Subs for music - Sealed vs. Ported
Comments
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Well heck, there's tons of stuff out there. Here's another subwoofer info dump: https://audiophilereview.com/subwoofers.htmlLoving this thread! Lots of good advice here. Way more to consider than originally thought. Kinda like when I first joined this forum! Didn't know what I didn't know!
Appreciate all the comments!
Make sure to read this one in that list:
My Journey, Kicking and Screaming, Into Subwoofers
https://audiophilereview.com/subwoofers/my-journey-kicking-and-screaming-into-subwoofers.html
Also, read the opening lines from the review by the absolute sound of the JL Audio subs. They start off like this:
^ shows whats possible!JL Audio E-Sub e110 Subwoofer - Old Dog, New Trick
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/jl-audio-e-sub-e110-subwoofer/
It is no secret that I’m not a fan of subwoofers. In my experience they take away more in transparency and coherence than they pay back in low-end extension and power-handling, especially when they are mated to bass-shy two-ways or any kind of planar, ’stat, ribbon, or quasi-ribbon. (Ironically, subwoofers work best—or at least better—with speakers that don’t really need them, i.e., with dynamic speakers that already have good bass extension.) Thus, it may come as a surprise to learn that I really like JLAudio’s e110 sub, even when it is paired with a two-way. It certainly came as a surprise to me.
JL Audio Gotham Subwoofer and CR-1 Crossover - New Dog, Old Trick
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/jl-audio-gotham-subwoofer-and-cr-1-crossover/?page=3
As you know, I am not a fan of subwoofers—that is, I wasn’t a fan of subs until I ran headlong into JL Audio’s e110 about a year ago, and concluded (to my astonishment) that when this compact, affordable sub was paired with a superb two-way like the $27k Raidho D-1, it came so close to the sound of my $200k reference loudspeakers—at one-sixth their price—I could scarcely tell the difference.
Maybe you'll get a change to listed to some subs at AXPONA. Most rooms won't have them but some will.Post edited by WLDock on -
Dave, you really should have your crossovers rebuilt on those 1.2's first. You are missing out on a lot! Just my opinion though...Cambridge Audio 851N Streamer/DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Belles 350A Reference modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January.
by Dr. Sardonicus -
@verb Dogg
I did not expect the bass on the new-to-me preamp to be so impactful, sans my Rythmik
I’m sure it has to do with the 1944 Ken Rads and the pre’s topology. Because of the available IC connections, I’ve been running my system without the Rhythmik and it’s pretty impressive
If you’re “inna-rested” . . . Reach out
FYI, I reached out to Jim today and I’ll be making a stop over at his shop soon ....
Maybe even this weekend…
Why, you may ask … Just like life is better with the dog. Life is better with two subwoofers!
let me know if you’re interestedDave, you really should have your crossovers rebuilt on those 1.2's first. You are missing out on a lot! Just my opinion though...
Good advise ...Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
LCD Samsung LN46B750
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Center Salk HT2C
Pre Cary SLP-05
Wires WW & MIT -
Dave, you really should have your crossovers rebuilt on those 1.2's first. You are missing out on a lot! Just my opinion though...
Yup. On my list!Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
@verb Dogg
I did not expect the bass on the new-to-me preamp to be so impactful, sans my Rythmik
I’m sure it has to do with the 1944 Ken Rads and the pre’s topology. Because of the available IC connections, I’ve been running my system without the Rhythmik and it’s pretty impressive
If you’re “inna-rested” . . . Reach out
FYI, I reached out to Jim today and I’ll be making a stop over at his shop soon ....
Maybe even this weekend…
Why, you may ask … Just like life is better with the dog. Life is better with two subwoofers!
let me know if you’re interestedDave, you really should have your crossovers rebuilt on those 1.2's first. You are missing out on a lot! Just my opinion though...
Good advise ...
Dog! For sure! You da man! What pre did you get?Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
Mike I'm glad you posted this link. Very informative, and worthwhile read. Lot's of interesting thoughts and comments. And very cordial!
