Speaker wire sound
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How to start an argument on this forum:
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Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
How to start an argument on this forum:
Post an opinion or experience.
Wait for X to respond.
Every time
Subject doesn't even matter...
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watch this space -- coming to a theatre near you...
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ken brydson wrote: »
You are correct, can't have anything peaceful with him around.Pio Elete Pro 520
Panamax 5400-EX
Sunfire TGP 5
Micro Seiki DD-40 - Lyra-Dorian and Denon DL-160
PS Audio GCPH phono pre
Sunfire CG 200 X 5
Sunfire CG Sig 405 X 5
OPPO BDP-83 SE
SDA SRS 1.2TL Sonicaps and Mills
Ctr CS1000p
Sur - FX1000 x 4
SUB - SVS PB2-Plus
Workkout room:
Sony Bravia XBR- 32-Inch 1080p
Onkyo TX-DS898
GFA 555
Yamaha DVD-S1800BL/SACD
Ft - SDA 1C
Not being used:
RTi 38's -4
RT55i's - 2
RT25i's -2, using other 2 in shop
LSI 15's
CSi40
PSW 404 -
leftwinger57 wrote: »Tony, your 1st response was awesome. Now for me as a former alarm installer doesn't Ohm's law play a major factor in all of this ? With gauge of wire,length of runs, materials used and I'll throw in efficiency of the speakers and how clean your amp is and the sources being used. My real world experience,I went from Home Depot 14 gu. clear to Audio Quest 14 gu, and settled on BJC Belden 12 gauge for my 2Bs and my TF 350s. Did I hear a difference,yes each time but this is all my wallet will allow.
Yes Lew, we are all aware of Ohms law, but there is simply more to a cable than that. You yourself heard a difference in every cable you tried, that's all that matters isn't it ?
As far as your wallet goes, Lew...we all do the best we can with what we can afford, no shame in that pal. Good sound can be had at any price point and that's a fact. As long as your ears tell you your in heaven, rock on with what ya got buddy boy.
Seems to me your doing just fine anyway. Your trying different things here and there and that's the name of the game. Keep your eyes peeled for those deals and pounce when you can. We've all been where your at.....some of us still are, so what....enjoy the tunes.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
What are the characteristics of speaker wire that makes them sound different from other speaker wire?
Let me answer with key points, shall we?
Construction
Gauge
Terminations
Dielectrics (insulators)
Length
Conductor material
All do something or other to the signal delivered to the speaker from the amplifier. What's best? We don't know. What's worst? Again we don't know but cable makers are trying to come up with new and exciting ways to 1, improve sound and 2, empty the wallter. That's my one and only contribution to this thread. Take as you wish
This is basically what makes a cable "sound" different then another.
So in a given system, you need to have the proper gauge of wire to pass the signal from the amp to the speaker.
It has to be a proper length for given factors
It has to be properly terminated
Then the Materials used and symmetry or relationship to conductors have also play a huge roll here.
Personally and professionally speaking
Speaker wire has a job to do. It's not supposed to "sound" like anything rather then pass the signal along it's way so the speaker can replay the signal it was given from the given source.
So looking at it deeper what happens is a lot of speaker wire that changes the sound is taking something away from the signal or bringing back things that the speaker wire that was used in given system could not replay. It's really that simple.
Speaker wire should not be used to "tune" a system rather be used to "preserve" the system.
There are so many factors to come into play when recreating or replaying an audio experience. Getting the cables right is probably the easiest when you have the right information.
You have to start with the basic fundamentals and standards.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I dunno Dan, to me the "right information" is what my ears tell me, nothing else matters, science wise, or anything else wise.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
What exactly does a "cable-less sound"....sound like ? Would that not be different to each individual ? Therefore....how can one cable apply to so many ? Doesn't make sense to me.
HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Speaker wire should not be used to "tune" a system rather be used to "preserve" the system.
That idea falls flat on it's face when one realized that cables are no different than tubes, DAC's, cartridges, amps, CDP's, pre amps, etc. Each has its own flavor and therefore are used to "tune" a system. To think otherwise is simply naive.
Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
What exactly does a "cable-less sound"....sound like ? Would that not be different to each individual ? Therefore....how can one cable apply to so many ? Doesn't make sense to me.
Tried running my rig cable-less. Couldn't hear a damn thing. Maybe it's just me...
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Oh, humor now...
Just watch a tube amp behave when a speaker cable becomes disconnected. Ouch!ken brydson wrote: »
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You said it not me, however some may consider your comments to be a Freudian slip.
Failing prey to the placebo effect doesn't mean someone is psychotic as you put it. It means they are human and perhaps a little gullible.
No. You and your quack psychiatry said it. There is no such thing as a placebo effect in audio. That is simply something someone made up, and the audiofools run with it. You use that all the time. According to X, nobody hears a difference with cables. It is all imagined.
Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Need more than a beer to agree with your line(s) of BS. Time to move on sparky...
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It is just plain old good advice based on time tested, solid engineering principles, education and experience. Thank you.
**** me...
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In more than just cables. How are some of those educational theories you learned about working out for you in reality?Again, theory and reality very seldom walk hand in hand.
Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
ken brydson wrote: »
I would rather have my wisdom teeth removed via a jackhammer than read X's posts...The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
Welp, I'd say this thread has run it's course. Hopefully the OP is satisfied with the information within these pages. Meanwhile, I think it's time to move on..
Agreed. He just needs to read your post from Page 2 and be done with it. Good, unbiased info you provided.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
As I previously pointed out, no end to this debate. Am with people who hear a difference, experienced it first hand.. At the end of the day like many have said, it's bout getting a good clean signal to the speakers and so just narrow your choices down to 2-3 different cables and take bout 3 meters of each home. Test each for atleast 3 hours each and stick with the one that you like.
When we tested the monster cables vs wire world cables we could hear the difference on the B&W 683's but not the JBL set. At the basic level its all bout how sensitive the speakers are and how cleanly the amp or avr could deliver the signal. And the cables do play a vital role in delivering that signal to the speakers so I don't think it's pseudoscience when people claim a certain cable does better than others. IMHO test it out for yourself, make a first hand comparison and dont start another cable discussion! -
Wire is a component, much like a resistor, capacitor, or inductor. A very simple component, but a component none the less; and as such shouldn't be dismissed as unable to change the tone of music passed thru it. To say that cabls don't matter, is to say that all wire is 100% transparent, no?
Properly sized competent wire should be audibly transparent. Yes and it doesn't need to cost hundreds or thousands of dollars to achieve this for a good typical home system.
Tone controls should be on one's preamp or integrated amp where they belong.
Adding resistors, capacitors and inductors costing a few dollars into a box and connecting this to a speaker cable and then charging several hundreds or thousands of dollars for this contraption may be great for the seller but unwise for the educated consumer.
I am guessing you are referring to MIT cables here?
Have you ever seen the internals of the MIT wire used in their shotgun cables? I can say that I have as I constructed my AI-1 cables from MIT wire. This MIT wire is some of the most complex and required some of the most R&D out of any wire I have personally seen. I have constructed cables using a number of different wires, and the MIT Shotgun (and any MIT wire using the "network boxes" you were referring to) is much much more than the boxes the wires are attached to. That is fact, that I have personally seen. I know of others on the forum that can attest to this fact as well.
Please go buy some MIT shotgun wire and take a look for yourself. Then please come back with a fully educated opinion about MIT speaker wires being comprised of some "resistors, capacitors, and inductors costing a few dollars and connecting this to a speaker cable and then charging several hundreds or thousands of dollars for this contraption may be great for the seller but unwise for the uneducated buyer."
If you have not seen the inside of the Shotgun wire (not just the boxes), the uneducated buyer would include you as well, no? (This is absolutely not an insult, but a fact, if you have never constructed a cable using the Shotgun speaker cable).
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion."![:\](https://forum.polkaudio.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....
"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson
"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
This discussion has been closed.