Let's Talk About Power Conditioners

245

Comments

  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,415
    I’m not sure I understand your grammar, could you elicit a more concise grammatically correct question please?
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 8,132
    lol! Posting at work and not proofreading.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,415
    Well, it’s no secret I am a fan of AQ and I figured I would give their new high current cable a try. I did bid on an Acoustic Zen used on Audiog—-n but the guy was a little out of touch with how to haggle so I moved onto this. We’ll see how it goes.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u
  • codycatalistcodycatalist Posts: 2,665
    I just unplug my power strip that has my preamp, Universal player and turntable. My amp is on it's own outlet, that gets unplugged too. I guess i'm lucky, we have a VERY predictable lightning season here and it is only for a month out of the year. If I see the clouds a comin' I unplug preemptively and get used to the idea that I won't listen that night.

    Granted I understand the differences between a surge protector and a power conditioner, this was just a response to those with just a surge protector.
    Just a dude doing dude-ly things

    "Temptation is the manifestation of desire which equals necessity." - Mikey081057
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  • motorstereomotorstereo Posts: 1,494
    edited May 2019
    I gave it one more shot doing an a+b comparison running my entire rig on my Furman conditioner today vs. 3 dedicated circuits. I no longer believe it's the conditioner running out of gas as much as it is the single circuit vs. 3. Going back and forth quickly it almost sounded like a low filter was being engaged when both amps, the sub, and the front end were plugged into the Furman on a single circuit. So the monoblocks will each have their own protection less circuits until a second pc unit arrives someday.
    During the power cable swap I also measured some more of them with my new emi measuring tool. My findings this time disappointed me as I found my Pangea AC9's add a bit of emi. Not much but as fat, unwieldy and miserable to work with as they are I expected no added emi. I was wrong again.
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 16,584
    I gave it one more shot doing an a+b comparison running my entire rig on my Furman conditioner today vs. 3 dedicated circuits. I no longer believe it's the conditioner running out of gas as much as it is the single circuit vs. 3. Going back and forth quickly it almost sounded like a low filter was being engaged when both amps, the sub, and the front end were plugged into the Furman on a single circuit. So the monoblocks will each have their own protection less circuits until a second pc unit arrives someday.
    During the power cable swap I also measured some more of them with my new emi measuring tool. My findings this time disappointed me as I found my Pangea AC9's add a bit of emi. Not much but as fat, unwieldy and miserable to work with as they are I expected no added emi. I was wrong again.

    Remind me, you have the big monster Macintosh monos? If so I wonder just what kind of amperage they pull when pushed?
  • motorstereomotorstereo Posts: 1,494
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I gave it one more shot doing an a+b comparison running my entire rig on my Furman conditioner today vs. 3 dedicated circuits. I no longer believe it's the conditioner running out of gas as much as it is the single circuit vs. 3. Going back and forth quickly it almost sounded like a low filter was being engaged when both amps, the sub, and the front end were plugged into the Furman on a single circuit. So the monoblocks will each have their own protection less circuits until a second pc unit arrives someday.
    During the power cable swap I also measured some more of them with my new emi measuring tool. My findings this time disappointed me as I found my Pangea AC9's add a bit of emi. Not much but as fat, unwieldy and miserable to work with as they are I expected no added emi. I was wrong again.

    Remind me, you have the big monster Macintosh monos? If so I wonder just what kind of amperage they pull when pushed?

    The manual claims 12 amps for each of the "Macintosh monos". But that is a worst case scenario and would be impossible to do without destroying something. My figures according to my kill a watt meter are .86 amps at -32.5db and 1.80 amps at -13.5db for each monoblock. This is on compressed music (fm) and in the range where most of my listening is done. So perhaps a steady 4-5 amps for the pair when "pushed". Couple that with maybe another 3-4 amps for the sub and front end electronics and there's maybe 9 amps tops. One 20 amp line should easily handle that load without voltage sag I'm thinking but I'm going to have to trust my ears here and stay with the extra lines.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,934
    I've used so many different brands over the years and APC has been the overall best so far. BUT Surge X is a smart way to go for protection. I'm on the fence with them as their lines are incomplete. I have faith in them but haven't seen the right piece for me.
    What I would have to use is a Surge X Block in front of a APC or Furman to get what I want.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,415
    Hard for me to tell if the cable has anything to do with this, but I had a crappy cable on it before so it had to help (see “what did you do to your ....” thread) but I have the following conclusions after adding the SVS to the hi current out on the Niagara.
    The three movie scenes I watched were:
    Beginning of Bumblebee when they are firmghting on the mountainside. The impacts have so much more strength. When the transformers hit the rock, the floor shakes crazy. Like it used to when the sub was spiked. But it’s not.
    The train scene in Solo, Star Wars story. The scene where they drop the car into the mountains had huge LFE effects. The sub has more gas as the frequency sweeps down low in this scene. Hitting the 20hz range and below.
    Lastly the truck scene in TMNT, this was the scene introduced to me at the SVS room at Axpona. Just more of the same here. Huge impacts and just more power behind them.

