Question: upgrading cartridges

Hey guys -

Question - for those experienced. How different are cartridges from each other - from your upgrade experience?

Is it similar to a component upgrade? Or are we just splitting hairs?

Joey's Gear:
Current Gear:
Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


Main speakers system evolution over the years:
Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

Old Gear:
Speakers:
BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
Source:
Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
Preamplification:
Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
Amplification:
HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
Subwoofer:
Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
«1

Comments

  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,510
    Cartridges can make a huge difference. Definitely a component level upgrade.

    Especially when you consider how cartridges work with other items in the signal chain. There is a very good reason why good, high end phono pre-amps have so many settings adjustments.

    I am not a hardcore vinyl-phile but even within the MC cartridge world, there are definitive gains to be had as you move up the food chain. There are exceptions...budget cartridges that punch well above their price-class. But those are the exceptions and not the rule. And that disparity is considerably more evident in the MM world.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,669
    Yeah
    I’m going to have to test this out and compare.
    I will also bring in a Project RPM 10 and compare to the Avenger Reference.
    So much on my todo list
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 26,602
    edited October 21
    Different cartridge manufacturers have different - sometimes very different - perspectives on tone. Choice of cartridge, as already stated, will make an enormous difference in the overall presentation of reproduced music from a record.

    Matching of arm to the cartridge requirements is also very important, as is alignment in all three dimensions. Ideally the stylus should manifest perfect tangency (or is that tangence?) to the groove at all points across the record, and be able to respond to all of the peaks and valleys (in three dimensions) cut into the groove, irrespective of groove "velocity" (which takes into account signal amplitude and frequency, as best I understand it).

    Because records are cut with a tangential arm, and most tonearms are pivoted, there is always, always, always tracking error. There are multiple schemes to "optimize" the stylus aligment to give the best possible overall performance -- given that the stylus will be perfectly aligned at only one, or two (depending upon alignment) points on the record.

    PS Ortofon SPUs are bitchen.
    (but they're not for everyone, nor for every arm)

    B)

    PPS
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    Cartridges can make a huge difference. Definitely a component level upgrade.

    Especially when you consider how cartridges work with other items in the signal chain. There is a very good reason why good, high end phono pre-amps have so many settings adjustments...

    Oh, yeah, there is that, too! :)
    load resistance and capacitance matter quite a bit for MM and MI cartridges.
    MC cartridges are slightly "better" in that regard (as load capacitance is essentially a non-issue for MCs).

    PPPS We probably shouldn't even tell him about strain gauge and piezo cartridges, should we? ;)


  • ZLTFULZLTFUL Posts: 5,510
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    PPPS We probably shouldn't even tell him about strain gauge and piezo cartridges, should we? ;)


    Now yer just being mean. >:):D

    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,669
    So is a linear tracking arm theoretically the better move, doc @mhardy6647 ?

    I wanted to try out a koetsu or an airtight cart as a secondary to my Lyra.

    This can get expensive real quick... and outta control
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,669
    edited October 21
    I was looking at maybe this one as an end table some day - Clearaudio Master Innovation with TT1 or TT2. Linear tracking and magnetic platters. Plus the black is awesome.

    Someday... but I’m really enjoying this Avenger Ref!

    So no rush at all. Maybe in 5 or 10 years - hahaha

    Clearaudio Master Innovation at Paragon
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • jdjohnjdjohn Posts: 1,703
    Joey_V wrote: »
    This can get expensive real quick... and outta control
    Not sure what you mean... ;)
    lgxjb37wdes5.jpg
    8x6z5apy9a1d.jpg
    Those are obviously ones not currently installed on turntables...of which I have more than a few :# Of course, I don't think the value of all mine in total add up to the cost of your one Lyra Etna. Cartridges are relatively easy to store - don't take up much space - so easy to get carried away without realizing it.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • jdjohnjdjohn Posts: 1,703
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I was looking at maybe this one as an end table some day - Clearaudio Master Innovation with TT1 or TT2. Linear tracking and magnetic platters. Plus the black is awesome.

    Someday... but I’m really enjoying this Avenger Ref!

    So no rush at all. Maybe in 5 or 10 years months - hahaha

    Fixed it for ya ;)
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • jdjohnjdjohn Posts: 1,703
    ZLTFUL wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »

    PPPS We probably shouldn't even tell him about strain gauge and piezo cartridges, should we? ;)

    Now yer just being mean. >:):D
    Don't forget about step-up transformers.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • displaynamedisplayname Posts: 837
    Joey_V wrote: »
    So is a linear tracking arm theoretically the better move, doc @mhardy6647 ?

    Welcome to the rabbit hole. You've entered one of the most heated topics in high end turntables. Many people have designs they swear by, but good luck finding a universal answer.

