Home Technology - Smart Homes - What is your wish?

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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    I have been working in high tech since I joined the Navy in 69, and they said I had an aptitude for electronics. I got a Computer Science degree in 87, and have been working in computer networking since then. Despite all the time I have been involved in high-tech at work, at home I keep it to an absolute minimum. I do have remote controls for my stereo and TV, a computer, tablets, and an iPhone, but that is it tech wise. Everything else at home is manually operated, and old school. I retire 4/30, and will be 70 this year. Once I retire I will quickly forget networking and programming.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,034
    Drive on down the coast for those beers we keep talking about and we can help you forget things even quicker. :pB)
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  • BlueFox
    BlueFox Posts: 15,251
    edited March 2019
    LOL. Let me get acclimated to doing nothing and then we can talk.
    Post edited by BlueFox on
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  • I think first of all you have to list down all the requirements you have from home automation, then start simply using a single device (a smart bulb), Phillips hue is good but bit expensive, but you can go with something like yeelight which is much affordable, I think this website will help you if you are a beginner for smart home: https://www.homegosmart.com/smart-home-ultimate-guide-for-a-beginner-2019/
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    edited November 2019
    ^^^^ Spam Alert! Jeez!

    But anyway, I missed this thread. Opened the linked from a trusted source (OP), and whoa! Love the bling! Doubles as a night light, of which I have all over the house. :)
    jpuoizpsj4kz.png
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    Apparently, the wi-fi will act as a multi switch operator. Set one as the master and it will control the other 3 or 4 at the same time. I have not purchased yet but am still interested.

    It states that it is Alexa "compatible" but that does not mean that one has to "enable" that feature, correct? If it isn't enabled and it just uses the wi-fi for multi-use applications, then privacy should not be a concern...

    In theory.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    That's cool. Anything Alexa enabled scares me a bit! Ya just never know. I do like the ability to link em too.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Anything that is voice command will be listening, and anything internet based will be collecting data.

    Kinda begs to question, and no disrespect to anyone, but.....is a "smart" home for dumb people ?
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,517
    edited November 2019
    tonyb wrote: »
    Anything that is voice command will be listening, and anything internet based will be collecting data.

    Yes, but lets be honest. Anyone using a computer or phone has the same thing going on. Do you think the gov (or the apps on your phone) aren't listening or collecting data on you 24/7/365?

    Just being on this forum means your totally compromised if you want to be honest. And if you are (and I know your not) on other social media platforms, or other forums, you are even more compromised.
    tonyb wrote: »
    Kinda begs to question, and no disrespect to anyone, but.....is a "smart" home for dumb people ?

    Tony. I respect you.

    That said, I DO take offense to that comment, and disagree with it as it keeps coming up from many people.

    Lets apply the logic you used to some other tech advancements...

    "Does using cruise control mean your too physically weak to keep the same pressure on the gas pedal"
    "Does having a calculator and using it mean your to dumb to do the math yourself in your head"
    "Does having a smart remote (or any remote) just mean your too lazy to getup and turn on 3 devices or more, and then keep getting up to switch inputs, adjust volume, adjust channels, etc"

    #1 for a large majority of us, just like cruise control, a calculator, and a smart remote the smart home is the "better mousetrap".

    Its is the next logical step to make your home "interactive". Its for those that wish to passively interact with our house (via schedules routines/sequences), and in some cases actively via voice.

    Example: I have some "smart lights". I can control them with an app, or with Google/Alexa.

    I have them scheduled to turn off/on automatically at certain times. Why?

    Well sometimes my kids forget to turn them off, sometimes I forget. Having them scheduled to turn off during times I know they shouldnt be on saves energy. And dont go down the "parenting" road on that one either please. My kids know they are supposed to turn lights off. Sometimes they just forget, or even fall asleep up there with them on.

    I'm working to get them to turn on and off with sensors as well so when my kid opens up the bathroom door at night to go pee half asleep it kicks on the light, potentially even dimmed lower than normal for them. Then when/if they forget to turn it off, because they are half asleep, it kicks off after a period of no movement.