Another interesting discussion (via Vandersteen's approach) to the benefits of using speaker level inputs to the sub. Got my learning done for the day!
Speaker level is the only way to go, IME. REL and Velodyne have been telling people that for years and it only makes sense that one would want the sonic signature going to their speakers to also go to their sub(s) too.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The Rhythmic people said orherwise
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FYI, I reached out to Jim today and I’ll be making a stop over at his shop soon ....
Maybe even this weekend…
Checking out them SS 9.5's?
Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo IIISE Pro ES9038 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
SCompRacer wrote: »
Those are beautiful! Plus they have an open back Audio Technology midrange. DAMN!
I think its a matter of time before Salk will start offering curved tops, sides. The above would be killer with a curved top.
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SCompRacer wrote: »
Checking out them SS 9.5's?
You bet I'll be getting my ears on them
There's lots on innovation going on at Salk Sound!Dog! For sure! You da man! What pre did you get?
I went Up the Cary line, and got Joey's hand me Downs, LOLPower Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
LCD Samsung LN46B750
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Center Salk HT2C
Pre Cary SLP-05
Wires WW & MIT -
It depends on where it was Imported from!
Imported or not imported, I think you can find one you like
2 ch- Polk CRS+ * Vincent SA-31MK Preamp * Vincent Sp-331 Amp * Marantz SA8005 SACD * Project Xperience Classic TT * Sumiko Blue Point #2 MC cartridge
HT - Polk 703's * NAD T-758 * Adcom 5503 * Oppo 103 * Samsung 60" series 8 LCD -
Groan.
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Definitely dialed-in...the floor was vibrating like those dinosaurs were in the house!joecoulson wrote: » "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
Verb this is a subject that I am very familiar with. To answer your question directly? If you only want the sub for music? Get sealed.
I have heard most all of the big boys, major players, owned a few or heard them in my rig, blah, blah, blah. My favorites for movies has always been slightly more toward ported with the one exception of the custom Godzilla sub Trey built that even Russ couldn't hold down at Trey's place. That sub and Russ must have weighed in at 300 pounds and even with Russ on it, it still moved across the floor with ease. My ONLY choice for music is sealed and Direct Servo.
Before getting my two Rhythmik F-25's, my favorite sub was the VMPS Larger with upgrades that I had gotten from Trey many years back. Paired with a Velodyne SMS-1 and a Carver M1.0t (possibly a MKII, I can't recall now), that sub was amazing and the best I had never heard in any system. Yes, I said that right.
Even Bob Carver himself made the comment more than a couple of times at Carverfest one year where this particular system was featured. In fact, the number one comment on the system that year was how well the sub blended into the system. You simply could not hear it at low volume or high volume. Now when you cut it off, the entire system lost an incredible amount of its allure, air, spatial locational cues, etc....not to mention the lowest spectrum of the frequency curve.
Well, move forward a couple of years and since I could not find another VMPS Larger after Brian died, I sold it. Bought Trey's custom Tyler Acoustics stereo subs in the meantime. They were a major downgrade to what I had sold, so I started to do some serious research...
In my research, I asked Gary Koh (The owner of Genesis loudspeakers) what his subs cost.....well, they were out of my price range. I ain't rich. But he did tell me that he uses direct servo subs in his sub stacks for his top of the line speakers. Here is the rest of the story...
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/178729/dual-rythmik-f-25-direct-servo-subs-on-the-way/p1
This was the rig that was featured at Carverfest that year. Apparently the link disappeared o the other thread.
I emphatically recommend a direct servo sub, sealed for music. It doesn't so much matter the brand, just that it has direct Servo and it is sealed. To date, I still have not heard a finer set of subs anywhere. FWIW.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
~ I have found excellence ~
~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~
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joecoulson wrote: »
For your application, it is perfect. The Jurassic World scene was outstanding!
