OPPO 93 or 95 via 7.1 analog.
Comments
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The Mind set isn't just run HDMI , it's about having one cable do everything , cleaner install. You can get a AVR or Pre that has as good or better DAC's then the Oppo. Not to mention the sheer cost of 3 pairs of good quality analog connections was also in mind. Figure if he purchased 3 pairs of above average IC's for 200 each , thats 600 bucks just to connect the player , you still have to purchase a HDMI cable. Personally I would apply that 600 bucks plus the sale of the NAD towards a new NAD like the T785HD which is a beautiful receiver.This is the mindset that just completely baffles me. Since when is using analog interconnects "going backwards?" If the DAC in the Oppo is better than the DAC in the AVR, it would be an absolute waste to send the signal via HDMI to the AVR instead of letting the Oppo's better DAC do the job. It's all about achieving the best sound quality. And with digital sources, no choice is more critical to the end results than that of the DAC.
What gets me is all these threads I read about questionable improvements (voodoo, if you will) but when it comes to the absolute basics, there is disagreement? Don't worry 'bout the DAC, just use HDMI regardless? Baffling.
pearsall001, you're doing it right. Carry on.
It's not wrong to do what Phil is doing , It's perfectly fine , I'm just pointing out a better long term purchase.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
DAC's in the mid to high end receivers will sound much better than the dac in the oppo. I've used different receivers and blu ray players and none of them sounded better using the Analog outs. If he buys a receiver in line with his system he'll definitely notice a difference. He should'nt knock it till he trys it.
Basically my point exactly.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
It's exactly what was on my mind when I first read the setup.Although not quite an apple to apple comparison, this is close enough to be relevant. In the January 2012 issue of the absolute sound there is a review of the Oppo BDP-95, and on page 34 there is this quote.
?Odd though this may sound, the BDP-95 deserves ? and in a sense almost demands ? to be used with very high-quality cables that could potentially cost as much (or more) than the player does.?
This is just talking about the stereo output. Do the math for the 7 channel output. Although the BDP-93 is not quite as good as the 95, it still needs good analog cables to get the signal from the player to the destination. Or, you can use an HDMI with a decent AVR to provide equal or better sound, and more flexibility with other sources.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
The only flaw in your logic is HDMI does not pick up interference like a analog cable can especially a unbalanced connection. Now if 6 channel out on the Blu ray player was balanced , then the analog signal would be better protected.The Oppo produces sound quality so good that this particular reviewer thought it would require cables of superb quality to be worthy of carrying the excellent signal coming from the Oppo's analog outputs. That sounds like an argument for the Oppo's analog outputs. I don't see how you make the jump from this to the conclusion that using HDMI to carry the digital signal to the built-in DAC of an AVR would provide equal or better sound.
Ironic. I've been accused of being too cheap to chase after that elusive last "0.01%" of sound quality, but suddenly my method is too expensive.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Just the sort of thing I've come to expect here at CP. Keep up the good work.
Then leave nobody is keeping you here, but Jesse is right you don't have any experience with the Oppo let alone good cables so why comment on it?
Out of all the posts in this thread your the only one nit picking and wanting to stir the pot and bitching about CP and this is not the only thread you have done this in. You are borderline trolling IMO!! If CP isn't working for you well you know where the door is.. -
Then leave nobody is keeping you here, but Jesse is right you don't have any experience with the Oppo let alone good cables so why comment on it?
Out of all the posts in this thread your the only one nit picking and wanting to stir the pot and bitching about CP and this is not the only thread you have done this in. You are borderline trolling IMO!! If CP isn't working for you well you know where the door is..
You're free to your opinion, as am I. I don't throw insults around, nor do I make unfounded assumptions about people I have never met.
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Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII -
The only flaw in your logic is HDMI does not pick up interference like a analog cable can especially a unbalanced connection. Now if 6 channel out on the Blu ray player was balanced , then the analog signal would be better protected.
It's not as if analog ICs are inherently flawed. If they are picking up interference, then there is a problem somewhere that needs to be addressed. IMO balanced connections add a level of complexity to the signal path and should therefore only be used when they are needed, as in very long runs. Just as HDMI is not inherently better than analog, balanced is not inherently better than unbalanced.
