Parasound, Bryston, McCormack?

in Electronics
I currently have a Parasound P5, and a Parasound 2250. My planned last / dream amp has been a SMc McCormack DNA-250. I have yet to find one near by, and overall seam pretty rare. Before McCormack, I was hoping to find a Bryston 4B (ST, SST, SST2). I've heard mixed reviews between the SST and SST2. The original 4B is aged, so I am scratching that off the list. Since I got the Parasound stuff, I've kept my eyes out for an A21 for a decent deal. I have also wondered about JC1's. Those may be over kill. Belles Reference has also been mentioned, but I think they didn't have a ~250W/Ch version.
Any recomendations, other amps, rankings, best deal between them, used price check?
General pricings seem to be
McCormack $1600-2200 <$1400 deal price
Bryston 4bST $1500-2000 <$1300 deal price
Bryston SST(2) $2000+ <$1700 deal price
Parasound A21 $1500-2000 <$1300 deal price
Parasound JC1 (pair) $3500-5000 <$3000 deal price
All opinions appreciated.
Any recomendations, other amps, rankings, best deal between them, used price check?
General pricings seem to be
McCormack $1600-2200 <$1400 deal price
Bryston 4bST $1500-2000 <$1300 deal price
Bryston SST(2) $2000+ <$1700 deal price
Parasound A21 $1500-2000 <$1300 deal price
Parasound JC1 (pair) $3500-5000 <$3000 deal price
All opinions appreciated.
Comments
I was using a B&K 200.2 which is a very respectable amp.....but the DNA-1 is a substantial upgrade.
As I change out cables and components the DNA-1 responds to any upgrades and seems to never run out of steam.
It's the single, largest upgrade I've made, and I'm confident I haven't seen it's full potential yet..it keeps responding to every change I've made.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1430
Tad 803 speakers
Vinyl: Fluance RT82 * Nagaoka MP-110 * Bottlehead Reduction + Integration Upgrade * KAB RF1
Vinyl II: Audio Technica AT-LP120X USB * AT120EB * ART DJ Pre II * Acrylic Turntable Mat
Video: Hisense 55H8F * Panasonic DMP-UB200 * ROKU Premiere * Z-line Designs Elektra
Sound quality is superb, and build quality is top notch. Highly recommended.
Currently enjoying: Legacy Focus 20/20, McCormack DNA 225, Bill D C1, Oppo 105
Joule-Electra LA 100 MKIII Upgraded by Rich Brkich Pre
Butler Audio TBD 2250 Amp
PS Audio DirectStream DAC and MemoryPlayer Transport
LSA-1 Statement
SVS SB4000 & SB2000
Wireworld Equinox 7 bi-wire, Wireworld Silver Eclipse 7 IC
Secondary Rig:
Parasound P5, Audio Electronics by Cary Constellation
Marsh a200s, Audio Elecrtonics by Cary Hercules
Pioneer Elite DV-45a, Denon DVD-2910
Klipsch Epic CF-1, Vandersteen 3CE sig
Analysus Plus Oval
Backup Gear:
Pass Labs Aleph 30, McCormack DNA-125, Parasound A21
Marantz SA-14S1
Usher CP-6311/Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference Monitor, LSA-1
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158231.msg1690627#new
Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
Transport/Dac: L.K.S MH-DA004, North Star Design USB dac32, Cayin Venus cd-100i,
Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkI
Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra
Speaker Cables: Organic Audio Organic 2, Analysis Plus Black Mesh Oval 9,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Interconnects: Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval, Analysis Plus Copper Oval-In Micro,
Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme
Power Cables by: Cullen Cables, 6sons Audio, Swiss Cables
DNA-1
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9036h-mccormack-dna-1-stereo-power-amplifier-solid-state
DNA-1 Deluxe
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9084f-mccormack-dna-1-deluxe-solid-state
I believe both share these specs:
DNA Technical Specifications:
Output Power at Clipping, both channels driven RMS Watts per channel: 185 Watts @ 8 ohms, 370 Watts @ 4 ohms, 600 Watts @ 2 ohms
Output Current: 50 Amps peak, per channel
VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
Polk SDA1c modded
Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded)
A/L 1000VA Dreadnought Canare 4s11 SDA cable
SACD Marantz DV8300
Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD
Yamaha YP-D6
Soundcraftsmen PCR800
Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
Pho-700 Phono Pre
Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's
That's a decent price, someone should snag that and pair it with a tubed pre.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1430
Tad 803 speakers
While I do enjoy the A-20, of all these amps, my McCormack DNA .5 with Platinum upgrades would be my amp... all day long and twice on Sundays.
There was really something special about that amp, and given my money situation and because I could probably never afford anything better, it was an end-game product.
Should not have sold it.....
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
For the speakers I have, 250W seems to be a decent amount. Even with the 1C's, 100-125W systems strained. The 2.3's appear to be the most power hungry, and my current 250W amp handles things good. I notice the power difference, so that is my target.
I've had/have a 100W Krell KAV-300i, a Parasound A23, an old Hafler DH-220 I used with the 1C's. The A23 sounded the best, but still struggles when the volume goes up. The Parasound 2250 is 2nd for the overall sound and punch. It doesn't struggle. The Krell was great, but the high end fell apart when the volume went up. The Hafler is not as open airy, or detailed compared to the others, but very underrated power wise or maybe it's the load handling. And although the bass drops some, the rest stays consistent, but it started from a lower bar so ???. The Hafler is still my favorite for the bass sound. If I ever got a 3-way system, I'd be temped to bi-amp and use it for the bass amp.
