Bi-Wire LSiM 705?
Comments
-
I guess I’ll have to stay blissfully ignorant with my Monoprice copper 12 gadge unless someone wants to loan me their $400 cables for a while 😉.
Meanwhile, I’m loving the 705s with less then 50 hours in so far. Still curious about bi-wirering but doesn’t sound like a resounding call from the group to do it. It’s interesting the manual has a whole section about it. -
There's a number of good write-ups on the subject that delve into the science of it. Here's a couple that I found worth the read.
https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/
https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/audio/biwire/Page1.htmlUp
LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
Down
LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500 -
Ok so dumb newbie question here. Can I just run an additional set of my bare Monoprice wire from the left and right outs of my B&K amp to test the bi-wire or do I need specific bi-wire cables?
-
Ok so dumb newbie question here. Can I just run an additional set of my bare Monoprice wire from the left and right outs of my B&K amp to test the bi-wire or do I need specific bi-wire cables?
Why would you do that rather than just run a little of the same wire between the binding posts???Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
Ok so dumb newbie question here. Can I just run an additional set of my bare Monoprice wire from the left and right outs of my B&K amp to test the bi-wire or do I need specific bi-wire cables?
Why would you do that rather than just run a little of the same wire between the binding posts???
Because I'm dumb?! I though for bi-wire you run two sets of Left and right outputs from your amp, one going to the top speaker posts and the other set going to the bottom posts. Apparently I have that all wrong? -
Ok so dumb newbie question here. Can I just run an additional set of my bare Monoprice wire from the left and right outs of my B&K amp to test the bi-wire or do I need specific bi-wire cables?
Why would you do that rather than just run a little of the same wire between the binding posts???
Because I'm dumb?! I though for bi-wire you run two sets of Left and right outputs from your amp, one going to the top speaker posts and the other set going to the bottom posts. Apparently I have that all wrong?
You have it correct. See my links I posted above, there may be some benefit to bi-wiring, whether you can hear it or not is up to you.
Up
LSi15 LSiC - RX-V3000
Down
LSiM707 - 706c - 702f/x - Dual HSU VTF-15H Mk2
Parasound HCA-3500 - HCA-2003A - Marantz SR7005
Sim2 D60 - Dragonfly 106" Panny 500 -
Ok so dumb newbie question here. Can I just run an additional set of my bare Monoprice wire from the left and right outs of my B&K amp to test the bi-wire or do I need specific bi-wire cables?
Why would you do that rather than just run a little of the same wire between the binding posts???
Because I'm dumb?! I though for bi-wire you run two sets of Left and right outputs from your amp, one going to the top speaker posts and the other set going to the bottom posts. Apparently I have that all wrong?
If you are running two sets of cable from the same binding posts on the amp to the two sets of binding posts on the speakers, I cannot conciever of there being any difference between that and just putting the same wire between the binding posts on the speakers imho...Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es
Game Room 5.1.4: Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra
Bedroom 2.1 Harmon Kardon HK3490; Bluesounds Node N130; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer -
I have a question.............Why would you need an expensive and exotic jumper cable?
Expanding on Rooftop59's question. Seems to me you can use the exact same wire the speaker uses internally (AKA common copper hookup wire). Would 2-3 inches of extra hookup wire really make a difference?
Where was that post of the $14,000 jumper cable? -
I think that wire carries a much smaller voltage because it comes after the crossover and might be insufficient gauge.Seems to me you can use the exact same wire the speaker uses internally (AKA common copper hookup wire). -
Many like to use the same wire for jumpers as they use for speaker wire. Some will size and terminate it themselves, others buy pre-terminated directly from the manufacturer.
Stock jumpers, bare wire, manufactured terminated, its the individuals preference. Many of us believe that upgrading the stock jumpers is one of the least expensive and noticeable improvements one can make. Others think it’s a waste of time/money.
Some reasonably priced as well as expensive wire on The Cable Company website. -
I guess that brings up another question.......
The leads on an expensive film cap are well under 22 ga and might be smaller that 26.
By the time you solder everything on the board you have at least 6 inches if 22 ga or smaller tinned copper solid wire in the signal path. And last time i looked at the main inductor coming into the speaker it has many many yards of a very small gauge wire wrapped up.
If I told you you can use a few inches of 22 ga solid wire as a jumper you would think I was crazy. But that is what is happening internally just a few inches after the binding posts.
I guess people only think about parts that they can see.
-
Ok so dumb newbie question here. Can I just run an additional set of my bare Monoprice wire from the left and right outs of my B&K amp to test the bi-wire or do I need specific bi-wire cables?
Why would you do that rather than just run a little of the same wire between the binding posts???
Because I'm dumb?! I though for bi-wire you run two sets of Left and right outputs from your amp, one going to the top speaker posts and the other set going to the bottom posts. Apparently I have that all wrong?
If you are running two sets of cable from the same binding posts on the amp to the two sets of binding posts on the speakers, I cannot conciever of there being any difference between that and just putting the same wire between the binding posts on the speakers imho...
Sorry, but what do you mean by “putting the same wire between the binding posts on the speakers”? Are you saying to connect wire connecting the top and bottom posts instead of how the jumpers are now? Not following you.... -
Imo, biwiring is not the benefit. The way 4 wires are twisted are the benefit. Case in point, take a shotgun pair (using jumpers) with the same twist as a biwire pair and I would challenge you cant hear a difference.
When we ate lunch with Al Ballard of Polk Audio some 10 years ago, he openly claimed the main driver to biwire was marketing.
When I do crossovers, it would be easy to make something tri wire, Bi Wire, quad wire if applicable at the end of the day the wire goes all to the same places, you are effectively making one big jumper. Now biamping with a crossover at the signal level, that's a different discussion.
You can also install jumpers with Bi Wire cables to see what I mean about shotgun versus bi wire- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
And I’m hoping to a/b test with you here Trey on Bi-amping passively and showing the difference.
-
I'm not saying biwire cables are not better, I'm saying shotgun and biwire cables are equal. It's all in the twist 😜- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
-
Let me clarify. I am hoping to show everyone there is a benefit to bi-amping without an active crossover in front of the amps. Will be nice to have more ears here and their opinions.
Looking forward to it. -
I think that would vary speaker to speaker, but I think you would still hear an improvement by removing the bass frequencies from the upper Amp at a minimum.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
-
I want to talk to you about that when you come because it might be something minimal in the signal path that I could have you build.
-
I don't know the crossover point of your speakers, but most 3way around 100hz or higher. This should work without double filtering
FMOD Crossover Pair 70 Hz High Pass https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006N41JW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_3rtsCbCR4GJ5E
But this would be experimental more so than permanent- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
The mid comes in at 200hz
-
Yep, id pick up those 70hz too see if it works in your system...can always return if not
For me, I am a purist 2 channel guy. My current setup is streamer, dac, Amp, speakers.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
I guess that brings up another question.......
The leads on an expensive film cap are well under 22 ga and might be smaller that 26.
By the time you solder everything on the board you have at least 6 inches if 22 ga or smaller tinned copper solid wire in the signal path. And last time i looked at the main inductor coming into the speaker it has many many yards of a very small gauge wire wrapped up.
If I told you you can use a few inches of 22 ga solid wire as a jumper you would think I was crazy. But that is what is happening internally just a few inches after the binding posts.
I guess people only think about parts that they can see.
Ok. Let me put this in the " male" perspective. Audiophile speaker wire is like comparing a Chrysler 300 with the big block 440 ( large gauge low grade copper wire) to an Italian Indy car with only a 1.8L 4 cyl engine that produces 1200 hp. One attracts one drunk fat toothless chick where the other attracts thousands of gorgeous supermodels. Both do generally the same thing but which makes the experience more pleasurable?Gustard X26 Pro DAC
Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)
There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus -
I guess that brings up another question.......
The leads on an expensive film cap are well under 22 ga and might be smaller that 26.
By the time you solder everything on the board you have at least 6 inches if 22 ga or smaller tinned copper solid wire in the signal path. And last time i looked at the main inductor coming into the speaker it has many many yards of a very small gauge wire wrapped up.
If I told you you can use a few inches of 22 ga solid wire as a jumper you would think I was crazy. But that is what is happening internally just a few inches after the binding posts.
I guess people only think about parts that they can see.
The signal also goes through the pre amp internals, the interconnects and the amplifier internals first. That does not mean getting the signal to the crossover as best as possible is not paramount. Try using some 26 gauge speaker cable, then some well known high quality speaker cable. That will answer your question rather quickly.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I always just read about the gadge and to use copper when I googled “does speaker wire matter?” but had no idea there was audiophile market wire out there. Damn, now I’m more curious in that then bi-wiring.
More to it than just gauge and copper has many different variations as well. Like anything you google, you'll get the pro's and cons, but what's the truth ?
Truth is....you have to experiment some for yourself as best your own wallet allows. Just like everything in audio.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
motorhead43026 wrote: »Go to eBay and bid on these jumpers from Zu. I won a set @ like $26.00. Problem solved, no junk brass straps, and no extra set of cables. Biwiring to me is a huge waste of money.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zu-Audio-IBIS-8in-20cm-Loudspeaker-Jumper-Sets-Junk-Those-Brass-Straps/113580847575?epid=741215548&hash=item1a71f231d7:g:0NoAAOSwvt1WQ8EC:rk:1:pf:0
Aren't those a little on the long side? I'm finding the stock ones about 4 inches give or take. I thought about picking up a set to see if it makes any difference.