    Smart Thermostat, same reason. Adjusts temps to save energy when I'm not there. Schedule the heat/cool for the seasons.

    Does it help I can tell my google mini "Turn Heat to 70" or "Turn the Loft Lamp to 50% (its a dimmable lamp)... Yes.... but even without a Google/Alexa I could control it all from an app as most stuff is app based. The "control" via google/alexa is useful for sure (so your using one system to control everything, like a universal remote for your TV/DVD/Receiver/TV), but not required to function.

    So for those of you freaking out about "listening devices", and automatically assuming you cant have a smart home without one

    #1 there are TONS of options out there that DONT REQUIRE Google Assistant/Alexa to work. You just lose the single point of control that bringing them all under that one roof provides.

    #2 even without a smart home, your data is 100% compromised. At minimum because your using a computer/phone to interact with this forum.

    There is no way to NOT have your data collected.

    Lastly your comment also ignores entirely the potential benefits for those with disabilities that it helps be more self sufficient.

    And lets be honest..... most "smart home" aren't that easy to configure as your dealing with different companies interfaces and getting them to work together. You gotta be smart (or hire a smart person a lot to program/fix it).
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    edited November 2019
    Damn, Enders.....did Tony touch a nerve? LOL

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    I want a garage automatic car wash. No, seriously.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,517
    edited November 2019
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Damn, Enders.....did Tony touche nerve? LOL

    Tom

    No but yes.

    I’m tired of hearing “smart homes are for people to dumb/lazy to get up and do X themselves.”

    That logic applies to ALL things.

    Microwave - what, to lazy/dumb to cook it over the stove
    Stove - what to lazy/dumb to cook it over an open fire
    Fire - what to lazy/dumb to start the fire WITHOUT using a lighter....

    It’s got nothing to do with lazy or dumb.

    It’s got to do with the fact humans always pick or make the better tool to do X.

    There’s gotta be a better way to start a fire = lighter
    There’s gotta be an easier way to cook food than over a fire = stove
    This still seems slow = microwave

    And while I’m an advocate for data rights (your ability to control who gets access to it, how it’s used), I also understand that if they don’t get you one way, they get you another. It’s always been that way.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    I am very dumb.
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    LOL, Dang Dan, got your socks all twisted didn't I.

    First off, I've stated before, smart homes are great for handicapped people. I'm for anything that makes their lives easier and more accessible.

    Are you handicapped ?

    I can even see a usefulness for home security if it's not internet based. It's not so much the collection of data that most worry about, it's the listening and ability to hack that most object to.

    In my opinion, co called smart homes takes some great concepts/ideas.....and takes them too far. We always go to extremes though, just our nature.

    I get the whole "making a better tool to do x" argument, but do mundane tasks need to be made better ? Yes and no...for the handicapped yes, maybe some for the elderly, but for the young and vibrant, uh...no.

    Your basically relying on apps to run your whole life, and if your brought up in that world, and it suddenly disappears for some unknown reason, what then ? You won't know how to do crap. Technology can absolutely be beneficial, but it can also be harmful if used in the wrong ways.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,708
    edited November 2019
    I'm with Tony on this 100%.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Damn, Enders.....did Tony touche nerve? LOL

    Tom

    No but yes.

    I’m tired of hearing “smart homes are for people to dumb/lazy to get up and do X themselves.”
    That logic applies to ALL things.

    Microwave - what, to lazy/dumb to cook it over the stove
    Stove - what to lazy/dumb to cook it over an open fire
    Fire - what to lazy/dumb to start the fire WITHOUT using a lighter....

    Eh Dan, that logic works both ways.

    Nobody knows HOW to cook because they can just order food through an app and have it delivered.

    Nobody knows how to grocery shop, Amazon prime will have it at your door in 16 minutes.

    Nobody knows how to communicate with people, because everything is done by text and email.

    Nobody cares to learn directions, we got navigation on the phone.

    Nobody teaches how to actually write a letter in cursive anymore, we got Tablets and texts, etc. Why learn math too, we can just ask google.