    I think the reserve of 90amps with the Niagara leaned itself beautifully to movies.

    The music will take me more time to tell but for now I just threw on some DNB and loved what I was hearing. The sub seems to blend with the mains better when connected to the AQ.
    I will report back as I listen to more music.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u
  • mikeyb128mikeyb128 Posts: 2,887
    edited May 2019
    First time I’ve plugged an amp into a power conditioner and it made a beneficial change. I ran it plugged into my 5000 for months, then switched it to a regular wall outlet (a furutech outlet). soundstage collapsed a considerable amount, and bass took a hit. The amp seemed to fall flat on its face. The audioquest 5000 will provide 100 amp instant bursts of current. The 5000 was the best 4000 bucks I’ve spent. I do have a Panamax in my theater, it does just fine. I think I payed 6-700 when it came out.

    I used to have a hiss in my right channel, I was getting a little nervous my SLP 05 was going to require service. After adding the audioquest this fantom hiss went away. Not To mention the click I would get through my speakers when the mini fridge came on. This is on a dedicated circuit with a massive balanced power conditioner.
    2 channel:
    Bryston 4B3, Bryston BDA3, Cary SLP05, Shanling CDT1000SE with parts conneXion level 2 mods, Nottingham analogue ace space 294, soundsmith Carmen MKii, Zu DL103 MKii, Ortofon MC 20 MKii, Dynavector XX2 MKii, Rogue Audio Ares, Core power technologies balanced power conditioner, Akiko Corelli power conditioner with Akiko Audio HQ power cable, Nordost heimdall 2, Frey 2, interconnects, speaker and power cables, Focal Electra 1028 BE 2, Auralic Aries Femto, Black diamond racing cones, ingress audio level 1 roller blocks, JL Audio E110 with Auralic subdude, Primacoustics room treatments.
    Theater:
    Focal Aria 926,905,CC900, SVS PB ultra x2. Pioneer Elite SC85, Oppo BDP93, Panamax M5400PM, Minix neox6, Nordost Blue heaven LS power cables.

  • jdjohnjdjohn Posts: 1,431
    A good entry-level PC that doesn't break the bank is Chang Lightspeed (they have a few different models). They avoid using inductive coils, which can choke. I've since moved on to PS Audio for PC, but the Changs are good.

    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • mrbironmrbiron Posts: 5,337
    Just saw this thread. A better conditioner is my next stop. Looking at a PS Audio Power Plant 3. Should hopefully run circles around the APC I currently have in place.

    Keep the info coming please.
    “If your eyes didn’t water, it means I didn’t go deep enough” says the nurse administering my COVID19 test. She was sweet...
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,415
    That new PSA stellar power plant is the one you should get and report back here your findings after you do. Please. :)
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u
  • Inspector 24Inspector 24 Posts: 1,307
    Power amps all plugged directly to wall, HCA3000 has it's own circuit, subs have their own, 3rd has HCA2003 direct to wall, same circuit a HTPS7000Mkii which has all other front end gear plugged into it and the Marantz powers only one speaker.

    Voltage swings aren't a problem in my home, we have the luxury of running directly off the transformer box with no other houses between us and it, often getting 121-123v as indicated on the Monster display, confirmed with multimeter. In peak A/C use hours it drops as low as 115 where SQ does suffer, so we listen at higher volumes later at night. Wife and I have both heard benefits running even just a Monster 2600 in the past, 7000 with balanced power provides additional benefit and it's convenient having a single power switching point.

    Tried running big amps through individual conditioners in past, did not like, best SQ has always been right to the wall. YMMV.

    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

  • Joey_VJoey_V Posts: 7,322
    Careful with that.
    mrbiron wrote: »
    Just saw this thread. A better conditioner is my next stop. Looking at a PS Audio Power Plant 3. Should hopefully run circles around the APC I currently have in place.

    Keep the info coming please.