    Linear vs unipivot vs gimbal
    Detachable headshell vs integrated
    Direct Drive vs Belt Drive
    Baerwald vs Stevenson vs others (cartridge alignment)
    Suspended platform vs Ridged
    Cartridge tonearm matching
    The list goes on!

    This is why vinyl is kind of it's own hobby inside the audio hobby. Have fun and figure out how to hide those receipts :D
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
  • marvda1marvda1 Posts: 4,126
    What happened to the rack being your last purchase of the year 🤔
    Amplifiers: MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800,Kinki Studio EX-M1
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, Cayin Venus cd-100i, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI,
    Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic Reference 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
    Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
    Interconnects: Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2, Gabriel Gold Reckoning
    Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
  • invalidinvalid Posts: 355
    marvda1 wrote: »
    What happened to the rack being your last purchase of the year 🤔

    He must of had an empty shelf on his new audio rack.
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,669
    edited October 21
    marvda1 wrote: »
    What happened to the rack being your last purchase of the year 🤔

    Did I really say the rack was the last purchase?
    🤦🏻‍♂️
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 26,602
    I'm not really sure that a linear (tangential) tracking arm is better than a swingin' arm -- it just manifests whole a different set of issues. My limited experience with linear-tracking arms is that IGD is essentially eliminated -- which I do like a lot. But it can be beaten back for a normal arm by proper alignment, too.



  • jdjohnjdjohn Posts: 1,703
    You'd be surprised what you can get (specs-wise) for your money with a vintage linear tracker in good working order.

    I happen to have a Technics SL-Q5 linear tracker, and pertinent specs are:
    Rumble: -78dB
    W&F: 0.025%

    VPI Avenger Reference comparable specs:
    Rumble: -82dB [clearly better]
    W&F: 0.03% [only a rounding diff.]

    The Technics is limited to P-mount cartridges, but those can actually be VERY good, but it is still a limiting factor.

    Having said that, gimme a TOLA Mitsubishi LT turntable that accepts standard 1/2" cartridge mounts, and I'd be happy. They sell at premium prices for a reason.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 26,602
    maybe something more along the lines of this...?

    tw2haqxf0vbk.png

    One of my hifi colleagues is currently fiddlin' with this one. Fiddly it is, but he's a mechanically competent kinda fellow, and he likes it quite a bit so far.

  • jdjohnjdjohn Posts: 1,703
    Very nice. Is that an air-bearing tonearm, by chance? I've heard that those are the schnizz-nit.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • txcoastal1txcoastal1 Posts: 11,553
    @SCompRacer

    Rich would be the guy to chime in on the air-bearing tone arm
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,669
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I'm not really sure that a linear (tangential) tracking arm is better than a swingin' arm -- it just manifests whole a different set of issues. My limited experience with linear-tracking arms is that IGD is essentially eliminated -- which I do like a lot. But it can be beaten back for a normal arm by proper alignment, too.



    I guess every design has compromises.

    Might as well quit while I’m ahead
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 9,070
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,669
    edited October 22
    Ortofon 95 is well regarded

    And the MC Anna
    Post edited by Joey_V on
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • BlueBirdMusicBlueBirdMusic Registered User Posts: 1,317
    Instead of thinking of a cartridge as a component, I think of a cartridge as its own compact audio system with multiple components. They are complicated and involved.

    Don't just stick with the new stuff. The vintage cartridges and styli have their own entrance into the rabbit hole. Then you have all of the peripheral accessories such as extra headshells, tracking scale, record cleaner, preamp, etc to consider.

    There is no stopping point!

    Find you a vinyl enthusiast friend (guide), someone like jdjohn, who has over the years accumulated many different brands and models of cartridges and can provide you the "ropes" as how they perform and sound.

    My main guide is a friend in NYC who has the same audio equipment as I have. He points out these vintage Audio-Technica cartridges that have been proven over time. He is also a treasure trove of styli for the vintage cartridges. Jody (jdjohn) has helped me too.

    Good luck!
    If the telephone doesn't ring ......... it's me
    Harry / Marietta Georgia
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 17,552
    Joey_V wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    I'm not really sure that a linear (tangential) tracking arm is better than a swingin' arm -- it just manifests whole a different set of issues. My limited experience with linear-tracking arms is that IGD is essentially eliminated -- which I do like a lot. But it can be beaten back for a normal arm by proper alignment, too.



    I guess every design has compromises.

    Might as well quit while I’m ahead

    yea man you had better pull the chute .....IT'S a DEEEEEEEEEP hole you just fell into.
  • maxwardmaxward Posts: 752
    But it’s sooo much fun! Thanks for sharing your setup ^.
    Thorens TD-160C; Sumiko Talisman S, retipped by Soundsmith; Jolida JD9; Marantz CD-53; North Star Intenso;
    Joule-Electra LA-100; Balanced Power Technology AC conditioner;
    Odyssey Khartago monos (with most factory upgrades); Magnepan MG 3.6R
  • nooshinjohnnooshinjohn Posts: 22,978
    edited October 22
    Joey... get a ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement and be done with it. Head and shoulders the best cartridge I have ever heard. It retains all the warmth of vinyl while also getting into 100db dynamic range, which is cd quality... You will never feel the need to look elsewhere for a cart.

