Spiked my speakers... and didn’t like

Weird, thought this would be a cool thing. I have replaced the metal gliders with some nice brass spikes on my speakers

Surprisingly, came to find out that my kid’s godmother piano recordings sounded bit off.

She’s a professional pianist, I have listed her playing for ages and I am familiar enough with her piano sound.

Maybe, a bit less realism and warmth compared with actual instrument sound?!
«13

Comments

  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 32,922
    well, there you go, then.
    1) you can't believe everything you read*
    2) you can't beat empiricism.

    B)

    ______________
    * except point 1) above, of course! You can believe that -- otherwise it'd be a metaphysical conundrum.
  • SIHAB
    SIHAB Posts: 4,491
    I spiked my speakers and vocals sounded slurred. :o
    Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears
  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 27,964
    There's a Katie perry song here
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Interesting. Makes me wonder. Manufacturers design their products (I know we do) knowing that the structural harmonics will never be completely eliminated. In fact it's impossible. So we take those harmonics into account, and design around it. We tune the structure so that the natural frequency, or other undesirable harmonics are never realized by a customer under normal operating conditions.

    I imagine the same holds true for Speaker manufacturers. Tuning the structures to the point of a nice balance (or compromise) to achieve the desired acoustic performance.

    Then, if any of those variables are altered (spikes), you get a change in performance, better or worse. Interesting. Something to ponder on a Sunday morning. :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • B67
    B67 Posts: 4
    Hi,

    I did something else because with spikes the sound was not sounding like it used to be. I put some svs soundpath under RTI A7. The sound was more open and the placement of the instruments were incredible. hzeat5q1eqxx.jpg

    Also with my Audyssey changed some things.
    You see first reading 11-05-2018
    After reading: 16-3-2019 - bi-amp was the same reading as the normal speaker connection. Look at my screen shot:ihrhxpo3nw8n.jpg


  • cortico
    cortico Posts: 587
    edited April 2019
    also, listened some unedited electric guitar recordings made on the same room, and amp cabinet low frequency resonances plus other harmonics sounded cleaner but unnatural...

    Could be a taste thing, I’m under the impression that the un-spiked speakers sounds better to me, on my specific set up... :)
  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    @cortico what speakers do you have?
  • cortico
    cortico Posts: 587
    afterburnt wrote: »
    @cortico what speakers do you have?

    I have the a recently recapped Polk Audio LS70 recapped pair.
  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,832
    F1nut wrote: »
    That is odd, every time I've spiked speakers or stands the mids cleared up and the bass got tighter.

    Agreed!!!
  • cortico
    cortico Posts: 587
    Exactly, that’s is what I found.

    Although, that is cool, I find it cleaned the mojo out of some recordings, where the “flaws” help to render the sound more realistically.

    As an example, fender tweed amp cabinet flatulence/speaker cone breakup when overdriven by a bass heavy guitar, or piano solo played by an heavy left handed pianist.... these sound more convincing with the metal gliders, “I find” :#
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    I spiked my wife's drink last night and she sounded amazing. 🎩

    That's some funny Schiit!
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,521
    On a slab home with a hard surfaced floor (ie, tile) I prefer rubber feet on speakers.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    The only time I have found spikes did not help was with the SVS SB16. I tried multiple spike setups, flat on carpet and with the rubber feet it came with. I then got the iso pads that were cheap from Amaz.. wasn’t until I put the SVS soundpath on there that it became less boomy and overpowering. But I am on a sunken floor crawl space (sub floor) which does not help.
    The help tremendously with the towers.
  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,707
    Are your speakers on carpet or hard floors?

    Spikes are meant to isolate the speaker by reducing the contact patch so that the heaviest bass waves don't transfer to the floor and vibrate everything around them. This, thereby, reduces the resonances in your listening space. This keeps those resonances from overshadowing the mids and highs which can be easily over-powered by large woofers. It also keeps those resonances from causing reflections that will cancel out mids and highs. This is why spikes can make a speaker sound more "open". All they are really doing is unmuddying the waters, so to speak.

    Spikes work best on carpets where the carpet can work adversely against your typical rubber isolation feet and actually transfer more energy than they prevent.

    But if you use spikes on a hard floor with no damping like a carpet and subsequent padding would provide, you can lack enough friction to keep the speaker from making micro-vibrations on the floor surface. This can cause energy reflections back into the speaker structure because the contact point is overwhelmed by the energy trying to get through it and it loads and unloads like a spring. This is why many people who use spikes on hard floors also use speaker spike isolation cups. They will absorb and quell those micro-vibrations by giving the spikes the damping they need to dissipate that energy.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • cortico
    cortico Posts: 587
    Hey, Dskip thanks for taking time bringing light to this.

    The rig sounds pretty good (at least, I think so, haha), I am not feeling that there's anything wrong with it.

    Some recordings, gliders presented a better rendering, especially if I am familiar with it. On other listening materials, spikes seemed better.

    I am sure my house construction comes into play, 130 years brownstone building wood joist slabs, narrow compartments, high ceilings...