    Joey's Gear:
    Current Gear:
    Torus RM15 -> Emm Labs TSDx/Bluesound Node 2 -> Emm Labs DAC2x -> ??? -> Boulder 2060 stereo amp (w/ Audioquest WEL Signature) -> new speakers + JL Audio F113v2 x2
    Rotel RA1592 Super Integrated -> Sonus Faber Olympica 3
    Oppo 105D -> Rotel RC1570 preamp -> Rotel RB1582 amp -> Focal Kanta 2


    Main speakers system evolution over the years:
    Klipsch Promedia 4.1 -> Axiom M22ti -> Sonus Faber Concertino -> Sonus Faber Concerto -> Polk LSi7 -> Polk LSi9 -> Martin Logan Mosaic -> AV123 Onix Ref 1 -> Martin Logan Vantage -> AV123 Strata Mini -> Martin Logan Summit -> Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor -> BW 802D2 -> Sonus Faber Stradivari -> Rockport Avior -> BW 802D3 -> BW 800D3 -> ???

    Old Gear:
    Speakers:
    BW PM1 (3.5/5), CM10s2 (3.75/5), BW800D3 (5/5), Rockport Aviors (5/5), Sonus Faber Stradivari (5/5), BW 802D2 (4.5/5), Martin Logan Summits (4.25/5), Martin Logan Vantage (4/5), Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor (3.75/5), AV123 Strata Mini (3.5/5), ML Mosaic (3.25/5), Onix Ref1 (3/5), Sonus Faber Concerto (2.75/5), SF Concertino (2.5/5), Axiom M22ti (2/5), Polk LSi9 (3/5), LSi7 (2.9/5)
    Source:
    Squeezebox 3 -> PS Audio Digital Link III -> Cary 306/200 CDP -> Cary 306 SACD -> EMM LABS DAC2X/TSDX
    Preamplification:
    Rotel RC1070 -> Rogue Perseus -> Cary SLP98 -> Cary SLP98F1 -> Cary SLP05 (sold and then repurchased) -> ARC 5se -> ???
    Amplification:
    HK AVR330 -> Rotel RB1070 -> Rotel RB1090 -> Plinius SA102 -> Cary 211FE -> Classe M600 -> Boulder 2060
    Subwoofer:
    Infinity Entra2 -> SVS 25-31PCi -> SVS 25-31PC+ -> Dual JL Audio F113v2
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 8,132
    mrbiron wrote: »
    Just saw this thread. A better conditioner is my next stop. Looking at a PS Audio Power Plant 3. Should hopefully run circles around the APC I currently have in place.

    Keep the info coming please.

    That's not a conditioner, it's a regenerator. Not trying to be persnickety, but there's a distinct and fundamental difference in it's design and approach.
  • mrbironmrbiron Posts: 5,337
    Clipdat wrote: »
    mrbiron wrote: »
    Just saw this thread. A better conditioner is my next stop. Looking at a PS Audio Power Plant 3. Should hopefully run circles around the APC I currently have in place.

    Keep the info coming please.

    That's not a conditioner, it's a regenerator. Not trying to be persnickety, but there's a distinct and fundamental difference in it's design and approach.

    Either way, we’re going to give it a go. ;)
    Joey_V wrote: »
    Careful with that.

    My wife tells me the same thing.
    “If your eyes didn’t water, it means I didn’t go deep enough” says the nurse administering my COVID19 test. She was sweet...
  • WLDockWLDock Posts: 2,757
    edited May 2019
    I'm a tech support guy for a solar inverter company and I can tell you first hand that the US grid is dated and has noise and problems. Our inverters like most power electronics have line filters, surge protection, protective relays, gates, current control, trip point, etc, etc. Still we see blown varistors due to transient spikes, etc.

    Given that most decent audio equipment has its own protection its still not a bad idea to have extra protection. As far as sound improvements and spending big bucks on conditioners...like everything your results will vary as the line voltage and noise will vary.

    I use a Monster power strip but plan to find a Bekin or Furman unit at some point. However, IMO if I had a serious and expensive system I would not spend big buck on a conditioner unless
    1) It would have to be a Balanced power isolation transformer.
    2) I could hear, see a difference.