If you think you can find an AVR with DACs up to par with that of the Oppo's, more power to you. But for the OP and myself, we've already got excellent preamps that were future-proofed when we bought them by way of the 7.1 analog inputs. Pairing them with the Oppo and its superb DACs makes perfect sense, IMO much more sense than throwing out the preamp and using half an AVR as a preamp just to avoid a few cables. And when the next newest codec comes out to replace Dolby TrueHD and DTS:MA or when the next version of HDMI comes out, those of you running HDMI to the AVR will have obsolete AVRs again, whereas the OP and I will only have to replace one source.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
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Well I must say, as usual by the time a thread hits the 2-3 page mark it's pretty much headed for the proverbial ****. This thread did not disappoint. LOL!!! My question has been answered and a lot of good information was given along with a lot of not so good information. I especially liked the part where it was suggested that you need "very high quality expensive cabling" to extract any sort of decent sound from the Oppo player. Whatever the hell that means can be anyone's guess. So for now I'm all set & maybe down the road a ways when the whole HDMI quality issues have been resolved I might venture into that arena."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Yeah Phil, you've been around the block a time or two with this stuff and it always ends the same. Bottomline, in audio, there's more than one way to skin that cat. Nothing wrong with either way. End of story.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Yeah Phil, you've been around the block a time or two with this stuff and it always ends the same. Bottomline, in audio, there's more than one way to skin that cat. Nothing wrong with either way. End of story.
Amen Tony!!!! Hey, and a very Merry Christmas to you & your family!!! Enjoy yourself."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Well said.Like BlueFox said, that is entirely dependent on the DACs being compared. You cannot simply state that using an AVR with HDMI is the preferred method simply because it's HDMI. The only thing you accomplish by running HDMI to the AVR is that you are passing the digital signal to the AVR's DAC to convert it to analog instead of using the Oppo's DAC to convert it to analog. Sure, this uses fewer cables, but which method sounds better depends on which unit has the better DAC. Oppo puts a lot of thought and expense into their units so I definitely would not be so quick to dismiss using the Oppo's DAC over using HDMI. -
Back atcha Phil, you do the same. Word on the street is you were a good boy this year and Santa has something special lined up for you. Also, word on the street is Santa is a pervert, so take that for what you will.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Pervert or not Santa is the man this year....that 65" Panny 3D Plasma he brought is the bomb!!!!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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Toolfan66 wrote:Out of all the posts in this thread your the only one nit picking and wanting to stir the pot and bitching about CP and this is not the only thread you have done this in.
Bingo!You're free to your opinion, as am I. I don't throw insults around, nor do I make unfounded assumptions about people I have never met.
But your opinions are not based on personal experience, that's the difference.
Yes, you do and my stating that you're a poser wasn't an unfounded assumption, it's a fact based on your words.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
First, I figured it out, lol. ACR is Anthem Room Correction. Not an Anthem fan...anyway...It's not as if analog ICs are inherently flawed. If they are picking up interference, then there is a problem somewhere that needs to be addressed. IMO balanced connections add a level of complexity to the signal path and should therefore only be used when they are needed, as in very long runs. Just as HDMI is not inherently better than analog, balanced is not inherently better than unbalanced.
Hold the phone! Balance IS better. I noticed a vast improvement when I went to xlr. Those cables are .5 meter long. When you take into account the rest of whats going on in there I can't agree to call 1 extra wire in an IC "complex".Too much **** to list.... -
^ Actually, ARC is Anthem Room Correction. :razz:
ACR made some fast cars for Dodge... :cheesygrin: -
^ Actually, ARC is Anthem Room Correction. :razz:
ACR made some fast cars for Dodge... :cheesygrin:
What he said^^Too much **** to list.... -
Here is the bottom line ..... You wont have any room correction in place and this is going to equal not so good sound regardless of the dacs
You need room correction, you cant do what a sophisticated auto calibration system can do with any spl meter and in most cases hdmi or a digital connection is needed for audio auto calibration -
Hold the phone! Balance IS better. I noticed a vast improvement when I went to xlr. Those cables are .5 meter long. When you take into account the rest of whats going on in there I can't agree to call 1 extra wire in an IC "complex".
I knew someone would take issue with this. It's not the one extra wire in the XLR that adds the complexity to the signal path, it's what that extra wire does and what the receiving input must actively do to the signal it receives from the XLR. Unbalanced is a simpler signal path with less components. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying balanced is crap compared to unbalanced. Each has its application. I'm just saying that if it (unbalanced) isn't broke, absolutely no reason to introduce more circuitry to the signal path. If balanced sounds better on your system, then of course go balanced. I was only taking issue with the assumption that balanced will always be better than unbalanced, which is not true.
