System Advice Requested

dromunds · November 2020

So, a guy I know had a pair of GoldenEar 2's IIRC, and he wasn't all that happy with them. He says, "They are very clean and true. Nonetheless, I couldn't quite find a sweet spot." He has now gone to a pair of Martin Logan Classic ESL 9 electrostatics, and says he likes the bass better on the ML's and he loves the mids and highs. He has a Belles 150 amp and a Prima Luna Prologue preamp, ProJect RPM 9.2 Evolution Turntable with a Sumiko Blue Point Evo II cart, Vincent PHO-701 phono stage, Marantz CD 6006, and a Yaquin tube buffer. He said he purchased the buffer because he perceived highs as harsher on CDs. He has top shelf tubes in the preamp and phono amp.

He asked if it would sense to upgrade his amp? He has a budget of 2K? I told him that Belles amps are well regarded around here but I thought I'd throw this out as a question to y'all. Perhaps people have suggestions for improvement in areas of his system other than the amp if he has 2K budget ? What would be the most bang for the buck? Are there upgrades to the Belles that can be done that would be a dramatic improvement or would going to a higher level Belles amp be advisable? All thoughts are appreciated. He has not identified any specific areas that he is dissatisfied with in his system and I don't know if he just has the upgrade bug or what, but he wants to improve his system in the most cost effective manner possible. Thanks.

marvda1 · November 2020

He should not need a tube buffer if he has a tube preamp.
What tubes are in the preamp?
What cables are in the system?

Emlyn · November 2020

A DSD capable DAC/music streamer would be on my list.

dromunds · November 2020

marvda1 wrote: »

He should not need a tube buffer if he has a tube preamp.
What tubes are in the preamp?
What cables are in the system?

He has some 1958 or '59 Valvo Hamburg ECC82 long plate slant O getter in the preamp, I think he just switched out the rectifier but not sure what it is. I will ask about the cables in the system but that is an excellent point.

As far as the Belles 150 amp, is it fair to say that's a capable amp that would not be on the high end for replacement?

Emlyn: do you have any suggestions on a DAC/music streamer that would be in the $1K or under area, assuming he needs better cabling which I bet is the case?

Emlyn · November 2020

The Bluesound Node 2i is pretty popular as a starter point well under $1K. No DSD but it does support MQA from Tidal, and it's main virtue is getting a good foot in the door for network streaming.

rooftop59 · November 2020

If you keep an eye on Cambridge’s eBay site you can snag either a CXN V2 or an 851n streamer for under a grand refurbished. I am about to have the latter for sale in silver...

jdjohn · November 2020

Don't forget about power management. A good cord for his amp directly into the wall (maybe upgrade the outlet), a conditioner or regenerator for peripherals, good cords for those. That might remove some of the hash noise.

erniejade · November 2020

Your friend is not the first person I know that has had good luck putting a tube buffer on a cd player. What is his main source? If it is more cd \ digital, I would suggest changing the dac to something like a Marv suggested Musical Paradise MP-D2 MK3 dac. I did not see a streamer on your list so, does he want to try one out?

Since he has not stated what he feels he is missing or looking to get out of the system, it makes it hard to suggest anything. I think is preamp is solid. Maybe add a subwoofer in the mix?

invalid · November 2020

Maybe a tube preamp with the 6sn7 tubes, I think the primaluna preamps use the smaller 9 pin tubes.

marvda1 · November 2020

might mullards on the preamp. will know a little more when you get the cable list.

gyosa · November 2020

You beat me to it !

I’d look for a refurb 851n

Bk

rooftop59 wrote: »

If you keep an eye on Cambridge’s eBay site you can snag either a CXN V2 or an 851n streamer for under a grand refurbished. I am about to have the latter for sale in silver...

dromunds · November 2020

marvda1 wrote: »

might mullards on the preamp. will know a little more when you get the cable list.

He tried a bunch of tubes including Mullards. Those Valvos are really nice, on Heiney9’s top five list.

F1nut · November 2020

Dedicated 20 amp lines and MIT cables.

dromunds · November 2020

I’m awaiting word of from him on what cables he’s using but I had the same thought about MIT’s. I will also ask whether he has dedicated 20 amp lines. Thanks

audioluvr · November 2020

I've never heard the Belles 150A but I do own the 350A Reference. The mids and highs are very detailed. Subwoofer frequencies are detailed but not as pronounced. Maybe a good subwoofer is what he needs to enhance those frequencies as stated earlier. Also a good higher end speaker cable can make a difference as well if that isn't being used.

jdjohn · November 2020

If he's really into his vinyl playback, adding an SUT might provide some added excitement there.

Clipdat · November 2020

Shakti Stones

dromunds · November 2020

He said he is currently using "slightly above mid-level Morrows" and I discerned from his message that he means interconnects. He seemed to indicate he wasn't sure what speaker cables he had, but he got all his cable from a local audio salon in the mid-80's. He said he paid $300 each for two 3 footers back then which made his wife flip. (As an aside, I used to purchase a lot of gear from the same salon, the owner would let you take gear home to try out prior to purchase) I suspect that a compliment of decent MIT cables would be quite helpful, as well as a quality power cord on the Belles. If anyone is familiar with Morrow cables especially older ones would you please let me know what their general characteristics are? I suppose that depends on the model but perhaps they have "house" tendencies. In the back of my mind I seem to remember listening to some Morrows in the past and not being particularly enthralled with them, but I could be thinking of a number of cables that didn't do much for me. I also remember some of the cable in the early days commanding big bucks but $300 each for IC's would have been lots of dough in the mid-80's and that was purportedly the "friend" price.

invalid · November 2020

Cables may help, but it can be difficult to match the right ones to your system. You may want to look into a DSD dac or Maybe a tube dac.

marvda1 · November 2020

If I'm not mistaken, I think Monster was the big kid on the block and some of their wire is known to become corroded over time.
I am writing a review on some Audio Envy cables and am impressed.
$158 3ft. interconnects, $412 8ft speaker cables with a 45 day return policy.

SCompRacer · November 2020

I had ESL's for several years. Some amps can't handle an ESL speaker which can cause harshness or distortion.

Magnetic speakers presents a mostly resistive load to an amplifier. Electrostatic speakers present a capacitive or reactive load to an amp. If the amp can't handle it, or you have high capacitance speaker cables, harshness can be the result. IIRC ESL's can range from 2 to 120 Ohm, or more, depending on frequency. I know the Belles is a great amp but I don't know how it behaves with ESL speakers. Worth looking into. If folks say the Belle's works great with ESL's, you look elsewhere.

dromunds · November 2020

Thanks much. Anyone have thoughts on how the Belles 150 would behave with the ESL speakers?

audioluvr · November 2020

SCompRacer wrote: »

I had ESL's for several years. Some amps can't handle an ESL speaker which can cause harshness or distortion.

Magnetic speakers presents a mostly resistive load to an amplifier. Electrostatic speakers present a capacitive or reactive load to an amp. If the amp can't handle it, or you have high capacitance speaker cables, harshness can be the result. IIRC ESL's can range from 2 to 120 Ohm, or more, depending on frequency. I know the Belles is a great amp but I don't know how it behaves with ESL speakers. Worth looking into. If folks say the Belle's works great with ESL's, you look elsewhere.

Good point. I had to go back and read the OP's original concerns. My original thought was he wasn't happy with the bass output but now I'm thinking the highs are fatiguing on the ML's and the Belles could be considered too detailed for a naturally bright speaker. As for not finding the "sweet spot" with the GE2's I'd almost suspect room acoustics / speaker placement.

System Advice Requested

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