Bi-Wire LSiM 705?

imsjry
imsjry Posts: 120
in Speakers
I don't mean to start yet another conversation about the merits of bi-wiring in general. My question is specific to the LSiM 705's. Has anyone bi-wired them and found a huge sonic improvement. The manual specifically mentions the benefits of doing it so I'm now of course curious what others have experienced in their setups.

Thanks!

Preamp-Kenwood KA8004
Power Amp-B&K3030
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,781
    Replace the stock jumpers with high quality speaker cable and be happy.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • imsjry
    imsjry Posts: 120
    No one has bi-wired their LSiM’s that has an opinion on sonic improvements? I find that hard to believe on this forum. Rise up bi-wirers!
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  • Hermitism
    Hermitism Posts: 4,203
    I bi-wired my RTi8's. When I was going to order custom cables for them, it was recommended by everyone to replace the plated brass jumpers with matching cable. It ended up being cheaper to buy bi-wire cables, rather than having jumpers made with the same wire and terminations. I haven't upgraded my cables yet on my LSiM, but those speakers come with copper wire jumpers. So I'm guessing any improvements on replacing the jumpers on those would be negligible, except for systems with high end equipment, but I can't really say. Small changes are more noticeable the higher up the chain you go. I think most of the people here that use bi-wire cables did so for the purpose of eliminating the jumpers. If I'm wrong about that, I'm sure some members will jump into the conversation.
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
    Go to eBay and bid on these jumpers from Zu. I won a set @ like $26.00. Problem solved, no junk brass straps, and no extra set of cables. Biwiring to me is a huge waste of money.


    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zu-Audio-IBIS-8in-20cm-Loudspeaker-Jumper-Sets-Junk-Those-Brass-Straps/113580847575?epid=741215548&hash=item1a71f231d7:g:0NoAAOSwvt1WQ8EC:rk:1:pf:0
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
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  • imsjry
    imsjry Posts: 120
    motorhead43026 wrote: »
    Go to eBay and bid on these jumpers from Zu. I won a set @ like $26.00. Problem solved, no junk brass straps, and no extra set of cables. Biwiring to me is a huge waste of money.

    Thanks for the recommendation. So what are the benifits of these compared to the LSiM stock jumpers?

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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    I believe the stock LSIM jumpers are just fine, now bi-wiring cables (if you get them included - ie the Audioquest rocket 44's) are a jump over those IMO but only worth doing if you plan on getting an upgraded cable (not necessarily AQ) to begin with.

    Now bi-amping with two sep cables/sep amps brings a whole-nother debate to the table, and my take on that has been said in multiple threads in this forum AAA++++
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  • motorhead43026
    motorhead43026 Posts: 3,892
    edited January 2019
    ^^agree, in this case the stock jumpers are sufficient. There is still no advantage to bi-wiring, IMHO.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; LAT International speaker cables, ZU Mission IC's and power cables all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    Other; M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All vintage Polk have had crossover rebuilds and tweeter upgrades.

    The best way to predict the future is to invent it.

    It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact.

    Imagine making politics your entire personality.
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  • imsjry
    imsjry Posts: 120
    joecoulson wrote: »
    I believe the stock LSIM jumpers are just fine, now bi-wiring cables (if you get them included - ie the Audioquest rocket 44's) are a jump over those IMO but only worth doing if you plan on getting an upgraded cable (not necessarily AQ) to begin with.

    Whoa....$300 for speaker cables? I mean I'm all for the best sound possible but geez! And here I thought my Monoprice spool of 12AWG was expensive. :-(
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    Well, the Monoprice cable is $0.43 a foot. Make up some bi-wire and see if YOU can hear a difference.

    The same would hold true for $300 speaker cable. Only YOUR ears matter as to whether a difference can be heard.


    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    imsjry wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    I believe the stock LSIM jumpers are just fine, now bi-wiring cables (if you get them included - ie the Audioquest rocket 44's) are a jump over those IMO but only worth doing if you plan on getting an upgraded cable (not necessarily AQ) to begin with.

    Whoa....$300 for speaker cables? I mean I'm all for the best sound possible but geez! And here I thought my Monoprice spool of 12AWG was expensive. :-(

    Don't worry about it, your Monoprice will get the job done. If you feel like experimenting later on down the line with wire, IC's, power cords, etc. and have the money for it, and are interested in doing so, it will be there when and if you are ready.

    Right now just focus on putting your system together.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    I agree with that^ and I did say that IF you planned on getting an upgrade, that one wasn’t necessary.
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  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    Fair warning.

    The first upgrade you try, that seems to make little if any sense, and find that you heard an improvement, you will be forced to embrace the insanity. First it’s speaker cables, then more better speaker, then the rest, including power, and you keep hearing improvements. All of a sudden you install a $100 plug, that’s right, the part in the wall, and it’s over.

    Run away before it’s too late.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,432
    imsjry wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    I believe the stock LSIM jumpers are just fine, now bi-wiring cables (if you get them included - ie the Audioquest rocket 44's) are a jump over those IMO but only worth doing if you plan on getting an upgraded cable (not necessarily AQ) to begin with.

    Whoa....$300 for speaker cables? I mean I'm all for the best sound possible but geez! And here I thought my Monoprice spool of 12AWG was expensive. :-(

    Huge skeptic here on speaker cables making much difference... Until I got some Wireworld mini- eclipse' (OCC copper).
    B I G improvement like I went from Pioneer receiver to Macintosh amp (no offense to you Pioneer and Macintosh owners)
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,781
    imsjry wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    I believe the stock LSIM jumpers are just fine, now bi-wiring cables (if you get them included - ie the Audioquest rocket 44's) are a jump over those IMO but only worth doing if you plan on getting an upgraded cable (not necessarily AQ) to begin with.

