one.
    Edit: Brimar 12au7
    https://reverb.com/item/33830323-nos-brimar-ecc82-12au7-pair
    dr1978 wrote: »
    Mullards?

    uhyed4clivfe.jpg

    Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    Polk SDA 1C's modded
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables


    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.

    by Dr. Sardonicus
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 18,288
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I think that's a 12AT7 which is the wrong one.
    dr1978 wrote: »
    Mullards?

    uhyed4clivfe.jpg

    CV4003 is the designated number for the civilian valve known as 12au7.

    If you want to know the maker we'll need many more pictures on structure and or any other markings. Could it be Mullard .. yes Could it be another foreign manufacturer that copies those markings ...yes

    Mullards were made in Great Britain and also other european countries that mullard contracted out to. Before Mullard went to Russia they had also been made by a company in Japan.

    True Mullards not sure.
  • dr1978dr1978 Posts: 365
    Thank you sir. I already closed it back up, when I get the itch to try the radiotechnique's I'll take some more pictures.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, B&K Ref 2220, AMC 2100, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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