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
~ I have found excellence ~
~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~
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Apprecitate your comments and insight @treitz3 ! Tom I've been researching the Rythmik's a lot over the past few days.Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD. -
Speaker level is the only way to go, IME. REL and Velodyne have been telling people that for years and it only makes sense that one would want the sonic signature going to their speakers to also go to their sub(s) too.
Hmmm, this *may* prove to be an interesting discussion. I have heard this from folks at Polk, sub manufacturers as well as other folks in the industry. Now on the flipside, I have heard the exact opposite from the same folks, albeit different folks.
Here is my philosophy. If you have invested a considerable amount of time, research and dollars on getting your rig to perform to its optimum potential, then you add a sub.....why would you want to add another component into the chain that can/will/has the potential to lose all of the aspects of what you have been trying to achieve?
I understand that "they" say that it "just passes through with no signal loss".......uh-huh. When have any of us actually believed that? I damned sure do not. Everything affects everything.
With that said, on a HT system? Eh, going through the sub on speaker level would most likely yield better results. I will concede to that....up to a certain performance level. With a dedicated 2 channel system that has been painstakingly put together? I will have to agree to disagree. Experience tells me otherwise.
Tom
~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
~ I have found excellence ~
~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~
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You're thinking that using speaker level means connecting speaker cables from the amp to the sub, then from the sub to the speakers. While that is a possibility, albeit with very few subs, the more common method is connecting speaker cables from the amp to the speakers and another set of speaker cables from the amp to the sub. Therefore, the speakers and sub receive the exact same signal at the exact same time and the exact same sonic signature. Win-win!!!
Yes, that means the speakers are being driven full range, but so what you're driving them with an amp or integrated not some wimpy AVR, so you don't need to worry about over-taxing the power supply.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Ah, in that case it would be a win-win. Agreed. That's a little hard to do with our fancy cables and Nanner's though. Need to go back to old school to do that, unless the amp has two binding posts for speaker out.
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
~ I have found excellence ~
~ The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction ~
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Nah, it's easy to do with one set of binding posts. Use bananas for one set of cables and spades for the other.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
You're thinking that using speaker level means connecting speaker cables from the amp to the sub, then from the sub to the speakers. While that is a possibility, albeit with very few subs, the more common method is connecting speaker cables from the amp to the speakers and another set of speaker cables from the amp to the sub. Therefore, the speakers and sub receive the exact same signal at the exact same time and the exact same sonic signature. Win-win!!!
Yes, that means the speakers are being driven full range, but so what you're driving them with an amp or integrated not some wimpy AVR, so you don't need to worry about over-taxing the power supply.
What kind of load do the high level (i.e., speaker level) inputs on a powered subwoofer put on the power amplifier outputs?
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I was thinking the same thing, what does that do to the signal going to your mains? Must change or affect it in some way.
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mhardy6647 wrote: »You're thinking that using speaker level means connecting speaker cables from the amp to the sub, then from the sub to the speakers. While that is a possibility, albeit with very few subs, the more common method is connecting speaker cables from the amp to the speakers and another set of speaker cables from the amp to the sub. Therefore, the speakers and sub receive the exact same signal at the exact same time and the exact same sonic signature. Win-win!!!
Yes, that means the speakers are being driven full range, but so what you're driving them with an amp or integrated not some wimpy AVR, so you don't need to worry about over-taxing the power supply.
What kind of load do the high level (i.e., speaker level) inputs on a powered subwoofer put on the power amplifier outputs?