    Whoa....$300 for speaker cables? I mean I'm all for the best sound possible but geez! And here I thought my Monoprice spool of 12AWG was expensive. :-(

    Drop in the bucket, son.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    What the heck,,

    yddwtukx5613.jpeg
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  • Hermitism
    Hermitism Posts: 4,203
    He can post comments but they won't be visible to us until he returns from his vacation.
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    Huh. I bet he said something to the effect of:

    “ I love bi-wiring but I LOVE bi-amping even more”
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  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    My experience with the A9's suggests there's a little something to it, though A9's not being as musical or refined a speaker it was very subtle. The bass/midbass tightened up slightly, vocals slightly less smeared, treble smoother etc etc. Worth doing as the 3500 has dual outputs anyway. Worth it otherwise? Try it with cheap cable, if you hear a difference probably worth with more expensive cable.
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

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  • skrol
    skrol Posts: 3,337
    To bi-wire or not to buy-wire, that is the question.
    Stan

    Main 2ch:
    Polk LSi15 (DB840 upgrade), Parasound: P/LD-1100, HCA-1000A; Denon: DVD-2910, DRM-800A; Benchmark DAC1, Monster HTS3600-MKII, Grado SR-225i; Technics SL-J2, Parasound PPH-100.

    HT:
    Marantz SR7010, Polk: RTA11TL (RDO198-1, XO and Damping Upgrades), S4, CS250, PSW110 , Marantz UD5005, Pioneer PL-530, Panasonic TC-P42S60

    Other stuff:
    Denon: DRA-835R, AVR-888, DCD-660, DRM-700A, DRR-780; Polk: S8, Monitor 5A, 5B, TSi100, RM7, PSW10 (DXi104 upgrade); Pioneer: CT-6R; Onkyo CP-1046F; Ortofon OM5E, Marantz: PM5004, CD5004, CDR-615; Parasound C/PT-600, HCA-800ii, Sony CDP-650ESD, Technics SA 5070, B&W DM601
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  • imsjry
    imsjry Posts: 120
    audioluvr wrote: »
    imsjry wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    I believe the stock LSIM jumpers are just fine, now bi-wiring cables (if you get them included - ie the Audioquest rocket 44's) are a jump over those IMO but only worth doing if you plan on getting an upgraded cable (not necessarily AQ) to begin with.

    Whoa....$300 for speaker cables? I mean I'm all for the best sound possible but geez! And here I thought my Monoprice spool of 12AWG was expensive. :-(

    Huge skeptic here on speaker cables making much difference... Until I got some Wireworld mini- eclipse' (OCC copper).
    B I G improvement like I went from Pioneer receiver to Macintosh amp (no offense to you Pioneer and Macintosh owners)

    Whoa. For what those wires cost I would certainly hope you heard a night and day improvement! I had no idea $400 speaker wires existed. Kind of wish I didn’t know!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,781
    $60,000.00 speaker cables exist.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    Did Jesse comment???
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  • afterburnt
    afterburnt Posts: 7,892
    Can Jesse comment?
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,781
    Hi Bruce B)
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Inspector 24
    Inspector 24 Posts: 1,308
    Does it matter if Jesse comments?
    Up
    LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000

    Down
    LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
    Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
    Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,781
    edited January 2019
    Inspector 24 wrote: »
    Does it matter if Jesse comments?

    Only if you don't want to learn from the Master.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
    imsjry wrote: »
    audioluvr wrote: »
    imsjry wrote: »
    joecoulson wrote: »
    I believe the stock LSIM jumpers are just fine, now bi-wiring cables (if you get them included - ie the Audioquest rocket 44's) are a jump over those IMO but only worth doing if you plan on getting an upgraded cable (not necessarily AQ) to begin with.

    Whoa....$300 for speaker cables? I mean I'm all for the best sound possible but geez! And here I thought my Monoprice spool of 12AWG was expensive. :-(

    Huge skeptic here on speaker cables making much difference... Until I got some Wireworld mini- eclipse' (OCC copper).
    B I G improvement like I went from Pioneer receiver to Macintosh amp (no offense to you Pioneer and Macintosh owners)

    Whoa. For what those wires cost I would certainly hope you heard a night and day improvement! I had no idea $400 speaker wires existed. Kind of wish I didn’t know!

    Not a lot really, depending on what speakers your hooking them up to. Cables can run over 10g's, but you'd only be running those on speakers that cost well over 20g's.

    Everything is relative, just like you wouldn't put a 40 buck fiberglass tire on a Corvette.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • imsjry
    imsjry Posts: 120
    edited January 2019
    I always just read about the gadge and to use copper when I googled “does speaker wire matter?” but had no idea there was audiophile market wire out there. Damn, now I’m more curious in that then bi-wiring.
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  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,966
    imsjry wrote: »
    I always just read about the gadge and to use copper when I googled “does speaker wire matter?” but had no idea there was audiophile market wire out there. Damn, now I’m more curious in that then bi-wiring.

    You’ll definitely get more benefit from good wire and jumpers Than bi-wiring.....
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:     Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
    Bedroom 2.1    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
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  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited January 2019
    imsjry wrote: »
    I had no idea $400 speaker wires existed. Kind of wish I didn’t know!
    Well, there are millionaire and billionaire audiophiles out there. However, most audiophiles types are not rich. I bet there are some that make $250K-$300K with just under a million dollar net worth that own some of these cables.
    Make sure you are sitting down...

    https://mitcables.com/acc-series-articulation-control-console/

    https://successstory.com/spendit/most-expensive-audio-cables

    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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