    Just a few examples, but certain life skills need to be learned, not done for you.

    btw...everyone should know how to start a fire, even without a lighter. :)

    ….and I apologize for wizzin' in your cornflakes bro. :) We just have different opinions on this subject.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,517
    edited November 2019
    tonyb wrote: »
    ….and I apologize for wizzin' in your cornflakes bro. :) We just have different opinions on this subject.

    Tony:

    I bet you and I could go round and round on this for days lol. Because neither of us is going to change the others mind (more than likely), it’s an exercise in futility :smile:

    So I’m going to agree to disagree, but next time I see ya, I will still shake your hand and break bread with you.

    Hell maybe we even end up debating this topic again lol.

    Respect.
    Dan
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • lightman1
    lightman1 Posts: 10,776
    Dan's got the bitchies this morning!
  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,517
    lightman1 wrote: »
    Dan's got the bitchies this morning!

    Dude your a day late, and we know you are MORE than a dollar short lol....

    Now shudup, eat your hotel bacon and eggs and get yer arse to Skips.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    tonyb wrote: »
    ….and I apologize for wizzin' in your cornflakes bro. :) We just have different opinions on this subject.

    Tony:

    I bet you and I could go round and round on this for days lol. Because neither of us is going to change the others mind (more than likely), it’s an exercise in futility :smile:

    So I’m going to agree to disagree, but next time I see ya, I will still shake your hand and break bread with you.

    Hell maybe we even end up debating this topic again lol.

    Respect.
    Dan

    absolutely my good man. I apologize for my poor choice of words saying smart homes may be for dumb people. I apologize for that, got to own it. Doesn't change my opinion on the subject though.

    To know where I'm coming from, I have to take you back decades to the digital revolution.

    Back when cash registers became digital. Great tool, told ya how much change to give back. Problem was, nobody knew how to do basic math after that. Power goes down and you have to make change by hand, they couldn't do it.

    Digital clocks- after a while, kids couldn't tell time with an analog clock on the wall. I kid you not.

    I'm not against technology, I'm against replacing basic brain functions with it. Certain things we learn, that can only be learned by doing them, should not be replaced by technology in my opinion. It bugs the heck out of me when I ask my young nieces and nephews basic questions, and they reach for their phones to ask google.

    Cooking....sounds simple enough, but it's become a lost art. Technology allows us to view how to cook in various forms. But you have to actually do it to learn how. Technology can help people learn, but without that actual physical involvement, it gets lost in the shuffle. Why learn how to cook in a world where we can just order meals in a second, have it delivered to your door before you even get home. Men make jokes about trying to find women that can cook, right ?

    Technology is a tool, can be used for good or bad, just like a knife, a hammer, a gun, a baseball bat. We have to retain the common sense of when to use this technology tool, and when not to.

    I'm also not hip on when technology replaces physical actions to the point we sit on the couch with a cell phone in hand and control every aspect of our homes/lives. Health wise….we as a society need more physical activity, not less.

    Maybe that can clarify my thought process on it a bit more. Still love ya brotha, our different opinions on subjects won't change that.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,477
    tonyb wrote: »
    Your basically relying on apps to run your whole life, and if your brought up in that world, and it suddenly disappears for some unknown reason, what then ? You won't know how to do crap. Technology can absolutely be beneficial, but it can also be harmful if used in the wrong ways.

    I'm agree with the above.
    I can kill my food
    Dress my food
    Start a fire without a lighter
    Yep I'm proud to be a caveman😉
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Eh, it's not about being a caveman, Ivan. It's about retaining knowledge within ones own brain, instead of allowing an outside device retain it for you. That device can someday go away, and your left with a vacant brain that hasn't learned to do stuff on it's own. Sometimes there's just no substitute for experience, right ?

    I mean, take audio, technology can produce graphs and charts on frequency response and a host of other parameters. One can use those parameters to decide which speaker to buy also.Until you have actual experience in listening though, you'll never be sure what matters most to you. How many times do we chastise anothers opinion because it's based on little to no experience, but instead based on what they read somewhere. Technology brought that opinion to your door, not experience.

