Belles 21a preamp

13

Comments

  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    My bet is those are old stock Mullards. Military issue, probably go for a couple hundred a pair. If so, they will blow away any new production tubes. I could be wrong but that’s my bet. I’d be counting my blessed stars
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    dr1978 wrote: »
    Any drawbacks to connecting the balanced output from the Belles to the balance input of my svs? Seems like that might do the trick. I'm using the unbalanced connections for pre to power amp and Marantz to svs.

    It works! I stopped at the local guitar shop and picked up some cheap Hosa Technology cables to try it out, and sure enough, I caught another break and the Belles is able to send signals out of both Main outputs. I'll be on the lookout for another pair of XLR's in the near future, but for now I'm in audio heaven. Loving the sound, and have multiple options to play with going forward (swapping in the B&K, tubes, cables).
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,009
    I would pin down what tubes you have in there before rolling tubes. If those are NOS Mullards, it would be a waste of money to roll in anything but other top shelf tubes, and even then I would enjoy the Mullards unless you eventually wanted something other than the Mullard sound. My guess is the guy who had an Auricap Belles also knew his tubes and gave you a pair of quality old stock tubes with the unit. Your system is deserving of quality cables - I don't know what you have but if that is a weak link I would consider some upgrades there.
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    Oh I don't think I'll be purchasing any tubes, at least not for a long time. I was referring to the pair of radiotechnique 6189w that the seller threw in. Assuming those were his backup pair, seems like your thought that the installed tubes are real deal mullards makes some sense.

    Regarding cables, my spending spree is (hopefully) over now, after I just bought a pair from Marvin.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • markinthedark
    markinthedark Posts: 4
    edited March 2021
    dr1978 wrote: »
    Here's the whole thing..

    e8fzenukgfg7.jpg

    See the four tan resistors next to the tube heat sinks? After I sent my 21A back to Dave Belles for a selector switch relay repair 15 years ago, he replaced them with bigger fatter blue ones, I assume higher wattage. I think he said the old ones were showing evidence of getting hot. Also see the brown coloration on the board.
    ijobcrnl92kq.jpg
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  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,500
    @markinthedark, first post and stopping by to help someone out. Very cool.
    ➀Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) ➁Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream ➂Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" ➃Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant ➄Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends ➅Streaming: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC, TP-Link WAP, & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS, PS Audio AirLens⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
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  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
    JayCee wrote: »
    @markinthedark, first post and stopping by to help someone out. Very cool.

    Agreed. Very cool of you!
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,585
    edited March 2021
    markinthedark wrote: »
    See the four tan resistors next to the tube heat sinks? After I sent my 21A back to Dave Belles for a selector switch relay repair 15 years ago, he replaced them with bigger fatter blue ones, I assume higher wattage. I think he said the old ones were showing evidence of getting hot. Also see the brown coloration on the board.
    ijobcrnl92kq.jpg

    Nice cap upgrade ;) . Welcome to Club Polk.

    My resistors are blue also but not as big as yours. I'll have to look up an upgrade for those also.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • markinthedark
    markinthedark Posts: 4
    edited March 2021
    dromunds wrote: »
    My bet is those are old stock Mullards. Military issue, probably go for a couple hundred a pair. If so, they will blow away any new production tubes. I could be wrong but that’s my bet. I’d be counting my blessed stars

    Just thought I'd bring up this anecdote, since you jogged my memory. About ten years ago, I had been using a pair of ebay Mullard 12AU7's successfully in my Belles 21A preamp for about five years. One day, suddenly and for no reason at all, this happened, and it took out both 7-inch Scanspeak mid-woofers in the left channel of my Meadowlark Blue Heron speakers. The sound was like what you would imagine if you plugged a speaker directly into a wall outlet. I don't really know how you put this information to use or have any advice though. Be careful maybe?

    au943xxwky2v.jpg
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    I've enjoyed learning about this piece almost as much as I've enjoyed listening to it. Well on second thought that's not nearly truthful, but I do appreciate all of the knowledge I've been handed. I have been itching to try out the Radiotechnique 6189W tubes that I have...your last comment, Mark, might just push me over the edge!
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • Gerres26
    Gerres26 Posts: 864
    I’m on the lookout for one of these 21a’s to come available and if you guys don’t stop talking so highly of them I’m never going to find someone willing to let one go :(
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    The Brimar is the Belles good friend
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    Now does anyone know what Brimar stands for.
    Keep quite Doc ;)
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  • Gerres26
    Gerres26 Posts: 864
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Now does anyone know what Brimar stands for.
    Keep quite Doc ;)

    Excellent Tubes??
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  • markinthedark
    markinthedark Posts: 4
    British Marvels?
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    edited March 2021
    .
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,585
    Brits really improved my audiophile receiver
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    The name Brimar was an acronym

    Bri=British
    M=Made
    A=American
    R=Range, Receiver, Radio.
    I've heard/seen all 3 as official who knows at this point.

    https://www.effectrode.com/news/the-brimar-valve-works/
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  • markinthedark
    markinthedark Posts: 4
    I installed some new issue Brimar 12AU7's after the new issue Russian Tung-Sol's that had been in there many years became noisy and microphonic, but still working. That took care of the problem.
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    My favorite in my Belles was the Brimar 13D5,,, I miss that pre,,it was a 20A,not the 21
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    markinthedark wrote: »
    dr1978 wrote: »
    Here's the whole thing..

    e8fzenukgfg7.jpg

    See the four tan resistors next to the tube heat sinks? After I sent my 21A back to Dave Belles for a selector switch relay repair 15 years ago, he replaced them with bigger fatter blue ones, I assume higher wattage. I think he said the old ones were showing evidence of getting hot. Also see the brown coloration on the board.
    ijobcrnl92kq.jpg

    Maaaan...Went to listen to some music a little bit ago, and...nothing. Belles wouldn't power up. Did some troubleshooting on power cords and everything checked out, so I started disconnecting it. As I'm in progress I start to smell a burning smell. Call my wife over "Hey, you know the smell you thought the dishwasher was giving off while I was at the store earlier? Smell anything like this?". Yep. Smell is definitely coming from the resistor area and they do look very beat up, and with the browning that you pointed out...

    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    edited March 2021
    c9jccsdhsjj8.jpg

    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    oe6mc551w3rr.jpg

    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    edited March 2021
    george daniel wrote: »
    My favorite in my Belles was the Brimar 13D5,,, I miss that pre,,it was a 20A,not the 21

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/13D5-12AU7-ECC82-VINTAGE-BRIMAR-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-/264238819005

    These the same ?
    Post edited by pitdogg2 on
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,441
    dr1978 wrote: »
    oe6mc551w3rr.jpg

    Those look cooked 😔
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  • maxward
    maxward Posts: 1,577
    Agreed.
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    Man so bummed
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    george daniel wrote: »
    My favorite in my Belles was the Brimar 13D5,,, I miss that pre,,it was a 20A,not the 21

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/13D5-12AU7-ECC82-VINTAGE-BRIMAR-NOS-VALVE-TUBE-/264238819005

    These the same ?

    I believe so
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,585
    edited March 2021
    I'd have the values checked on the inner resistors as well. Probably best to have them replaced as well. Do you know a competent tech in your area?
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    I do not. I'm sure there wouldn't be anyone in my immediate area, but hopefully Greensboro (1 hr), Raleigh (1.5 hr), Lynchburg (1hr) or Roanoke (1.25) has somebody. I'll get googling, but I'm not exactly sure on how to find someone, so any search tips would be appreciated.

    Any guess on if the damage would just be limited to the resistors, or if it is likely to be more widespread?
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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