Parasound, Bryston, McCormack?

pkquat · June 2018

I currently have a Parasound P5, and a Parasound 2250. My planned last / dream amp has been a SMc McCormack DNA-250. I have yet to find one near by, and overall seam pretty rare. Before McCormack, I was hoping to find a Bryston 4B (ST, SST, SST2). I've heard mixed reviews between the SST and SST2. The original 4B is aged, so I am scratching that off the list. Since I got the Parasound stuff, I've kept my eyes out for an A21 for a decent deal. I have also wondered about JC1's. Those may be over kill. Belles Reference has also been mentioned, but I think they didn't have a ~250W/Ch version.

Any recomendations, other amps, rankings, best deal between them, used price check?

General pricings seem to be
McCormack $1600-2200 <$1400 deal price
Bryston 4bST $1500-2000 <$1300 deal price
Bryston SST(2) $2000+ <$1700 deal price
Parasound A21 $1500-2000 <$1300 deal price
Parasound JC1 (pair) $3500-5000 <$3000 deal price

All opinions appreciated.

jumpindick · June 2018

I used to have Parasound A21. I loved it, and it drove two RTiA9s well. Then I got McCormack DNA500 in place of A21. And things became much better. The depth/clarity went up and the effect became more crisp. I have not seen the one with 250W..

gmcman · June 2018

FWIW, I found a McCormack DNA-1 that was originally a mono amp and I had SMC (McCormack) convert to stereo. I believe the initial purchase was about $300 then the mods were $3200 to a platinum status.

I was using a B&K 200.2 which is a very respectable amp.....but the DNA-1 is a substantial upgrade.

As I change out cables and components the DNA-1 responds to any upgrades and seems to never run out of steam.

It's the single, largest upgrade I've made, and I'm confident I haven't seen it's full potential yet..it keeps responding to every change I've made.

tonyb · June 2018

I think everyone knows my feelings on this. Get a McCormick and don't look back. Also highly recommend the Butler TBD 2250....which may even be better than the McCormick.

halo · June 2018

I can concur on the McCormack amps. I had a Rotel RB980, a Parasound A23, two TAD60's (tube amps), Sanders ESL amp, the McCormack DNA-125, a Parasound A23, a B&K ST125.2, a B&K Reference 2220, & the McCormack DNA-125 is, by far, the most musical of the bunch. The soundstage is wider, taller, and deeper with the McCormack. The DNA delivers solid, accurate, bass while providing a very warm, lush, midrange. There's plenty of detail on top but, thankfully, it's never sibilant.

daddyjt · June 2018

I use a McCormack DNA 250, and it drives all of my speakers effortlessly - from the Legacy 20/20, to the Polk SDA SRS, to the Infinity Kappa 9, I couldn’t ask for more. It never even gets hot driving the wild impedance load of the Infinities.

Sound quality is superb, and build quality is top notch. Highly recommended.

kharp1 · June 2018

I concur with Halo, as I was able to have his McCormack in my system for a time. Very nice experience. Unless you have a troubling load you could save some change and go with a 125. Prior to having the DNA-125 I had the A21. I'd pick the McCormack any day.

marvda1 · June 2018

here's a butler on audiocircle.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158231.msg1690627#new

gmcman · June 2018

Two DNA-1's on A'gon.

DNA-1

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9036h-mccormack-dna-1-stereo-power-amplifier-solid-state

DNA-1 Deluxe

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9084f-mccormack-dna-1-deluxe-solid-state

I believe both share these specs:

DNA Technical Specifications:

Output Power at Clipping, both channels driven RMS Watts per channel: 185 Watts @ 8 ohms, 370 Watts @ 4 ohms, 600 Watts @ 2 ohms
Output Current: 50 Amps peak, per channel

MrBuhl · June 2018

I'd have to vote McCormack as well - though full disclosure, I haven't owned Parasound or Bryston, but after two McCormacks, you can't go wrong.

tonyb · June 2018

marvda1 wrote: »

here's a butler on audiocircle.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158231.msg1690627#new

That's a decent price, someone should snag that and pair it with a tubed pre.

11tsteve · June 2018

I have had Parasound, B&K, Acurus, Conrad-Johnson, NAD, and now have a 20 watt class A N.E.W. A-20.
While I do enjoy the A-20, of all these amps, my McCormack DNA .5 with Platinum upgrades would be my amp... all day long and twice on Sundays.
There was really something special about that amp, and given my money situation and because I could probably never afford anything better, it was an end-game product.
Should not have sold it.....

pkquat · June 2018

TY for the replies.

For the speakers I have, 250W seems to be a decent amount. Even with the 1C's, 100-125W systems strained. The 2.3's appear to be the most power hungry, and my current 250W amp handles things good. I notice the power difference, so that is my target.

I've had/have a 100W Krell KAV-300i, a Parasound A23, an old Hafler DH-220 I used with the 1C's. The A23 sounded the best, but still struggles when the volume goes up. The Parasound 2250 is 2nd for the overall sound and punch. It doesn't struggle. The Krell was great, but the high end fell apart when the volume went up. The Hafler is not as open airy, or detailed compared to the others, but very underrated power wise or maybe it's the load handling. And although the bass drops some, the rest stays consistent, but it started from a lower bar so ???. The Hafler is still my favorite for the bass sound. If I ever got a 3-way system, I'd be temped to bi-amp and use it for the bass amp.

I'll check on the Butler, TY. I was never aware of them. Shipping may be the $$ issue.

All the McCormack responses remind me why I had that at the top of my list. I am a little surprised it beats out the JC1's with such margin.

I thought I had a list of the McCormack models, older and newer, and which ones to look for based on power, but I can't find it. Maybe it was on here. There were a few of the originals that were preferred today, even with their age, and some older ones that were a recommended option to send in to SMc if the price was right.

