Try a tubed Pre with the SS amp you have now. No need to buy 2 pieces off the bat.
I think you should have said, you need to buy 2 pieces that are BAT. (see above post).
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers: "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
This picture makes me want to go tubes all the more. The cool factor is just out of this world
Well, that was (of course) my intent; my work is done here
This being said - the amp and preamp shown would not be a good match for your loudspeakers. It's a single-ended 2A3 amplifier (3.5 watts per channel) with no negative feedback.
I did not see that. I texted the guy and hit him at 800, if I can get it for that I think it would be worth it either way, even if I did not like it in the long run
Looks like the seller dropped the price to $800 Zach. Hit him up again!
I used to have family in Wall, NJ. Though I wouldn't trust them to ship a brick, let alone a tube integrated, LOL!
I did speak to him. I offered 800 and he agreed but then told me he was very unsure of the operational state of the amp and I got a little weary. If it is still around this weekend, I may take a quick trip up there and take a look at it
2 Channel - Major reduction complete
KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs
I did speak to him. I offered 800 and he agreed but then told me he was very unsure of the operational state of the amp and I got a little weary. If it is still around this weekend, I may take a quick trip up there and take a look at it
Keep in mind, it may need to be re-tubed. NOS tubes is where it's at brotha. If you have a small set of bookies and some short extra speaker wire, bring 'em to test it out with.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1430
Tad 803 speakers
I don't know much about this particular amplifier (the Rogue) but, by and large, the vacuum tube amplifiers are phenomenally simple devices -- easy to troubleshoot & repair (and very forgiving of things like power surges). As long as the transformers are all OK, there's not much to be afraid of in terms of buying an iffy amplifier.
Now, this isn't to say that any needed repairs will be inexpensive -- but they should be straightforward.
As to tubes, yes, there are many ills (some pretty serious) that can be caused by tired or bad tubes. This said, even modern production vacuum tubes are pretty robust little gizmos (despite anti-tube marketing used in the 1960s to sell the consumer the benefits of glorious transistor sound). The output tubes can certainly get tired -- especially if a given amp runs them "hard" (near, or past, their specified operating limits). And tired/bad output tubes can have a multitude of effects, from audible degradation to damage of other components. But they're also easy to change (if not necessarily cheap)!
The small signal tubes (phase splitters, preamp tubes, and voltage amp/driver tubes) - again, given prudent circuit design - can and should last for thousands (even 10s of thousands of hours).
Especially for small signal tubes, if an amplifier has, e.g., one weak channel, or noise in one channel, an easy & valuable troubleshooting tool is to simply swap tubes between channels, and see if the "trouble" follows a tube,
This approach can also work for power amp tubes, but in some amplifier circuits, rebiasing may be required. I don't know what bias scheme the Rogue amps use, sorry.
I hope this soliloquy is reassuring and not just incomprehensible
Good luck!
EDIT: Oh, two things about testing "unknown" tube amplifiers.
1) Always connect a load to the outputs -- either test speakers or dummy loads (8 ohm power resistors, ideally noninductive ones). Transformer-coupled amplifiers don't like open circuits, and output transformers tend to be expensive.
2) Be on the lookout for red plating output tubes. A number of pathological conditions can result in one (or more) output tubes dissipating way more power than they're meant to. In such a case, the tube's plate structure can get red hot. This is a sign of pretty severe trauma; don't operate an amplifier with a red plating tube (or tubes)!
The problem could just be a tired tube that cannot hold bias, or a bad coupling capacitor, or issues with the bias supply circuit (or the bias level, if adjustable) -- but it's bad, bad, bad.
Make yourself necessary to someone. Ralph Waldo Emerson
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
I'm getting real jealous over here. I'm going to listen to a few integrated amps over the weekend from Primaluna and LM. Kevin from upscale audio says the Focal and Primaluna combo is magical and he seems to be someone with a wealth of knowledge.
2 Channel - Major reduction complete
KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs
I'm going to listen to a few integrated amps over the weekend from Primaluna and LM. Kevin from upscale audio says the Focal and Primaluna combo is magical and he seems to be someone with a wealth of knowledge.
BTW, I can vouch for the sonic performance of all three amps (OK, four, but two are identical) in the photos above. Two are the products of local gurus; the pair in the rack are Langevin theatre amplifiers.
Got my ears on a few amps today. I went down to Command Performance AV in the DC area. The guys there were awesome and they had a lot of cool stuff. I went because I saw they were a line magnetic dealer, but they didn't have anything in stock. They were also rogue and primaluna dealers which I was not expecting.