    Either way good tones! I guess this comes down to a tone preference.

  • I hope this helps some folks here, I had two black quartz slabs made up for my 1Cs with adjustable spikes ( you can't see them under the slabs) however I noticed an improvement in the mid and bass after the mod I would describe it as a little more defined. I went with this approach so they would be easier to move around when needed.
    Yamaha RXA1030, Yamaha CD-S2100, Yamaha AS-2200, Bluesound node 2i
    Polk SDA2btl highly modded
    Polk SDA 1C modded
    Polk CS350 LS x2
    Kimber 8TC
    Sony 55" Bravia
    Wish list SVS sub

  • To add the speakers sit nice and solid, with the adjustable spikes they are dead level as well:)
    Yamaha RXA1030, Yamaha CD-S2100, Yamaha AS-2200, Bluesound node 2i
    Polk SDA2btl highly modded
    Polk SDA 1C modded
    Polk CS350 LS x2
    Kimber 8TC
    Sony 55" Bravia
    Wish list SVS sub

  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,707
    DSkip wrote: »
    John your comment is surprisingly incorrect. Spikes do the exact opposite of isolating. They are coupling devices through and through.

    Physics says you're wrong, champ.
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • Jstas
    Jstas Posts: 14,707
    edited May 2019
    Also, since nobody ever thinks I have a clue about what I'm talking about, here's a link to the first Google search result when you ask Google "how do speaker spikes work":

    https://ledgernote.com/blog/q-and-a/speaker-spikes/
    Foam pads go between your speakers and your desk, stands, or floor to decouple the two and then collect and dissipate any vibrations. ... The goal of spikes under your speakers is to decouple them from the next surface. The goal of spikes under your stands is to couple them to the floor by anchoring into it.


    de·cou·ple
    /dēˈkəpəl/
    verb
    - separate, disengage, or dissociate (something) from something else.
    "the mountings effectively decouple movements of the engine from those of the wheels"

    - make the interaction between (electrical components) so weak that there is little transfer of energy between them, especially to remove unwanted AC distortion or oscillations in circuits with a common power supply.

    Seems like isolation to me. But, what do I know? Me and my stupid engineering degree! Pfft! Like any of that matters!
    Expert Moron Extraordinaire

    You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you!
  • cortico
    cortico Posts: 587
    edited May 2019
    @Jstas it may sound confusing, because it depends on the application. Spikes on a speaker will couple the speaker with the floor, there’s a controversial debate of the effects of coupling and decoupling speakers.
  • kharp1
    kharp1 Posts: 3,453
    Jstas wrote: »
    Also, since nobody ever thinks I have a clue about what I'm talking about, here's a link to the first Google search result when you ask Google "how do speaker spikes work":

    https://ledgernote.com/blog/q-and-a/speaker-spikes/

    I can find so many things wrong, or arguable, in that article there's not enough room here to list them all. Mainly, its apparent the guy isn't an audio guy and obviously hasn't thoroughly followed and experimented for his answers. He references what he's read on internet forums as a basis for some things stating that some have spent $10k on cones only to find a phone book or rotten log from the back yard just as good. Based off that statement I'd say that's why people here think you never have a clue. Your words, not mine.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,704
    Spikes couple, period....end of discussion.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,474
    Jstas wrote: »
    ... The goal of spikes under your speakers is to decouple them from the next surface. The goal of spikes under your stands is to couple them to the floor by anchoring into it.


    John may I ask how the spikes can decouple a speaker BUT couple a speaker stand?
    For the record I know you for sure are 10 magnitudes smarter than I but this in itself contradicts itself in my eyes.

  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Interesting article. One take away for me is the theorem that speaker manufacturers tune their speakers knowing the cabinet will vibrate. I tend to agree. If they take that into account, so, in theory, spiking the speakers to the floor (coupling) will alter the performance.

    However, in my experience, yes I'm an engineer, unless you have an active (expensive) tuning device, you have to target a narrow frequency range to tune. Typically that frequency is in a region most often used by a customer. Not usually the extreme low or high frequencies.

    In my biz, we'll target a steady state condition. Highway conditions, constant velocity.

    So continuing with the theory, depending on how good the design is, or tuned, if at all, spikes may or may not improve the sound. But the sound will change.

    Experience from members here say spiking to the floor (coupling) generally improves the sound, most notably in the lower frequencies.

    Just my thoughts. Let the respectable conversation continue! :smile:
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    Just a question from me to ask the honorable gurus here:
    Why when I asked Ed from SVS about spiking (and then followed up with Dan Marks at Axpona) they both said coupling the sub to the floor produced resonances and unnatural sound?

    They sell (and gave me ) the Soundpath isolation feet. I have not posted yet as I feel it would just take away from this thread but they have made a solid positive change in the sound produced from my sub. Now full disclosure I have the worst floor for audiophile reproduction (crawl space on sunken floor) but it was huge. I am now testing the Elacs with the discs under them to see if (I doubt it but why not try?) decoupling them has any effect - positive or negative.