I think I found my 'end game' speaker
AsSiMiLaTeD
Posts: 11,717
So over the weekend I made a detour to stop by Audio Concepts here in Dallas and spent some time with quite a few speakers. I went in to listen to the Golden Ear line and the new Imagine T2 floorstander from PSB. I listened to several others while in there (ProAc, Rega, Magnepan, etc) and among those were a few pair of Wilson Audio.
I listened to a couple of their floorstanders and they were obviously very good speakers, but did really reach out and grab me. Maybe it's because for me they are prohibitively expensive and my subconcious knew that, but for me they just didn't sound THAT great. So I was ready to file Wilson in the category of "really good expensive speakers that didn't do much for me" (I already have a few in that category) and move along.
Then I heard the Duette.
Wow!!!! These definitely reached out and grabbed me! I spent about an hour with them, but really knew within the first 5 minutes that these were my ultimate speaker. I won't go into a long winded review, the only way I can describe their sound is 'real', as in they are the closest thing I've heard heard to sounding like real life sound. I've listened to 'better' and more expensive speakers, but none of them had this impact on me.
A few minutes in I had a mixed set of emotions as I quicky came to two realizations:
- I have finally found the speaker I've been searching for all these years, my 'end game' speaker so to speak
- now that I've found my perfect speaker, everything else sucks in comparison. There's really no point in me purchasing another speaker - I've head what I want now, anything else would just be a compromise.
They're not cheap (I"m looking at around $20K for speakers, stands, and an amp that will run them), but they're not prohibitively expensive either. They're not something I could do on an impulse buy, but realistically I could save for a year or so and buy them. I"m gonna have a go at it, I've never really found any product that I liked and was expensive enough for me to actually save up for, so this will be an interesting experiment.
Obviously not everyone will have the same impression as I do, but I'd encourage you guys to go listen to these if you can.
I listened to a couple of their floorstanders and they were obviously very good speakers, but did really reach out and grab me. Maybe it's because for me they are prohibitively expensive and my subconcious knew that, but for me they just didn't sound THAT great. So I was ready to file Wilson in the category of "really good expensive speakers that didn't do much for me" (I already have a few in that category) and move along.
Then I heard the Duette.
Wow!!!! These definitely reached out and grabbed me! I spent about an hour with them, but really knew within the first 5 minutes that these were my ultimate speaker. I won't go into a long winded review, the only way I can describe their sound is 'real', as in they are the closest thing I've heard heard to sounding like real life sound. I've listened to 'better' and more expensive speakers, but none of them had this impact on me.
A few minutes in I had a mixed set of emotions as I quicky came to two realizations:
- I have finally found the speaker I've been searching for all these years, my 'end game' speaker so to speak
- now that I've found my perfect speaker, everything else sucks in comparison. There's really no point in me purchasing another speaker - I've head what I want now, anything else would just be a compromise.
They're not cheap (I"m looking at around $20K for speakers, stands, and an amp that will run them), but they're not prohibitively expensive either. They're not something I could do on an impulse buy, but realistically I could save for a year or so and buy them. I"m gonna have a go at it, I've never really found any product that I liked and was expensive enough for me to actually save up for, so this will be an interesting experiment.
Obviously not everyone will have the same impression as I do, but I'd encourage you guys to go listen to these if you can.
Post edited by AsSiMiLaTeD on
Comments
Source 1: PC
Source 2: Rega Apollo
DAC: McIntosh D-100
Preamp: Audio Research LS-26
Power Amp: Pass Labs X-250.5
Speakers: Magnepan 3.7's
HT:
Source 1: HTPC
Source 2: Oppo 103
Pre/Pro: Marantz AV-8801
Power Amp: Bryston 9B-ST
Fronts: Sonus Faber Liuto Towers
Center: Sonus Faber Liuto Smart Center
Surrounds: Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves
Subs: Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
If its one thing I've learned in years in this hobby that I wish I new from the the get go and that is the foundation of which it all sits is indeed a principal and as not subjected to the building upon it, while the foundation does have a set limit with in its given specs which the rest sits its indeed the reference point. Bare with me while I explain this Mambo Jumbo I speak of,( ignore all of this if already addressed, and go for it:cheesygrin:)
1.) Room acoustics , Bass traps ,1st reflection points and flutter and echo.
2.) Dedicated Ac lines to your gear, Ac conditioning and decent cables.
Of all my years and many Saturday afternoons siting and listening to great setups(my use to be end game speaker as well, Hales Transcendence 8, r.i.p:sad:) My gear as modest as it is has indeed world class sound and enven makes me blush at times :redface: This understanding has afforded me the opportunity to spend audio bucks on smaller refinements to the setup and "Max out" gear before moving on. But hey! the Duettes are nice have fun!
