Started the surgery on the 2.3TLs -plus a wiring question

2

Comments

  • nikoniknikonik Posts: 118
    F1nut wrote: »
    Black or blue are always positive.
    White or green are always negative.

    That said, the diagram above for the right channel has the color positions reversed. Black or blue will be on the left side of the driver. White or green on the right side as you look at the speaker.

    Do yourself a huge favor, install Blackhole 5 while you have them open.

    About a year ago, I had one piece of tape fall off that went to the wire marker speaker and I referenced the schematic to help me. I noticed that the schematic was reversed in the drawing and I ended up just following the polarity of all the other drivers. Your in good hands with F1.
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,120
    Just got home with my 2.3TL's.
    My first impression is that they look bigger than their dimensions.
    Wow.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...SDA-1A (Fully Modded with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,120
    Decided to run a polarity check using a battery before hooking them up. One SDA driver on the right side was dead. Pulled the driver and found that the connector had fallen off. All drivers functional now and polarity is correct.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...SDA-1A (Fully Modded with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • boston1450boston1450 Posts: 6,323
    Isnt that nice when, its that easy. Congrats on your new addition
    ...
    ...
    Randy / Maine
    SDA-CRS+ 198 tweeters. WMG upgraded crossovers.
    Larry's rings. Stands w/Polk Logo & Spiked nicely
    RTA15TL 198 tweeters. WMG upgraded crossovers.
    Larry's rings. Gloss tops shine. Spiked nicely
    Cs1000p-Yamaha-Parasound-Acurus
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  • PolkieManPolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    I had small children when I 1st got mine 1990 , fear of them falling one one of them forced me to use the Bass Brace, still using it.
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,120
    waxman, did you get your polarity issues solved. I have not had the chance to pull drivers and take a look at wire colors. As I posted above the battery test is quick and easy.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...SDA-1A (Fully Modded with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
    yep, surgery is complete and the patient is doing (sounding) well!
  • stones89stones89 Posts: 225
    Waxman - Pops here. How did your refurbish go? I just put some 23.tl's back in service I have had since FDR was the Pres. They sound great. Can't find my IC but never used it anyway….
    Basis 2200 Signature, Vector 4, Transfiguration Proteus, Allnic H3000, CJ ET5, McIntosh 501's, Thiel CS6, 3.6, MIT EVO, Wywires PC's
  • stones89 wrote: »
    Can't find my IC but never used it anyway….
    If you can find the IC cable, they'll sound even greater, the way they were engineered to sound.

    SDA SRS 1.2TL's
    SDA 1C's w/Clarity Cap ESA; PA, Mills, RD0194-1's
    SDA 2B TL's w/RD0198-1's
    Yaqin MC-30L integrated tube amp
    Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,021
    stones89 wrote: »
    Waxman - Pops here. How did your refurbish go? I just put some 23.tl's back in service I have had since FDR was the Pres. They sound great. Can't find my IC but never used it anyway….

    that's too bad you have no idea what your missing. might as well just use one speaker.
  • stones89stones89 Posts: 225
    Well, I have looked everywhere and cannot find it. I would love to have it to experiment if nothing else. I have not used these speakers in a very long time, they sound great in my room as is. I remember in the past mostly having the IC out and preferring it that way. I do not think these IC's are available from what I have read….crap!
    Basis 2200 Signature, Vector 4, Transfiguration Proteus, Allnic H3000, CJ ET5, McIntosh 501's, Thiel CS6, 3.6, MIT EVO, Wywires PC's
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,453
    edited February 2017
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    stones89 wrote: »
    Waxman - Pops here. How did your refurbish go? I just put some 23.tl's back in service I have had since FDR was the Pres. They sound great. Can't find my IC but never used it anyway….

    that's too bad you have no idea what your missing. might as well just use one speaker.

    THIS....BIG TIME!!!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • treitz3treitz3 Posts: 13,034
    Wow, no doubt! That cable is an essential part of the SDA's. To go without is akin to taking a shot of whiskey....without the whiskey. You are missing the good stuff.

    Tom
    In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

    The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to good analogue reproduction.
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,108
    edited February 2017
    They must be set-up properly also. I get the distinct impression the guy not ever using the umbilical cord probably never set them up correctly and then decided it wasn't needed. Because I'm not sure how one would strongly prefer to have the cable disconnected.

    Even if the SDA sound isn't for you, disconnecting the cord makes them sound thin and closed in. Not at all like a normal speaker, not sure how that is a preferred sound.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,021
    could always make a cord to test the effect. The right way would be to change out the plug sockets, but I feel that might be a bit more than you want to under take. One other would be find a bullet connector that fits tight or cut the outer petals of a RCA plug that has a split inner pin your could expand a little. use good 16ga speaker cable you only need the pin part not the blade part.
  • stones89stones89 Posts: 225
    They were in my listening room for many years driven by a Classe amp. It was a small room so i did not really get the SDA effect. I did however use the IC. I moved to a new house and had a much bigger room where I started using them as more conventional speakers with and without the IC. I did hear some interesting effects but overall it was not what I was after, comparing my sound to other high end speakers. Plus, my room though large, was probably not optimum. About 5 years ago I built out a Rives designed room and never heard them in there until a couple of days ago.

    My next move was Thiel 3.6, my dream speaker for years. I also own the CS6 so I am a dyed in the wool Thiel fan. I put in the 2.3tl's more out of curiosity than anything and realized I really miss the beautiful midrange, and leading edge of bass. I am driving them with Mcintosh 501 mono's now and I do not believe I could use the IC anyway due to the common ground rule.

    I have them 4 feet from the front wall, 9 feet apart and about 2.5 from the side walls. They do not sound thin and closed in - in my room. They sound open, spacious, detailed, with that glorious midrange. I know most like them placed close to the front wall and the bass does light up but they lose the depth. So I will continue to move them around even though I think I found the sweet spot. I was a Polkie before Polkie was kool!
    Basis 2200 Signature, Vector 4, Transfiguration Proteus, Allnic H3000, CJ ET5, McIntosh 501's, Thiel CS6, 3.6, MIT EVO, Wywires PC's
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,021
    closer to the wall get better low end and yes with mono bloc's no cable unless you build a isolation transformer. 4' out from the wall is a bit much for SDA's
  • heiney9heiney9 Posts: 24,108
    8-12" from the back wall is optimum as well has the distance between each speaker should be about the same distance that your listening position is.

    SDA's aren't for everyone. Sell them and go for the Thiel's if that's your cup of tea.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass

    Pass Aleph 30 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Plus DAC | MIT Shotgun S3 | MIT Z P/C's | updated SDA 1C| SQ Box Touch/Welbourne Labs P/S- Tubes add soul!
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,453
    Too far out, too far apart and too close to the side walls. You didn't mention it, but there should be no toe in.

    You can build a Dreadnought isolation transformer in order to use an SDA cable. Avel sells an 800VA version that will work.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • stones89stones89 Posts: 225
    Thanks for all the advice guys. OK, I will try 12 inches from front wall, 6.5 feet apart - no toe in. will report back.

    Basis 2200 Signature, Vector 4, Transfiguration Proteus, Allnic H3000, CJ ET5, McIntosh 501's, Thiel CS6, 3.6, MIT EVO, Wywires PC's
  • ptrooperptrooper Posts: 283
    Hello Waxman,well done for bringing this up..I couldn't find any info anywhere in the club regarding this issue .When i came across the same level difference after installing the PR rings in the SDA SRS and 2.3's i decided to install a second layer of Armacell a few days after the first layer had settled in..If i get a problem in the future i will definitely dremel them down!
    waxman wrote: »
    Another question though- I drilled and installed the ring for the passive radiator, and the threaded barrels of the rings protrude from the surface of the lip a little bit. That's going to defeat the purpose of the rings because I won't be able to crank down on the screws to get a nice airtight seal between the radiator and the lip. Suggestions? Common?5u1gl2m2ryz3.jpg
    tz29zoyfwf0c.jpg



    For comparison, on the driver rings the barrels are still recessed in the lip so I will be able to easily get the airtight seal.
  • stones89stones89 Posts: 225
    My 3.2tl’s when used as a conventional speaker, no SDA IC, work best away from all walls including the front wall. Has anyone ever spent serious time experimenting with placement. Every room is different and I have had 2 Thiels and Eggleston Andra II’s in my room and they all sound best close to the same positioning.

    The front wall makes for deeper bass but the upper midrange and upper registers sound a little rough.
    Basis 2200 Signature, Vector 4, Transfiguration Proteus, Allnic H3000, CJ ET5, McIntosh 501's, Thiel CS6, 3.6, MIT EVO, Wywires PC's
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 14,021
    Unless you build a transformer to use with the Mono's you're really defeating the whole purpose of SDA's. SDA's being a sealed design. They are meant to be close to the wall for low end and not toed in. There are much better speakers to use in your situation I would think. It is basically like just taking a driver out of the other speakers you are liking and then not liking what you hear and blaming the speaker. I have seen them between 4"-12" from the back wall anything further out you tend to lose low end. There is a reason Polk put that sticker on the back explaining how to use them.
  • stones89stones89 Posts: 225
    Most manufacturers have recommendations on where to place their speakers but that is not the end all be all in the real world. Even when speakers are designed for certain placement.

    Thiels for example have a very wide dispersion so most prefer the 10 feet apart or more, but not everyone. Closer together brings a richer, more intimate soundstage. Also, it is what you are used to with a rig. I was not able to put the Polks close to front wall when they were my main speakers because the room was unfinished and had a weird configuration. Now that it is finished I can put them anywhere and my memory of why l liked them was out in the room. I am not beyond continuing to play around with placement.

    I still have my Classe stereo amp and would put it in to experiment with the SDA effect but I do not have my IC. Does the transformer affect the sound? Thanks for the feedback Pitdog.
    Basis 2200 Signature, Vector 4, Transfiguration Proteus, Allnic H3000, CJ ET5, McIntosh 501's, Thiel CS6, 3.6, MIT EVO, Wywires PC's
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,453
    Yes, it improves the sound even when used with a stereo amp. Perhaps SDA's are not for you considering how different they sound compared to Thiels.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • stones89stones89 Posts: 225
    I hear you F1nut but I am going to play it all the way out. I found an IC and an Al-1 so now I can find out for sure! I listened to these Polks for many years! Lots of skin or should I say ear damage in these boys. Thanks for your help.

    I might go the transformer route next...yikes...
    Basis 2200 Signature, Vector 4, Transfiguration Proteus, Allnic H3000, CJ ET5, McIntosh 501's, Thiel CS6, 3.6, MIT EVO, Wywires PC's
  • waxmanwaxman Posts: 119
    ptrooper wrote: »
    Hello Waxman,well done for bringing this up..I couldn't find any info anywhere in the club regarding this issue .When i came across the same level difference after installing the PR rings in the SDA SRS and 2.3's i decided to install a second layer of Armacell a few days after the first layer had settled in..If i get a problem in the future i will definitely ...

    Cool ptrooper, I posted in the Larrys ring thread what I ended up doing- pneumatic cutoff 5" tool, a file, and chased the threads to clear out any gunk. Worked like a charm. My dremel was overmatched but the other tool was easy.
  • machonemachone Posts: 1,120
    The threaded barrel must be reduced in length. Adding an extra gasket will not work. I used a belt sander without too much trouble.
    Mojo Audio Illuminati v3>>Quantum Byte w/LMS>>Rpi/PiCoreplayer>> Starlight 7 USB >> Mojo Audio Mystique v2 SE>>ModWright SWL 9.0 SE Signature>>Hafler DH-500 Amp+ (Musical Concepts Fully Modded)>>
    SRS 2.3TL (Fully Modded)...SDA-1A (Fully Modded with Dimensional Tweeter Delete)
    1KVA Dreadnought
    Marantz SA 8005
    Pioneer PLX-1000 Turntable - Shure SC35C/N35X - V15III/VN35HE
    Yamaha TX-540 Tuner...Sony BDP-S570
    Sony PS4

    Separate subpanel with four dedicated 20 amp circuits.
    1. Amplification 2. Analog 3. Digital 4. Video

    "All THAT IS LOST FROM THE SOURCE IS LOST FOREVER"
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 42,453
    edited February 2017
    I've used a Dremel with a cutoff wheel, file and chase the threads as waxman did.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • ptrooperptrooper Posts: 283
    edited February 2017
    Cheers Machone and F1. Will do! I don't have any cabinet leaks but i will definitely remove and cut them down when i receive the Jantzen C-coil for the 2.3's from Vr3 in the near future.Trey is also forwarding a set of Larry's rings with an SDA SRS xover build he has done for me so i'll cut these down before instaling so no dramas !
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