    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa1d0i-clearaudio-goldfinger-statement-mc-cartridges

    https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649653064-clearaudio-goldfinger-statement-gfs-mc-cartridge-very-low-hours-excellent-condition/
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, TriangleArt Reference SE with Pass Labs Xono Phono Preamp, Walker Precision Motor Drive, ClearAudio Goldfinger Diamond v2 cartridge and Origin Conquerer Mk3c tonearm, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Pass Labs X0.2 three chassis preamp, PS Audio PerfectWave DAC MkII, Krell Evolution 505 SACD Player, Pioneer Elite SC-LX701, Oppo UDP-205 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds.

    I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” .

    “If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,669
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    I use an air bearing arm on a DIY heavy plinth Lenco. It is said to be an inexpensive knockoff of a higher priced arm. A wealthy fellow in the Lenco forum compared it very favorably to the higher priced air arms he owned. VTA adjustment is a bit clunky compared to the higher priced offerings. Like a coarse thread versus very fine thread adjustment. I have had many nice pivoted arms with the best set up tools and, just my opinion, I would not go back to a pivoted arm.

    My DIY Lenco idler build uses several layers of Baltic Birch. T-nuts were used for mounting components such as platter bearing and motor plate. Wood screws may eventually strip. T-nuts were mixed in alternating layers to help distribute any motor or idler vibrations into different layers. A larger, custom tight tolerance stainless platter bearing is used. Requires Turbine oil. An electronic speed control holds exacting speed. The torque available ensures no speed dropouts through difficult passages. The table is very quiet. It punches way beyond its price point.

    When considering an air bearing arm, you have other things to think about. Where are you going to put the air compressor? The type of compressor is dictated by requirements of the arm. We are talking large fish tank size, not a 5 HP shop air compressor. You have to run an air line to the arm. I have a cat who would bite the hose. Maybe the pulsing, vibrations in the hose with the pump running excited him. I covered it with Techflex so it looks like a power cord.

    Regarding compressor noise. Those without a basement put the compressor in a closet. I’ve seen some put them in an insulated cabinet in a closet. Mine is in the basement so I cannot hear it. I control the compressor with a remote-control AC relay. I simply push a button on a key fob and do not have to run downstairs or go into a closet to plug it in.

    You need an expansion tank near the arm to smooth the pump pulses out. Some DIY and paint or fabric cover large PVC. Mine is a repurposed whole house water filter with just the outer layer of filter material. A small CFM or cubic feet per minute compressor will not push through a thick filter. Air noise from the arm is not an issue at the listening position. Some claim the air rushing across the record blows dust off the record keeping them cleaner.

    I ran the air compressor tubing through the wall to an existing media plate (video, LAN and phone). A hole was drilled into media plate. A brass push-lock fitting was installed making it a very neat install with high WAF.

    I use an SUT or step up transformer for LOMC cartridges. IMO you end with less amplification noise using an SUT (passive amplification) and good quality lower output phono stage than without an SUT and a good quality high output phono stage. The SUT must be properly matched to the cartridge.

    52oen0rrisp9.jpg

    g69zx7kwk94n.jpg


    That's awesome man.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,669
    Joey... get a ClearAudio Goldfinger Statement and be done with it. Head and shoulders the best cartridge I have ever heard. It retains all the warmth of vinyl while also getting into 100db dynamic range, which is cd quality... You will never feel the need to look elsewhere for a cart.

    https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa1d0i-clearaudio-goldfinger-statement-mc-cartridges

    https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649653064-clearaudio-goldfinger-statement-gfs-mc-cartridge-very-low-hours-excellent-condition/

    I looked at the CAGFS.... impressive unit. It appears to be in the top echelon of carts. Some have felt it was a lateral move from the Atlas, and back. The Etna should compete well.

    GFS on a fatboy gimbal 12" arm on the second post.... wowzer, I am sure that'll be amazing. I hear it's a little finicky with set up especially given the extra long cantilever.
    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> Audio Research Reference 40th Anniversary -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ARC Ref 40th Anniversary
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • displaynamedisplayname Posts: 837
    Joey_V wrote: »
    I hear it's a little finicky with set up especially given the extra long cantilever.
    Once it's set up you really don't need to mess with it until you're replacing or servicing it. And you can usually pay experienced dealers for set up services.
    Analog: MoFi MasterTracker > MoFi UltraDeck > Sutherland 20/20
    Digital: Cambridge CXC / Streaming > Cambridge CXN v2
    MastersounD Dueventi > Rosso Fiorentino Certaldo or Arcam rHead > Hifiman HE4XX
    Discogs
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