Which capacitor brands, and why...???

24

Comments

  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    O-Kay, just an update, to resurrect my own almost Dead Thread.

    I finally ordered some capacitors. In order to keep the budget down (or so I thought), I ordered Axon True Caps, from Parts Connexion (they were on sale), for all of the shunt caps. Though, for the 350uF cap, I ordered a 330uF Mundorf E-Cap, and will parallel that with a 20uF Axon.

    Now, the all-important series capacitors; I ordered all Mundorf PP's, from Sonic Craft. EVO Oil's for the 4, 6, 24, and 80 series values, plus a few Supremes. So, a 3.9uF Oil for the 4uF. I have 0.1uF AuriCaps and Russian PIO's if needed. The 6uF, is a 3.9uF Oil + a 2.2uF Supreme. The all important UMR dome is a 22uF EVO Oil and a 2.2uF Supreme Silver Oil. Finally, the 80uF is a 33uF and a 47uF Oil. Plus, another 0.47uF Supreme, as a bypass. I picked up Mills resistors, new binding posts, and some Sonic Barrier to damp the woofer baskets too. Maybe a internal cabinet new brace, behind the lower mid chamber, some light sanding, and done! Easy!
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,125
    Why so many different caps? Why not stick with one line of caps? What happens if some of these caps don't work well together? How will you know which one is the culprit?

    I understand using one line for the low pass to save some coin, but I am perplexed as to why so many different types and brands for the rest?

    Just curious as to how you came to this decision as it's out of the norm since each cap will impart it's own flavor..............that's a lot of "flavors".

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • motorhead43026motorhead43026 Posts: 3,319
    Should have just left them stock.
    2 channel: Anthem 225 Integrated amp; Parasound Ztuner; TechnicsTT SL1350; Vincent PHO-8 phono pre; Marantz CD6005 spinner; Polk SDA2BTL's; Cables ZU Mission IC's, SC and power cords, all into a PS Audio Dectet Power center.

    All TV's sound enhanced by Polk Magnfi Mini's.

    Other; S60'S, M10 series II, M7C's, Hafler XL600 amp, RB-980BX, Parasound HCA-1500 amp , P5 preamp, all in storage. All speakers have had crossover rebuilds, resulting in a small fortune invested in Sonicaps, and tweeter upgrades.

    Political memes posted as fact and accepted as fact, are sign language of the ignorant, for the ignorant

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  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,730
    I must agree with heiney9. Not to mention when you use better caps there is no need for the bypass caps anymore.

  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    edited March 2017
    Should have just left them stock.

    Why? NPE's do have a finite lifespan. Plus, I'd rather replace a capacitor, than an even more expensive and hard (nearly impossible) to find driver.
  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Why so many different caps? Why not stick with one line of caps? What happens if some of these caps don't work well together? How will you know which one is the culprit?

    I understand using one line for the low pass to save some coin, but I am perplexed as to why so many different types and brands for the rest?

    Just curious as to how you came to this decision as it's out of the norm since each cap will impart it's own flavor..............that's a lot of "flavors".

    H9

    There are 8 capacitors each per speaker. One brand for the series, and one brand for the parallel values. That seems simple to me.
  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I must agree with heiney9. Not to mention when you use better caps there is no need for the bypass caps anymore.

    Some capacitors had to be paralleled to reach their required values. No way around that. I'm only bypassing the 80uF capacitor. Many designers feel this is beneficial, as it improves the discharge rate of the larger value.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,966
    When using film and foil caps, bypass caps are of no benefit like they can be with electrolytics. In fact, doing so creates annoying artifacts.

    Sonic Barrier is not the correct material for damping the baskets.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    edited March 2017
    F1nut wrote: »
    When using film and foil caps, bypass caps are of no benefit like they can be with electrolytics. In fact, doing so creates annoying artifacts.

    So much contradictory info out there. One designer advocates the use of bypass caps, on large values, and others say not to do it. Heck, even Sonic Craft manufactures a line of bypass caps. If they just create artifacts, why the Platinum's? Just trying to understand!
    F1nut wrote: »
    Sonic Barrier is not the correct material for damping the baskets.

    Sonic Barrier has their own version of Dynamat. That's what I'm using.

  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,966
    edited March 2017
    You could have obtained the correct values using Sonicaps.

    4uF, check
    6uF, check
    24uF, check
    80uF, use three 27 and ask them to custom value the 3 as close as possible to obtain 80uF.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    edited March 2017
    I looked at and read up on as many brands as possible. Just trying to educate myself on variables. But, in the end, I mostly followed the recommendations of Jeff at Sonic Craft. I figured he was expert enough for me. The only mention from him, for a SoniCap, was a 4uF cap, in the treble circuit. Jeff thought the Mundorf's would work best for the other values. So, I ordered all Mundorf, to be consistent.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,966
    edited March 2017
    StimpyWan wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    When using film and foil caps, bypass caps are of no benefit like they can be with electrolytics. In fact, doing so creates annoying artifacts.

    So much contradictory info out there. One designer advocates the use of bypass caps, on large values, and others say not to do it. Heck, even Sonic Craft manufactures a line of bypass caps. If they just create artifacts, why the Platinum's? Just trying to understand!
    F1nut wrote: »
    Sonic Barrier is not the correct material for damping the baskets.

    Sonic Barrier has their own version of Dynamat. That's what I'm using.

    Because bypass caps can be of benefit when used with electrolytics.

    Ah, I wasn't aware of that.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    F1nut wrote: »
    StimpyWan wrote: »
    F1nut wrote: »
    When using film and foil caps, bypass caps are of no benefit like they can be with electrolytics. In fact, doing so creates annoying artifacts.

    So much contradictory info out there. One designer advocates the use of bypass caps, on large values, and others say not to do it. Heck, even Sonic Craft manufactures a line of bypass caps. If they just create artifacts, why the Platinum's? Just trying to understand!
    F1nut wrote: »
    Sonic Barrier is not the correct material for damping the baskets.

    Sonic Barrier has their own version of Dynamat. That's what I'm using.

    Because bypass caps can be of benefit when used with electrolytics.

    Ah, I wasn't aware of that.

    Danny Richie, of GR Research, stated on his AC Forum, that he likes to use bypass caps, on large values, for the improved discharge dissipation. And Danny is a SoniCap seller and fan too. So, who knows?

    Yea, the Sonic Barrier, at Parts Express seems good, and is much less expensive than Dynamat. Hope it works.

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,458
    the idea of bypass capacitors, as I understand it, is to ensure a low ESR pathway for the broadest possible range of frequencies. Since paralleling a large capacitance with a small one is additive (and thus, from the standpoint of the crossover frequency more or less negligible) -- in a generic sense, a bypass cap should be a do no harm addition that can do some good (by improving the bandwidth of a low resistance pathway for the signal).

    This being said, I'll stay out of the issue as to whether it's a good or bad idea to bypass boutique capacitors, as I frankly don't know. I happily defer to folks who do! :)

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,458
    (ahem) I will say as an aside that I have been, recently, been having entirely too much fun playing with oil-filled capacitors that probably are expensive enough to amount to a down payment for a decent automobile -- needless to say, the caps are on loan to me (not mine)!


    33722835425_356edb2df3_b.jpgDSC_7330 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    the idea of bypass capacitors, as I understand it, is to ensure a low ESR pathway for the broadest possible range of frequencies. Since paralleling a large capacitance with a small one is additive (and thus, from the standpoint of the crossover frequency more or less negligible) -- in a generic sense, a bypass cap should be a do no harm addition that can do some good (by improving the bandwidth of a low resistance pathway for the signal).

    This being said, I'll stay out of the issue as to whether it's a good or bad idea to bypass boutique capacitors, as I frankly don't know. I happily defer to folks who do! :)

    Well, I'm in a lucky position, concerning my recap. I have a spare set of crossovers, and a spare set of dome mids. So, I can change caps, and add or remove bypass capacitors, to test the sound quality of the combinations, prior to actually installing anything in the cabinets. All in the name of science!
  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    (ahem) I will say as an aside that I have been, recently, been having entirely too much fun playing with oil-filled capacitors that probably are expensive enough to amount to a down payment for a decent automobile -- needless to say, the caps are on loan to me (not mine)!