RT-12, CS350-LS, PSW-300, Infinity Overture 1, Monoprice RC-65i
Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII -
polkfarmboy wrote: »Here is the bottom line ..... You wont have any room correction in place and this is going to equal not so good sound regardless of the dacs
You need room correction, you cant do what a sophisticated auto calibration system can do with any spl meter and in most cases hdmi or a digital connection is needed for audio auto calibration
That's bull. I have NO room correction enabled on my setup which is MCACC and the sound is great. The sound is TERRIBLE when it is enabled. So what may work well for some may not work well for others. What MCACC does well is measure and configure distances to help with calibration. And in no way am I saying the MCACC is the end all, I'm sure then Anthem products is very good. -
polkfarmboy wrote: »Here is the bottom line ..... You wont have any room correction in place and this is going to equal not so good sound regardless of the dacs
You need room correction, you cant do what a sophisticated auto calibration system can do with any spl meter and in most cases hdmi or a digital connection is needed for audio auto calibration
Room correction is not the end-all be-all. Again, it's a matter of whether or not you need the fix that room correction provides, and if you want to fix that with an active room correction processor or by addressing the modes of the room directly through treatments, or perhaps a combination of both. But if you do need active room correction, you do not need to have that room correction circuitry built in to the AVR, just as you do not need the DAC to be built in to the AVR. There are external room correction modules that are just as good or better than what you will find built in to an AVR. You could even do it the old-fashioned way and use an EQ to knock down the peaks in your room, and possibly come up with even better results. Doesn't have to be automatic to be good, and some will argue that you can achieve better results doing it yourself, as you can apply as much or as little house curve as you want as opposed to using whatever the programmer of the room correction component thought it should be.
Either way you are introducing more complexity to the signal path, for what that's worth. If you don't have room modes, or if you prefer to fix your room modes with treatments instead of active equalization, then there is no need for active room correction.
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Adcom GFA-545II, GFA-6000, Outlaw Audio 990, Netgear NeoTV
Denon DCM-460, DMD-1000, Sony BDP-360, Bravia KDL-40Z4100/S
Monster AVL-300, HTS-2500 MKII -
polkfarmboy wrote: »Here is the bottom line ..... You wont have any room correction in place and this is going to equal not so good sound regardless of the dacs
You need room correction, you cant do what a sophisticated auto calibration system can do with any spl meter and in most cases hdmi or a digital connection is needed for audio auto calibration
Huh!!!!
pearsall001 wrote: »Well I must say, as usual by the time a thread hits the 2-3 page mark it's pretty much headed for the proverbial ****. This thread did not disappoint. LOL!!!
I just had to requote myself from a previous post. I called it didn't I. :razz:
:cheesygrin:
"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up. -
Advanced room correction can do wonders for sound. With the Onkyo units I've owned, it helped the low end a little, but overall wasn't a large improvement. With the Marantz AV7005, it was a night and day difference. Everything is now much more coherent and the low end sounds fantastic in comparison to before."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Huh?Other than a couple of posts the discussion has been reasonably civil and topical atleast by CP standards.pearsall001 wrote: »I just had to requote myself from a previous post. I called it didn't I. :razz::cheesygrin: -
I knew someone would take issue with this. It's not the one extra wire in the XLR that adds the complexity to the signal path, it's what that extra wire does and what the receiving input must actively do to the signal it receives from the XLR. Unbalanced is a simpler signal path with less components. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying balanced is crap compared to unbalanced. Each has its application. I'm just saying that if it (unbalanced) isn't broke, absolutely no reason to introduce more circuitry to the signal path. If balanced sounds better on your system, then of course go balanced. I was only taking issue with the assumption that balanced will always be better than unbalanced, which is not true.
At this point I can't tell who is arguing what point but it would seem to me that balanced would be more accurate for room correction. Any time a processor can gather more information to do its work it should come up wit h a better outcome.
If you'll excuse me I have to go buy a 93....
MY .02Too much **** to list.... -
Huh?Other than a couple of posts the discussion has been reasonably civil and topical atleast by CP standards.
True - aside from a couple of cheap pokes in the eye....relatively 'tame'.
Hopefully the OP has some balanced info to make up his own mind.
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Huh?Other than a couple of posts the discussion has been reasonably civil and topical atleast by CP standards.
Civility is just fine, guys here are pretty good at keeping things in check. It's the off topic wandering that seems to get away from the original question that was asked.Erik Tracy wrote: »True - aside from a couple of cheap pokes in the eye....relatively 'tame'.
Hopefully the OP has some balanced info to make up his own mind.
Yes indeed, I got all the info I needed."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