I need to bookmark this so I don't ask again.

tonyb · June 2018

I've had/have a 100W Krell KAV-300i, a Parasound A23, an old Hafler DH-220 I used with the 1C's. The A23 sounded the best, but still struggles when the volume goes up

When you say "when the volume goes up"....how far up are we talking.

MrBuhl · June 2018

^^ LOL My thoughts exactly ^^ honestly all of those should drive 2.3's without much issue shouldn't they? Not that they will all sound good, but that must be quite an SPL you're looking for!

gmcman · June 2018

@pkquat what area do you live in? I wouldn't sweat the wpc too much. Yes, you need ample watts, but avail amps is just as important if not more.

pitdogg2 · June 2018

it's all about the current...

dkfreebird · June 2018

I've been using a McCormack DNA 0.5 Deluxe with my 1.2tl's and it never runs out of steam.I have a refurbished Sunfire Signature that puts out about 850 watts a channel into four ohms but the McCormack just flat out sounds better to me.

tonyb · June 2018

Another happy McCormack owner ^^^^. I should have worked on commission dang it.

Hey pal, pm me your addy, got somethin' for you.

pkquat · June 2018

tonyb wrote: »

I've had/have a 100W Krell KAV-300i, a Parasound A23, an old Hafler DH-220 I used with the 1C's. The A23 sounded the best, but still struggles when the volume goes up

When you say "when the volume goes up"....how far up are we talking.

MrBuhl wrote: »

^^ LOL My thoughts exactly ^^ honestly all of those should drive 2.3's without much issue shouldn't they? Not that they will all sound good, but that must be quite an SPL you're looking for!

pitdogg2 wrote: »

it's all about the current...

lol Points taken. When I got the 1C's I finally had a speaker that had some bass and could pump out the volume. They were also the start of the rabbit hole to better sound and better gear. All the comparisons were done on the stock 1C's. At lower volumes other speakers were used as well. It was a learning experience too. Unless I am mistaken, all the amps are decent high current amps.

At times I do enjoy live or rock concert volume. I never bottomed the MW's on the 1C's when doing the comparisons (Although it has happened to one driver when using them for HT duty without a sub. One of the drivers is a little more active than the rest. Volume levels were readjusted so it no longer happens, and I'll get a good sub eventually). Back in the day my M4A's did occasionally suffer some abuse, so I know the sound, and also got very good at approaching the limits without passing them. I also used to give them a 50Hz and below boost back then.

Back to the 1C's. My Hafler drove them fine, but it was hinted and recommended it might be under powered, and that there were better and cleaner amps out there. The Krell was the first one that came into the mix. I noticed some of the old Haflers short comings in the mids and highs. I also had noticed that when pushed the bass punch dropped a little with the Hafler. In theory the Krell should have been more than enough. When pushed the bass did maintain more impact than the Hafler, but the highs got distorted.

200+ quality watts was mentioned so I was keeping . I stumbled onto a deal for a P5 and the 2250. I had seen and heard many good things about the P5 on here, so that was a bonus in my journey down the rabit hole. I compared the variable out on a older top of the line Denon CD player to the P5, and also using the Krell as an amp or preamp. I didn't notice much difference, so for simplicity and commonality, the P5 became the primary preamp.

At moderate volumes the Krell may have been better, but overall IMO the 2250 was a little more musical, and the Krell seamed a little harsh on more than just the 1C's. At volume the 2250 blew me away.

I then an the A23 became a package deal with something else I wanted. At standard volumes it was more musical, refined, and clearer than the 2250. At volume the bass dropped a little compared to 2250, and the mids and highs seamed on par with the 2250. I also had to drive the preamp harder with the A23.

From other info here and the experiences, I figured with ~250 good watts I'd always have more than enough for any the Polk speakers, and many others for that matter. It would also never be in the back of my mind if I was reaching the limits of the amp.

So far in the journey I have heard what most have been hearing as improvements are made, but I think I am getting closer to my discernible limit. The McCormack would likely be the end of the amp tunnel in the rabbit hole.

gmcman wrote: »

@pkquat what area do you live in? I wouldn't sweat the wpc too much. Yes, you need ample watts, but avail amps is just as important if not more.

I'm in the upper midwest.

motorhead43026 · June 2018

This would be a good score, one or both. Look to be in like new condition. Not mine, and no affiliation.

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/ele/d/parasound-hca-2200-mkii/6588711259.html

pkquat · June 2018

motorhead43026 wrote: »

This would be a good score, one or both. Look to be in like new condition. Not mine, and no affiliation.

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/ele/d/parasound-hca-2200-mkii/6588711259.html

TY the price is nice, but shipping or the drive would be too much. A Bryston 4B had come up in my area twice for a moderate / high price. I think it finally sold. A 4B SST2 recently has shown up every 2-3 months for the past 6 months, but the price has been high. It finally dropped a little. A pair of JC1's, maybe the same ones showed up again, but I don't think I could get them for the deal price, and they would be overkill. Plus the consensus has been on the McCormack. So far the group here has steered me right.

motorhead43026 · June 2018

The Mac is nice but make no mistake the 2200mk 2 has John Curls DNA all over it. These are exceptional sounding amps. I do understand all the other obstacles. I just threw it out there in case you were somewhat close.

indyhawg · June 2018

DSkip wrote: »

I've been wanting to give this amp a whirl:

https://www.dayens.rs/eng_ecstasy4.html

It isn't cheap, but I like what they do with everything else I've had from them.

That looks very interesting. Loved the Ampino I had.

jayu969 · October 2018

Hearing lots of good things with the McCormack amps here...had an A21 and if it is better than that I definitely want to try one at some point.

Parasound, Bryston, McCormack?

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