    33722835425_356edb2df3_b.jpgDSC_7330 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    I like...! :smile:
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,458
    StimpyWan wrote: »

    Well, I'm in a lucky position, concerning my recap. I have a spare set of crossovers, and a spare set of dome mids. So, I can change caps, and add or remove bypass capacitors, to test the sound quality of the combinations, prior to actually installing anything in the cabinets. All in the name of science!

    Cool -- I am all about good science, needless to say.
    StimpyWan wrote: »

    I like...! :smile:

    :) Yeah, huh?

    Problem is, I'd have to sell the loudspeakers to afford the caps to use on 'em. Sort of an O. Henry-esque dilemma, you know ;)

    They're on loan to use as a reference point in comparing other (mere mortal) caps on the FrankenAltecs. My lord, the WE capacitors perform XO duties smooooooooooooooothly and sweetly.

  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,730
    Well Jeff is in the know, who am I to question that. Keep us posted show your work if you care to. I'd like to see.
  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    Well Jeff is in the know, who am I to question that. Keep us posted show your work if you care to. I'd like to see.

    Thanks. That's pretty much how I felt about it too. But, I did wonder about trying SoniCaps on the tweeter. Just didn't have an unlimited budget. Maybe later, as funds allow.
  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    StimpyWan wrote: »

    Well, I'm in a lucky position, concerning my recap. I have a spare set of crossovers, and a spare set of dome mids. So, I can change caps, and add or remove bypass capacitors, to test the sound quality of the combinations, prior to actually installing anything in the cabinets. All in the name of science!

    Cool -- I am all about good science, needless to say.
    StimpyWan wrote: »

    I like...! :smile:

    :) Yeah, huh?

    Problem is, I'd have to sell the loudspeakers to afford the caps to use on 'em. Sort of an O. Henry-esque dilemma, you know ;)

    They're on loan to use as a reference point in comparing other (mere mortal) caps on the FrankenAltecs. My lord, the WE capacitors perform XO duties smooooooooooooooothly and sweetly.

    I wondered if you were using those on horns. Any pics of the FrankenAltecs?
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,125
    Using bypass caps is a personal preference. I think it generates artifacts and to me, it's not worth the extra expense.

    To each their own.

    Have fun, keep us posted

    h9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Using bypass caps is a personal preference. I think it generates artifacts and to me, it's not worth the extra expense.

    To each their own.

    Have fun, keep us posted

    h9

    Thanks. I have some 0.1 AuriCaps, some of the K40Y-9 (I think) Russian PIO caps, and some Dayton Film & Foil caps, to play with. None were super expensive (eBay finds), so if they work, Great, if not, little harm done. I'll save them for when I recap with NPE's.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,458
    edited March 2017
    StimpyWan wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    StimpyWan wrote: »

    Well, I'm in a lucky position, concerning my recap. I have a spare set of crossovers, and a spare set of dome mids. So, I can change caps, and add or remove bypass capacitors, to test the sound quality of the combinations, prior to actually installing anything in the cabinets. All in the name of science!

    Cool -- I am all about good science, needless to say.
    StimpyWan wrote: »

    I like...! :smile:

    :) Yeah, huh?

    Problem is, I'd have to sell the loudspeakers to afford the caps to use on 'em. Sort of an O. Henry-esque dilemma, you know ;)

    They're on loan to use as a reference point in comparing other (mere mortal) caps on the FrankenAltecs. My lord, the WE capacitors perform XO duties smooooooooooooooothly and sweetly.

    I wondered if you were using those on horns. Any pics of the FrankenAltecs?

    Pictures? :blush:

    umm, yeah...

    So this is nearing a final configuration. It's a long story, parts of which are floatin' around this forum already.

    The Altec Duplex 604 family of coaxial drivers is one of the best sounding midrange speakers extant :) It lacks extension at either end (especially in the treble) and while it can do a nice 3D image (as a stereo pair, that is!) it's one of those "head in a vise" things -- the sweet spot for the best stereo is pretty narrow.

    So, long story short, I've been dinking around with alternatives for the treble but still using the woofer section of the Duplex (mostly because I don't happen to have a pair of Altec 515 woofers just gatherin' dust here someplace).

    So: Woofer sections of the 604Es (which are roughly equivalent to 515s) still in 8 ft^3 vented cabinets. 604E treble drivers (essentially 288s) disconnected.

    Treble provided by Altec 802D drivers mounted to Emilar EH500-2 horns (or JBL 2441 2" drivers... that's another story entirely).
    Supertweetage provided by Fostex T90A bullet horns.

    Crossovers are first order on all three drivers. 500 (or 600, or so) Hz for the woofer and treble driver, nominal 20kHz for the supertweeter. Pads on the treble and supertweeter drivers to match them to the less-sensitive woofers.

    Not perfect, but nice -- and dollar per dollar pretty amazing with 3.5 watts per channel (SE 2A3).

    Sorry, that wasn't too concise, was it?

    :neutral:

    32398306483_0167502d15_b.jpgDSC_7250 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

    (OK, so they're not very photogenic -- but I do intend to pad the tops of the cabinets with something better than an old beach towel, or an old flannel shirt. Honest.)


    32117260771_0308a13ae3_b.jpgDSC_6844 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,966
    StimpyWan wrote: »
    I looked at and read up on as many brands as possible. Just trying to educate myself on variables. But, in the end, I mostly followed the recommendations of Jeff at Sonic Craft. I figured he was expert enough for me. The only mention from him, for a SoniCap, was a 4uF cap, in the treble circuit. Jeff thought the Mundorf's would work best for the other values. So, I ordered all Mundorf, to be consistent.

    Jeff has likely forgotten more about caps than I'll ever know. That said, I disagree with him about using bypass caps, which he knows as we've talked about it. At first they make the sound more vibrant for lack of a better term, but then you realize every piece of music has that attribute, which you then realize is not something you hear listening to live music. They are adding an artifact, which becomes annoying as hell in short order.

    Dont get me wrong, Mundorf's are very nice caps, but it doesn't make sense to use them when Sonicap has basically every exact value required. You'd likely save money and more importantly, real estate.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    F1nut wrote: »
    StimpyWan wrote: »
    I looked at and read up on as many brands as possible. Just trying to educate myself on variables. But, in the end, I mostly followed the recommendations of Jeff at Sonic Craft. I figured he was expert enough for me. The only mention from him, for a SoniCap, was a 4uF cap, in the treble circuit. Jeff thought the Mundorf's would work best for the other values. So, I ordered all Mundorf, to be consistent.

    Dont get me wrong, Mundorf's are very nice caps, but it doesn't make sense to use them when Sonicap has basically every exact value required. You'd likely save money and more importantly, real estate.

    I agree on the size, the Mundorf's are huge! I'm definitely glad the crossovers are spread across 2 boards. Plus, plenty of room inside the cabinet, if needed?

  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 23,458
    edited March 2017
    Seems to me that, at some point, huge-mongous boutique XO components installed internally might start to decrease the internal volume of a loudspeaker cabinet enough to be worth thinking about.
  • lightman1lightman1 Posts: 10,501
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Seems to me that, at some point, huge-mongous boutique XO components installed internally might start to decrease the internal volume of a loudspeaker cabinet enough to be worth thinking about.

    Do like @treitz3 and build a bigass box outside of the enclosure. Presto! Volume is still within tolerence!
  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    edited March 2017
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Seems to me that, at some point, huge-mongous boutique XO components installed internally might start to decrease the internal volume of a loudspeaker cabinet enough to be worth thinking about.

    Hey, I've seen some of the big modded Polk crossovers popular here! If they don't cause an adverse affect to bass response, due to decreased internal volume, I don't think my cap upgrade will...! We're talk'n 44x14x15" (3.18 cu. ft.) sized cabinets after all. The Mundorf's aren't THAT big. :'(

  • StimpyWanStimpyWan Registered User Posts: 49
    lightman1 wrote: »
    mhardy6647 wrote: »
    Seems to me that, at some point, huge-mongous boutique XO components installed internally might start to decrease the internal volume of a loudspeaker cabinet enough to be worth thinking about.

    Do like @treitz3 and build a bigass box outside of the enclosure. Presto! Volume is still within tolerence!

    I've thought about that...!!! Maybe I'll leave that for Round 2?
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