Nothing, the impedance is so high the amp has no idea the sub is there.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Interesting
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Thanks F1. Never thought to try that configuration when I had my Hsu. That was 90% HT though , so I used LFE only. I'll give this a try when I get a (smaller) replacement to be used with full rangers for 80% music.Study: Roon * ProJect Stream Box Ultra & Pre Box S2 * Pass ACA * DH Labs SS Q10 * Brines Folded ML-TQWT RS 40-1354
Audio: PS Audio DirectStream Jr. * Belles 20a * Pass Aleph 30 - Zu Omen DW * Sunfire Sig II - Polk SRS 2.3tl * PSAudio PP3 * MIT S3
Den: Sonore ultraRendu * Cary xCiter * Dayens Menuetto * KEF LS50 -
My sub is receiving the signal from speaker cables connected with bare wire at the posts on the integrated while the speakers are connected with BFA banana plugs on the speaker cables to the posts. Sounds good to me and I haven't measured / blended with REW yet.Audio: Von Schweikert VR-2 * Musical Fidelity M2si * Bluesound Node 2i * APC H10
Vinyl: Fluance RT82 * Bottlehead Reduction + Integration Upgrade * KAB RF1
Video: VIZIO M55Q8-H1 * Panasonic DMP-UB200 * ROKU SS+ * Z-line Designs Elektra -
I've been working with JL subwoofer for a very long time and every single time I put one in a system, calibrate it and sit down and listen I smile with joy and still surprise. I'm always waiting to find something I don't like about their sub's.
Well heck, there's tons of stuff out there. Here's another subwoofer info dump: https://audiophilereview.com/subwoofers.htmlLoving this thread! Lots of good advice here. Way more to consider than originally thought. Kinda like when I first joined this forum! Didn't know what I didn't know!
Appreciate all the comments!
Make sure to read this one in that list:
My Journey, Kicking and Screaming, Into Subwoofers
https://audiophilereview.com/subwoofers/my-journey-kicking-and-screaming-into-subwoofers.html
Also, read the opening lines from the review by the absolute sound of the JL Audio subs. They start off like this:
^ shows whats possible!JL Audio E-Sub e110 Subwoofer - Old Dog, New Trick
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/jl-audio-e-sub-e110-subwoofer/
It is no secret that I’m not a fan of subwoofers. In my experience they take away more in transparency and coherence than they pay back in low-end extension and power-handling, especially when they are mated to bass-shy two-ways or any kind of planar, ’stat, ribbon, or quasi-ribbon. (Ironically, subwoofers work best—or at least better—with speakers that don’t really need them, i.e., with dynamic speakers that already have good bass extension.) Thus, it may come as a surprise to learn that I really like JLAudio’s e110 sub, even when it is paired with a two-way. It certainly came as a surprise to me.
JL Audio Gotham Subwoofer and CR-1 Crossover - New Dog, Old Trick
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/jl-audio-gotham-subwoofer-and-cr-1-crossover/?page=3
As you know, I am not a fan of subwoofers—that is, I wasn’t a fan of subs until I ran headlong into JL Audio’s e110 about a year ago, and concluded (to my astonishment) that when this compact, affordable sub was paired with a superb two-way like the $27k Raidho D-1, it came so close to the sound of my $200k reference loudspeakers—at one-sixth their price—I could scarcely tell the difference.
Maybe you'll get a change to listed to some subs at AXPONA. Most rooms won't have them but some will.
Musically and Home theater they don't care, they do both duties as well as the other which is a tall order for most subs on the market I've calibrated.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Hmmm; I never realized that adding a bit more bottom end could be so difficult. In my case I added a single 18'' transmission line sub in a corner. I have it set on it's lowest crossover point and using the line level input I barely have it at 1/8 volume. It blends in nicely with my 1.2tl's and is noticeable only when it's turned off. I'm guessing it must be more difficult getting things right with book shelf speakers that don't go that deep?
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the more common method is connecting speaker cables from the amp to the speakers and another set of speaker cables from the amp to the sub. Therefore, the speakers and sub receive the exact same signal at the exact same time and the exact same sonic signature. Win-win!!!
This is exactly what I was planning to do. My amp has 2 sets of outputs, one XLR and one RCA.
I’m using MIT shotguns to the main speakers right now. My question is, do I need an equivalent high-quality XLR cable for the Rythmik sub?
Or use any standard “subwoof cable”?
FYI, Rythmik only provides XLR and RCA in/out connections (no speaker level connections)
TIA
GPower Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
LCD Samsung LN46B750
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Center Salk HT2C
Pre Cary SLP-05
Wires WW & MIT