I'll check on the Butler, TY. I was never aware of them. Shipping may be the $$ issue.
All the McCormack responses remind me why I had that at the top of my list. I am a little surprised it beats out the JC1's with such margin.
I thought I had a list of the McCormack models, older and newer, and which ones to look for based on power, but I can't find it. Maybe it was on here. There were a few of the originals that were preferred today, even with their age, and some older ones that were a recommended option to send in to SMc if the price was right.
I need to bookmark this so I don't ask again.
When you say "when the volume goes up"....how far up are we talking.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1430
Tad 803 speakers
VA 2 Channel Focal Electra 926 speakers, Pass Labs X150.5 Amp, Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp (Tutay mods), Eastern Electric Minimax CDP (Scott Nixon mods), Music Hall mmf 5.1 Turntable, Parks Audio Budgie Phono Pre , Audioengine B1 streamer, MIT S3 IC's / MIT Shotgun S3 Speaker Cables / PS Audio power cables
Noggin Schiit Valhalla, Pangea, Phillips Fidelio X1, Polk UF8000
Polk SDA1c modded
Polk CRS+ 4.1TL modded (need veneer)
Polk SDA2BTL (fully modded)
A/L 1000VA Dreadnought Canare 4s11 SDA cable
SACD Marantz DV8300
Sony S9000ES CD/DVD/SACD
Yamaha YP-D6
Soundcraftsmen PCR800
Audible Illusions L1 Preamp
Vincent MFA based Cocci Tube Preamp
Pho-700 Phono Pre
Signal Cable Silver Resolution IC's
Polk 1.2tl's Fully modded with dreadnought
Rogue Atlas Magnum
Rogue Magnum 66
North Star Intenso Dac
Marantz UD 7007
Pangea PC
Wireworld Equinox 7 interconnects
Wireworld Equinox 7 Speaker Cables and Jumpers
Home theater
Marantz SR 5009 Sunfire Signature 425x5-B&W Cdm1nt Cdm Center Channel
Backups Polk Monitor 5 peerless,2.3tl,SRS2 pin/blade,Polk Crs+ pin/blade with stands.McCormack Dna 0.5 Deluxe,Dared Sl 2000A,Dayens Ampino
Hey pal, pm me your addy, got somethin' for you.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1430
Tad 803 speakers
https://www.dayens.rs/eng_ecstasy4.html
It isn't cheap, but I like what they do with everything else I've had from them.
lol Points taken. When I got the 1C's I finally had a speaker that had some bass and could pump out the volume. They were also the start of the rabbit hole to better sound and better gear. All the comparisons were done on the stock 1C's. At lower volumes other speakers were used as well. It was a learning experience too. Unless I am mistaken, all the amps are decent high current amps.
At times I do enjoy live or rock concert volume. I never bottomed the MW's on the 1C's when doing the comparisons (Although it has happened to one driver when using them for HT duty without a sub. One of the drivers is a little more active than the rest. Volume levels were readjusted so it no longer happens, and I'll get a good sub eventually). Back in the day my M4A's did occasionally suffer some abuse, so I know the sound, and also got very good at approaching the limits without passing them. I also used to give them a 50Hz and below boost back then.
Back to the 1C's. My Hafler drove them fine, but it was hinted and recommended it might be under powered, and that there were better and cleaner amps out there. The Krell was the first one that came into the mix. I noticed some of the old Haflers short comings in the mids and highs. I also had noticed that when pushed the bass punch dropped a little with the Hafler. In theory the Krell should have been more than enough. When pushed the bass did maintain more impact than the Hafler, but the highs got distorted.
200+ quality watts was mentioned so I was keeping . I stumbled onto a deal for a P5 and the 2250. I had seen and heard many good things about the P5 on here, so that was a bonus in my journey down the rabit hole. I compared the variable out on a older top of the line Denon CD player to the P5, and also using the Krell as an amp or preamp. I didn't notice much difference, so for simplicity and commonality, the P5 became the primary preamp.
At moderate volumes the Krell may have been better, but overall IMO the 2250 was a little more musical, and the Krell seamed a little harsh on more than just the 1C's. At volume the 2250 blew me away.
I then an the A23 became a package deal with something else I wanted. At standard volumes it was more musical, refined, and clearer than the 2250. At volume the bass dropped a little compared to 2250, and the mids and highs seamed on par with the 2250. I also had to drive the preamp harder with the A23.
From other info here and the experiences, I figured with ~250 good watts I'd always have more than enough for any the Polk speakers, and many others for that matter. It would also never be in the back of my mind if I was reaching the limits of the amp.
So far in the journey I have heard what most have been hearing as improvements are made, but I think I am getting closer to my discernible limit. The McCormack would likely be the end of the amp tunnel in the rabbit hole.
I'm in the upper midwest.
https://cleveland.craigslist.org/ele/d/parasound-hca-2200-mkii/6588711259.html
All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.
Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.
Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant
tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there
Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
TY the price is nice, but shipping or the drive would be too much. A Bryston 4B had come up in my area twice for a moderate / high price. I think it finally sold. A 4B SST2 recently has shown up every 2-3 months for the past 6 months, but the price has been high. It finally dropped a little. A pair of JC1's, maybe the same ones showed up again, but I don't think I could get them for the deal price, and they would be overkill. Plus the consensus has been on the McCormack. So far the group here has steered me right.
All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.
Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.
Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant
tonyb said " but even socialists can do a good thing here and there
Social media makes dumb people dumber and smart people dumb then dumber.
That looks very interesting. Loved the Ampino I had.