    Great convo here: https://www.harbeth.co.uk/usergroup/forum/subjective-soundings-your-views-on-audio/electronics-sources-stands-cables-accessories/cables-connections-biwire-links-discussion/631-power-conditioner-myth-busted

    https://samplerateconverter.com/educational/power-conditioner

    https://www.furmanpower.com/furman-technologies/discrete-symmetrically-balanced-power

    http://www.bryston.com/PDF/newsletters/Bryston_Newsletter_V10_2.pdf
    http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0208/balanced_power_technologies_bp2.htm

    http://mr-cable.com/B-P-T.htm

    https://www.furmanpower.com/product/20a-prestige-symmetrically-balanced-power-conditioner-P-2400 IT

    https://www.equitech.com/

    https://www.toruspower.com/na-rm/

    https://www.plixirpower.com/
    FAMILY ROOM
    HDTV - Sharp AQUOS LC-70LE600U 70" | AVR/Streamer - Onkyo TX-NR3008 | Amp - Parasound HCA-1203A
    Blu-Ray/Media/Gaming - Sony PS3-320GB / Microsoft Xbox One | Broadcast - Xfinity X1 Platform
    Front Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Center Spkrs - Coming...DIY Statement II | Rear Spkrs - Artison Portrait LRS
    Sub - DIY Stereo Integrity HT 15 | Sub Amp - Dayton Audio SA1000
    Wire - Audioquest Type 4, BJC Belden 5000 | HDMI - BJC Belden | Power Cables - Pangea | Surge - Monster
  • tophatjohnnytophatjohnny Posts: 2,965
    I picked up a PS Audio.dectect for my bedroom set up and it works great.
    "if it's not fun, it's not worth it & remember folks, "It's All About The Music"!!
    *****************************
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,415
    Will are you close to GA?
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u
  • voltzvoltz Posts: 5,423
    I use a Voodoo power strip and the PS audio Dectect as Johnny does.. I always take the PS audio one with me to LSAF ;)
    2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge

    HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 8,132
    Anyone have any experience with the Shunyata Venom PS8? https://www.thecableco.com/venom-ps8.html
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,415
    I do.
    I had this guy at a stereo outlet think that was the be all, end all solution at that price point.
    Turns out he was wrong.
    Joe
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 8,132
    Sounds like a Tall Tale.
  • joecoulsonjoecoulson Posts: 4,415
    Yeah. We know who the clear winner at that price point is, I agree with you.
    Auralic Vega G1/Rega TT/Denon SACD - Parasound P6 - PS Audio M700x2 - Elac Adante AS-61 - AQ Niagara 5000 - SVS SB16u
  • ClipdatClipdat Posts: 8,132
    Their approach makes sense:

  • audioluvraudioluvr Posts: 2,284
    I just plug my stuff into the wall. If lightning is a concern i unplug everything then hum and pick on a guitar. I just can't imagine the power supply of an amp and pre-amp that already has a transformer would need anything to produce a clear signal path from input to output aside from voltage spikes and brown-outs. Maybe we are spoiled here in the Pacific Northwest. Or maybe you all have exceptional hearing and a dead quiet listening environment.
    One foot on audio nirvana and the other in the poor house.
  • kharp1kharp1 Posts: 3,463
    audioluvr wrote: »
    I just plug my stuff into the wall. If lightning is a concern i unplug everything then hum and pick on a guitar. I just can't imagine the power supply of an amp and pre-amp that already has a transformer would need anything to produce a clear signal path from input to output aside from voltage spikes and brown-outs. Maybe we are spoiled here in the Pacific Northwest. Or maybe you all have exceptional hearing and a dead quiet listening environment.

    I use to feel the same way. Thought they were items for the ultra wealthy that had more money than sense. My system always sounded pretty good. Then I learned a few things at work about the massive problems caused by transient noise and ground issues. So, I tried a used Panamax and really noticed no audible improvement. I went out on a limb and ordered a PSA regenerator and heard a noiseless background for the first time in my system. Like all things in audio, I wanted to try it and be able to say it was a hoax and save the money. Wasn't the case for me.

    I have good incoming power to my house. I never see it dip below 119v, and that's rare. I usually see 122-123 volts even during peak usage. As an electrician I'm consistently checking my connections at the panel, as well as receptacles on my audio circuit, so it stays in good running order. The difference I've noticed was significant enough to cause me to consider bigger regeneration to see if I can get bigger improvement. I say try it for yourself and see if you notice any difference.
  • SCompRacerSCompRacer Posts: 7,206
    edited May 2019
    I like my Richard Gray's Power Company.

    5j6g11ma3sbn.jpg

    I dig the light and the old logo. Not too steady there with the available light cam....

    7s8a4z3uq3er.png
    Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 16,584
    I use the Hydra8 and I think it made a difference. That is sweet Rich, the made some good gear from what I remember.
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