    There's a point where too much information is shared, and at some point can and will be used against you also. One only needs to look at what China is doing with their technologies.

    Experiences come from just living a life, as each individual sees fit. That's why so many "wise" men through out history have been older people...they've had those life experiences to be wiser. We can't get to the point of replacing life experiences with too much convenience or virtual reality or we risk losing a bit of our humanity with it.

    Another example brought up in another thread I twisted some socks on....Tesla. Technology has enabled that car to basically come when you call it. We really need that option ? People could probably use that short walk after a meal to the parking lot, yes ?

    With technologies great potential, we must constantly ask ourselves not just CAN we do something, but SHOULD we do it. That's all I'm saying.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,230
    giphy.gif

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,902
    Now, if I had a wish, for a smart home. How about walls that change color so your not constantly re-painting to match décor changes. You could also change the screen wall to accommodate holiday decorations. A whole wall that can also double as a TV. A ceiling that you make change to an open sky display, or a sunny day. Make grass that only grows 3 inches so you never have to cut it. :) A hot tub that doesn't cost a fortune to heat in the winter. Flooring/carpeting that last, resistant to stains and spills, scratches. A drive way that melts snow without a 20k investment in water pipes underneath. Windows that never have to be cleaned.

    Technology is these so called smart homes, seems to me to be based more so around the collection of data, than actually doing something useful.

    I good example of that is something Dan brought up, the microwave. Technology created that useful tool, people scarfed them up like crazy because it was...useful to many. Then technology went a step further, made them wi-fi enabled, along with other appliances. Why ? To collect data on those appliances ? For what purpose ? Somebody needs to know when your using the micro, how often or for what ? Same with the oven/fridge/washer/dryer ? Your thermostat....someone needs to know when you turn it down or up, when your home ? Your meter tells them the energy your using already, why do they need specifics.....unless at some point it can be used to collect more money from you or regulate behaviors.

    Point here is, the more control/info you give to an outside entity, the more control they have over you. I would again reference China in that thought.

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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,892
    edited November 2019
    Smart home devices are like power windows on a car, central locking, keyless entry, keyless ignition, heated seats, ventilated seats, panorama sunroof... or even a unifying remote for HT & audio... the list goes on and on.

    Once you’ve tried almost any one of the above, you’ll never want to go back to what you had before.

    Two years ago, I changed all the main lights to Philips Hue and multiple outlets as well. This includes the garage outlets controlling holiday lighting outdoors. All of this is controlled in various ways:
    • HomePod speaker: Voice control.
    • Apple TV with Siri remote: Voice control.
    • Any connected iPad: Siri voice control. Touch control with immediate access from the swipe down Control Center.
    • Any connected iPhone: Siri voice control. Touch control with immediate access from the swipe down Control Center.
    • Any connected iPod: Siri voice control. Touch control with immediate access from the swipe down Control Center.
    • Any Apple Watch: Siri voice control. Touch control via the app in the dock.

    Automations are set up to turn certain lights (including outdoors) at a time of day, or in relation to sunset or sunrise. This means, for example, that outdoor lighting will come on at sunset and turn off at sunrise regardless of the actual time of day. Everything adjusted automatically when daylight savings ended recently. In the evenings, lights come on in the living room, for example, without having to go around and turn on multiple lamps individually. Similarly, they can all be dimmed with one command or screen tap for watching movies etc.

    When it’s time to turn in for the night, the last person awake can turn off all lights everywhere with a single command or touch control. I can do that from my watch in the bedroom even if my connected iPhone is off. When we are on a trip, the house lights and goes dark exactly as if we were home (and we can even check on it from anywhere in the world).

    The manual switches remain, of course, but they are barely ever used - and if you’re going to use them, they should be replaced with smart switches, so that HomeKit (or equivalent) is able to detect whether that light/switch is on or off.

    In some cases, it’s more cost effective to replace a switch instead of light bulbs. For example, if you have multiple pot lights in a corridor, or in a kitchen, then it would be far more cost effective to replace the switch that controls all these lights, rather than replace multiple individual light bulbs with smart bulbs. The same is true for chandeliers.