They had a set of Focal 926's setup in a room and I was able to listen to the Primaluna Prologue Premium which was initially one of the three integrated amps I was considering. I was initially very impressed, seemed like it matched perfectly with the Focals as I had heard (read: no brightness to speak of). I liked the tonal quality and the imaging/soundstage was impressive. I very much enjoyed the hour or so I listened to this combo. The big drawback and in the end the reason I will not be getting this amp is the lacking bass. I was obviously expecting this vice when I heard the focals with 300 watts on tap but it was a bigger difference than I was prepared for.
I then made the mistake of listening to the Primaluna Dialogue HP which has 80 watts per channel (and a 4500 price tag ). All the qualities of the prologue that I liked were still present with much more defined and ample bass. I only listened to a few songs as this amp is well outside of my price range and I didn't want to be tempted to do something stupid.
So with this I now know that a 30ish WPC tube amp probably won't be able to satisfy my listening tastes. So I am keeping my TEAC for the time being and will be mulling over Tube Pre/SS amp or maybe saving for something like the Dialogue HP. I really want to find a combo I will love for a long time. That may still be the Teac, just need to give it a chance with the Focals, or I may give Mike's SLP-03 a shot when he is ready to let it go
2 Channel - Major reduction complete
KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs
If you really want to torture yourself, talk to Skip about the tube amps Matersound sells hehehehe.....
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
Got my ears on a few amps today. I went down to Command Performance AV in the DC area. The guys there were awesome and they had a lot of cool stuff. I went because I saw they were a line magnetic dealer, but they didn't have anything in stock. They were also rogue and primaluna dealers which I was not expecting.
They had a set of Focal 926's setup in a room and I was able to listen to the Primaluna Prologue Premium which was initially one of the three integrated amps I was considering. I was initially very impressed, seemed like it matched perfectly with the Focals as I had heard (read: no brightness to speak of). I liked the tonal quality and the imaging/soundstage was impressive. I very much enjoyed the hour or so I listened to this combo. The big drawback and in the end the reason I will not be getting this amp is the lacking bass. I was obviously expecting this vice when I heard the focals with 300 watts on tap but it was a bigger difference than I was prepared for.
I then made the mistake of listening to the Primaluna Dialogue HP which has 80 watts per channel (and a 4500 price tag ). All the qualities of the prologue that I liked were still present with much more defined and ample bass. I only listened to a few songs as this amp is well outside of my price range and I didn't want to be tempted to do something stupid.
So with this I now know that a 30ish WPC tube amp probably won't be able to satisfy my listening tastes. So I am keeping my TEAC for the time being and will be mulling over Tube Pre/SS amp or maybe saving for something like the Dialogue HP. I really want to find a combo I will love for a long time. That may still be the Teac, just need to give it a chance with the Focals, or I may give Mike's SLP-03 a shot when he is ready to let it go
Said this early on....ss amp, tube pre. You get the bass slam of the SS muscle and the tone and air of the tubes. Makes for an enjoyable experience with any genre of music.
Look for a Joule would be my suggestion. Cary is nice also, depending on the model. My opinion though, is for the price Joule's go for on the used markets, you'd be hard pressed to do better. Down the line, add a Butler amp and I can't imagine anyone not liking that combination.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1430
Tad 803 speakers
I think that is the direction I'll be eventually going. I've heard very mixes reviews on the SP-03 but for a grand it seems to be a decent deal. Add something like a B&K reference amp for now or find a Mccormack and I'm in for the around the same price as the integrated I have. What Joule models should I be looking for? a quick perusal of Audiogon shows nothing out there at the moment.
2 Channel - Major reduction complete
KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs
Comments
I think you should have said, you need to buy 2 pieces that are BAT. (see above post).
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
Well, that was (of course) my intent; my work is done here
This being said - the amp and preamp shown would not be a good match for your loudspeakers. It's a single-ended 2A3 amplifier (3.5 watts per channel) with no negative feedback.
Looks like the seller dropped the price to $800 Zach. Hit him up again!
I used to have family in Wall, NJ. Though I wouldn't trust them to ship a brick, let alone a tube integrated, LOL!
KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs
Keep in mind, it may need to be re-tubed. NOS tubes is where it's at brotha.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1430
Tad 803 speakers
Now, this isn't to say that any needed repairs will be inexpensive -- but they should be straightforward.
As to tubes, yes, there are many ills (some pretty serious) that can be caused by tired or bad tubes. This said, even modern production vacuum tubes are pretty robust little gizmos (despite anti-tube marketing used in the 1960s to sell the consumer the benefits of glorious transistor sound). The output tubes can certainly get tired -- especially if a given amp runs them "hard" (near, or past, their specified operating limits). And tired/bad output tubes can have a multitude of effects, from audible degradation to damage of other components. But they're also easy to change (if not necessarily cheap)!