-
motorhead43026 wrote: »Go to eBay and bid on these jumpers from Zu. I won a set @ like $26.00. Problem solved, no junk brass straps, and no extra set of cables. Biwiring to me is a huge waste of money.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zu-Audio-IBIS-8in-20cm-Loudspeaker-Jumper-Sets-Junk-Those-Brass-Straps/113580847575?epid=741215548&hash=item1a71f231d7:g:0NoAAOSwvt1WQ8EC:rk:1:pf:0
Aren't those a little on the long side? I'm finding the stock ones about 4 inches give or take. I thought about picking up a set to see if it makes any difference.
Fit and look just fine on my S60 Signatures. I had them terminated with bananas. You really need the extra length to not put strain on the teminations. YMMV not knowing what your speakers are. Anyway, I noticed a difference from the brass straps. Plus they give you a 60 day trial period.The best way to predict the future is to invent it.
It is imperative that we recognize that an opinion is not a fact. -
motorhead43026 wrote: »motorhead43026 wrote: »Go to eBay and bid on these jumpers from Zu. I won a set @ like $26.00. Problem solved, no junk brass straps, and no extra set of cables. Biwiring to me is a huge waste of money.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zu-Audio-IBIS-8in-20cm-Loudspeaker-Jumper-Sets-Junk-Those-Brass-Straps/113580847575?epid=741215548&hash=item1a71f231d7:g:0NoAAOSwvt1WQ8EC:rk:1:pf:0
Aren't those a little on the long side? I'm finding the stock ones about 4 inches give or take. I thought about picking up a set to see if it makes any difference.
Fit and look just fine on my S60 Signatures. I had them terminated with bananas. You really need the extra length to not put strain on the teminations. YMMV not knowing what your speakers are. Anyway, I noticed a difference from the brass straps. Plus they give you a 60 day trial period.
Picked up a set of 4 spade 5/16 jumpers for $25 shipped. Will see if they will make any difference from the stock 705 jumpers.
-
motorhead43026 wrote: »motorhead43026 wrote: »Go to eBay and bid on these jumpers from Zu. I won a set @ like $26.00. Problem solved, no junk brass straps, and no extra set of cables. Biwiring to me is a huge waste of money.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zu-Audio-IBIS-8in-20cm-Loudspeaker-Jumper-Sets-Junk-Those-Brass-Straps/113580847575?epid=741215548&hash=item1a71f231d7:g:0NoAAOSwvt1WQ8EC:rk:1:pf:0
Aren't those a little on the long side? I'm finding the stock ones about 4 inches give or take. I thought about picking up a set to see if it makes any difference.
Fit and look just fine on my S60 Signatures. I had them terminated with bananas. You really need the extra length to not put strain on the teminations. YMMV not knowing what your speakers are. Anyway, I noticed a difference from the brass straps. Plus they give you a 60 day trial period.
Picked up a set of 4 spade 5/16 jumpers for $25 shipped. Will see if they will make any difference from the stock 705 jumpers.
I'll be curious to read your results. I thought I read the LSiM series used very good quality jumpers. -
motorhead43026 wrote: »motorhead43026 wrote: »Go to eBay and bid on these jumpers from Zu. I won a set @ like $26.00. Problem solved, no junk brass straps, and no extra set of cables. Biwiring to me is a huge waste of money.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Zu-Audio-IBIS-8in-20cm-Loudspeaker-Jumper-Sets-Junk-Those-Brass-Straps/113580847575?epid=741215548&hash=item1a71f231d7:g:0NoAAOSwvt1WQ8EC:rk:1:pf:0
Aren't those a little on the long side? I'm finding the stock ones about 4 inches give or take. I thought about picking up a set to see if it makes any difference.
Fit and look just fine on my S60 Signatures. I had them terminated with bananas. You really need the extra length to not put strain on the teminations. YMMV not knowing what your speakers are. Anyway, I noticed a difference from the brass straps. Plus they give you a 60 day trial period.
Picked up a set of 4 spade 5/16 jumpers for $25 shipped. Will see if they will make any difference from the stock 705 jumpers.
I'll be curious to read your results. I thought I read the LSiM series used very good quality jumpers.
So far seems a bit cleaner. But they do recommend 400 hours to burn in. Might be placebo but they are well made. The spade doesn’t go all the way around like the Polk jumper and were a little longer. This is how I connected the wires so they don’t stick out the sides. Spade heart lol