    Next up will be the thermostat, followed by door locks, including the garage, and security cameras. We will be able to provide our dog sitter with a “key” to the house using the HomeKit app for her iPhone, which will only be valid for the specified duration, instead of giving her a physical key.

    Adding presence sensors are another option. For example, if a presence is detected in a hallway at night, the lights could come on at 10% brightness like a night light.

    There are so many possibilities, and they improve all the time.

    I don’t worry about data collection. Apple is not an advertising company. I don’t care if they listen to my voice commands or monitor my HomeKit usage if there is any chance it might improve operation in the future. Apple never send me promotions based on any usage of our devices and there are no advertisements anywhere in official Apple apps.
    Post edited by Kex on
    Alea jacta est!
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,708
    Kex wrote: »
    Smart home devices are like power windows on a car, central locking, keyless entry, keyless ignition, heated seats, ventilated seats, panorama sunroof... or even a unifying remote for HT & audio... the list goes on and on.

    Once you’ve tried almost any one of the above, you’ll never want to go back to what you had before.

    Two years ago, I changed all the main lights to Philips Hue and multiple outlets as well. This includes the garage outlets controlling holiday lighting outdoors. All of this is controlled in various ways:
    • HomePod speaker: Voice control.
    • Apple TV with Siri remote: Voice control.
    • Any connected iPad: Siri voice control. Touch control with immediate access from the swipe down Control Center.
    • Any connected iPhone: Siri voice control. Touch control with immediate access from the swipe down Control Center.
    • Any connected iPod: Siri voice control. Touch control with immediate access from the swipe down Control Center.

    Automations are set up to turn certain lights (including outdoors) at a time of day, or in relation to sunset or sunrise. This means, for example, that outdoor lighting will come on at sunset and turn off at sunrise regardless of the actual time of day. Everything adjusted automatically when daylight savings ended recently. In the evenings, lights come on in the living room, for example, without having to go around and turn on multiple lamps individually. Similarly, they can all be dimmed with one command or screen tap for watching movies etc.

    When it’s time to turn in for the night, the last person awake can turn off all lights everywhere with a single command or touch control. I can do that from my watch in the bedroom even if my connected iPhone is off. When we are on a trip, the house lights and goes dark exactly as if we were home (and we can even check on it from anywhere in the world).

    The manual switches remain, of course, but they are barely ever used - and if you’re going to use them, they should be replaced with smart switches, so that HomeKit (or equivalent) is able to detect whether that light/switch is on or off.

    In some cases, it’s more cost effective to replace a switch instead of light bulbs. For example, if you have multiple pot lights in a corridor, or in a kitchen, then it would be far more cost effective to replace the switch that controls all these lights, rather than replace multiple individual light bulbs with smart bulbs. The same is true for chandeliers.

    Next up will be the thermostat, followed by door locks, including the garage, and security cameras. We will be able to provide our dog sitter with a “key” to the house using the HomeKit app for her iPhone, which will only be valid for the specified duration, instead of giving her a physical key.

    Adding presence sensors are another option. For example, if a presence is detected in a hallway at night, the lights could come on at 10% brightness like a night light.

    There are so many possibilities, and they improve all the time.

    I don’t worry about data collection. Apple is not an advertising company. I don’t care if they listen to my voice commands or monitor my HomeKit usage if there is any chance it might improve operation in the future. Apple never send me promotions based on any usage of our devices and there are no advertisements anywhere in official Apple apps.

    So, what you're saying is you sold your soul for convenience.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,892
    Not just convenience, but safety and efficiency too IMO, and my soul was damaged goods anyway, so the buyer got a raw deal.
    Alea jacta est!
  • Hey honey, what's the account number and the password to that account we have the 500k in? :D
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,926
    charley95 wrote: »
    Hey honey, what's the account number and the password to that account we have the 500k in? :D

    ask Alexa ;)

    I actually like to decide, myself, in real time when I turn a light on, or off. No interest in wasting money/energy/hydrocarbons in lights being on when I'm not in the room.

    I have programmable thermostats, and I am even kind of iffy on them... in Northern New England.