The small signal tubes (phase splitters, preamp tubes, and voltage amp/driver tubes) - again, given prudent circuit design - can and should last for thousands (even 10s of thousands of hours).
Especially for small signal tubes, if an amplifier has, e.g., one weak channel, or noise in one channel, an easy & valuable troubleshooting tool is to simply swap tubes between channels, and see if the "trouble" follows a tube,
This approach can also work for power amp tubes, but in some amplifier circuits, rebiasing may be required. I don't know what bias scheme the Rogue amps use, sorry.
I hope this soliloquy is reassuring and not just incomprehensible
Good luck!
EDIT: Oh, two things about testing "unknown" tube amplifiers.
1) Always connect a load to the outputs -- either test speakers or dummy loads (8 ohm power resistors, ideally noninductive ones). Transformer-coupled amplifiers don't like open circuits, and output transformers tend to be expensive.
2) Be on the lookout for red plating output tubes. A number of pathological conditions can result in one (or more) output tubes dissipating way more power than they're meant to. In such a case, the tube's plate structure can get red hot. This is a sign of pretty severe trauma; don't operate an amplifier with a red plating tube (or tubes)!
The problem could just be a tired tube that cannot hold bias, or a bad coupling capacitor, or issues with the bias supply circuit (or the bias level, if adjustable) -- but it's bad, bad, bad.
The EL34 on the left is red-plating pretty severely; it's push-pull pal on the right is also red-plating, though not as much.
This is an unhappy amplifier.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1430
Tad 803 speakers
Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ & Pro 11+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS* Twisted Pear Buffalo III Dual Mono ESS Sabre32 DAC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
Hey, I was trying to encourage him!
And I was gettin' caffeinated for the day...
That's a lotta mica and rods and stuff -- looks like a ballistic missile grade toob to me.
Decware Zen SE-84B (single-ended EL84 stereo amp)
The back office of a McIntosh MR-67 tuner
The first two photos were taken by our son:
http://icouldbeahero.blogspot.com
KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs
Sounds good!
sweet.
https://sanantonio.craigslist.org/ele/d/yaqin-mc-13s-tube-amplifier/6450075562.html
Sun room: DIY Nelson Pass B1 w/Korg NuTube pre, Logitech Bluetooth, DIY EL34 amp, JBL C50 Olympus speakers with custom Smith horns, Mapleshade Samson rack
Den: Onkyo TX-NR929 receiver, Oppo BDP-103 player, Panamax M5400-PM power, Behringer EP 4000 sub amp, Electrovoice DX-38 active, Klipsch Jubilee speakers, Martin Logan Cinema center, JBL SAT2 surrounds, Danley DTS-10 sub
Dining room: Shanling CD-T1500 SACD, Sumo Athena pre, SST Ampzilla 2000 amps, Quad 2905 speakers
They had a set of Focal 926's setup in a room and I was able to listen to the Primaluna Prologue Premium which was initially one of the three integrated amps I was considering. I was initially very impressed, seemed like it matched perfectly with the Focals as I had heard (read: no brightness to speak of). I liked the tonal quality and the imaging/soundstage was impressive. I very much enjoyed the hour or so I listened to this combo. The big drawback and in the end the reason I will not be getting this amp is the lacking bass. I was obviously expecting this vice when I heard the focals with 300 watts on tap but it was a bigger difference than I was prepared for.
I then made the mistake of listening to the Primaluna Dialogue HP which has 80 watts per channel (and a 4500 price tag
So with this I now know that a 30ish WPC tube amp probably won't be able to satisfy my listening tastes. So I am keeping my TEAC for the time being and will be mulling over Tube Pre/SS amp or maybe saving for something like the Dialogue HP. I really want to find a combo I will love for a long time. That may still be the Teac, just need to give it a chance with the Focals, or I may give Mike's SLP-03 a shot when he is ready to let it go
KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs
KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs
KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs
Too bad. Biamplification wouldn't be a bad way to get the best of both worlds if you're set on keeping the loudspeakers.
Heck, even I use soiled state amplification for the subwoofer.
Said this early on....ss amp, tube pre. You get the bass slam of the SS muscle and the tone and air of the tubes. Makes for an enjoyable experience with any genre of music.
Look for a Joule would be my suggestion. Cary is nice also, depending on the model. My opinion though, is for the price Joule's go for on the used markets, you'd be hard pressed to do better. Down the line, add a Butler amp and I can't imagine anyone not liking that combination.
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1430
Tad 803 speakers
KEF LS50W I Rega P6 w/ Ania MC I Rega Fono MC I Audience Ohno ICs