Also, there is no end game in this hobby : ) They will always come with something better. And sometimes u just get tired and want to change, even if not for the better..
I'm not gonna buy anymore equipment right now because the world is coming to an end in December so I'll save my money for that. :eek:
Why in december? I myself think the world is coming to an end, and soon, but December? Don't know about that..
FYI, the Duets are the only Wilson speaker I would consider owning, the rest are severely over rated. You realize they were designed to be placed close to boundaries, right?
Given that the speakers you like were designed to kind of be placed anywhere may explain why you liked them...
Vr3Mods.com ///// Version3Audio.com
"No, that's silly talk. Dude, you can't possibly be this audio dumb so quit the act." - Doro
As for their towers, I find them harsh in the lower treble/upper mids. Older listeners with deficiencies in that frequency range may enjoy them though.
back to OP - i don't believe the current passive speaker in an mdf box design has any end game speakers at any price point. It's been beaten to the death. Somebody will come up with a new design altogether that that will make the frequency response is speakers have similar graphs than the amps. That will be a transparent speaker.
Saying that it's "too hard" to pursue your dreams is no different than admitting to yourself that you are too lazy to achieve them.
“If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
NJOY! Assimilated....just enjoy it man, don't be a Solid Squal.
Mark
There is a set of these right now on Audiogon, with the stands included, all the shipping boxes, manuals. The asking price is $6900...so you could pretty much get them for less. Just letting you know.
There's nothing "magic" about tube amps. Just like SS amps, there are good and bad designs, and in fact many have distortion similar to that of SS amps. As for even order harmonics, unlike the harshness of a poorly designed or clipping SS amp, many find them pleasing. I'm glad you finally figured out with synergy is. :cheesygrin:
But even at that, they never reached out, and went WOW..these are great speakers. They were good, but not that good.
I would go back a couple of times, bring your own source matrial, even your own CD player or what ever your useing.
See if there still thrilling you. What you thought was wonderful one day..may not be so great in a week, and if it source material you know first hand...just may not be what you thought.
I went back in there again yesterday after work with my lossless files on the Macbook Air and they already had a similar setup and let me hook it right in. I didn't get to spend too much time, but enough to run a few of my test tracks. The sound was nothing short of spectacular, and again I had the same thought - This is the best speaker I've ever heard.
I did not get to test but do have concerns about the speaker's ability to handle poorly recorded material. It seems like a very transparent speaker and poorly recorded material may not work well. I won't know until I listen I guess.
Another reason I need to listen more is because I'm having a hard time identifying exactly why I like the speaker so much. Is it that it's really that fantastic of a speaker or is it that I have a certain sound signature I"m looking for and this speaker just happens to nail it, regardless of how 'good' it actually is?
I"m not sure which it is, but I'll have plenty of time to listen and know for sure what I'm getting into before I can scrounge the money together to buy it. Those guys at Audio Concepts are going to get tired of me...
I've read this thread three or four times now and each time I come across this post I literally start laughing out loud. Hilarious.
Two Channel Setup:
Speakers: Wharfedale Opus 2-3
Integrated Amp: Krell S-300i
DAC: Arcam irDac
Source: iMac
Remote Control: iPad Mini
3.2 Home Theater Setup:
Fronts: Klipsch RP-160M
Center: Klipsch RP-160M
Subwoofer: SVS PB12NSD (X 2)
AVR: Yamaha Aventage RX-A2030
Blu Ray: Sony BDP-S790
TV Source: DirecTV Genie
If thats were all your music is..then i guess fine. But these people must have a turntable...play some vinyl on these. Then see how you like them.
If the speaker makes poorly recorded music sound like poorly recorded music then it is doing its job.
Lumin X1
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.
This is the issue I ran into with my current horns. High levels of detail and clarity are great until you playback poor recordings; very well recorded material like Chesky Records makes everything worth it.
Almost 75+% of manufacturers at industry shows use computer sources and when you wouldn't know the difference. They're not playing lowfi MP3's hoss.
High end tube CD player LoL. This is exactly the kind of stuff that ticks me off. The only high end thing with a tube cd player is it's cost. Nothing else. Almost all decent CD players reproduce sound 1:1 with the source. Stereophille.com has reviews and bench tests on many of them, go take a look and tell me where their flaw is.
And vinyl?? It is amazing that there are still people that believe that vinyl has some kind of superiority over any digital format. It's like trying to pull science out of the bible. Whatever you want to record on vinyl will always be better recorded digitally. Unless the screeching has some santimental value for you..
Time to move on, no?
Your ignorance knows no bounds, I see. Do us all a favor, flush yourself.
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
Lumin X1
Sony XA-5400ES SACD
Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on preamp, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits.